NYC train consists


Terry Link
 

I have just completed taking the notes from 21 NYC conductor books and
posting the train consists to my website.  These cover freight trains
operating between Cleveland ( Collinwood ) and Toledo on the NYC mainline.
Most trains are through freights, though there are a few MofW trains, way
freights, express trains and Norwalk branch trains mixed in.
 
In total - there are 641 consists covering 46264 pieces of equipment from
356 companies - primarily from the 1940s including some from the war years.
Included are some new car and locomotive deliveries mixed in, such as a UP
challenger and NH PS1 boxcars being sent east with their first loads before
seeing NH rails.  There are some
Canadian cars being used between US points.  Horses being transported in
regular boxcars.  Stock cars being used for loads other than livestock.
There is one case of a car being partially unloaded at one location and then
carrying on to a second location.  There is a case of 2 cars from 2
different railroads with the same car number next to each other.  Many cases
of consecutive car numbers being next to each other and not being new cars
on delivery.
 
There are a few pieces of equipment that I have not been able to identify
and maybe someone on here can help:
 
There are 3 cranes listed with reporting marks of B.C.Co. #3560  FCC #6 and
KCC #2895.
1 piece of equipment marked as air compressor on own wheels with reporting
mark PS #1423.
2 flat cars with DCX reporting marks - cars #11 and #12 from November 1947
destined for Hopedale
MKT #1070 marked as a boxcar - from September 1946
NS #2099 marked as a hopper - from August 1947
 
 
You can find these consists at:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-toledo.htm
 
I also included an excel file with all the 46264 pieces of equipment in one
file that you can download and sort and search as you like.  This can be
downloaded from the main consist page.
 
 
You can find a quick summary of all reporting marks found with car counts
here:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-reporting-marks.htm
 
 
Please note:  I'm not going to pretend there are no mistakes in the files.
The handwriting in the books was difficult to decipher at
times as quite a few letters look similar  ( such as  i,j,g and q ) and
overwriting to make corrections, etc..  There were many errors in the
original
books and I have corrected many of them, however, I am sure there are still
many errors in the files.  I have not tried to correct any destination name
spelling mistakes that may have been in the original books.  Though I have
tried to match up the car numbers with legit car series in ORERs for the
railroads and some private owners - I have not checked all private owner
rosters to verify car numbers.
 
If you find errors and can provide corrections - please feel free to contact
me OFFLIST   -  nyc@...
 
Hope this historical information will be useful to some of you.
 
Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario
www.canadasouthern.com


Schuyler Larrabee
 

I am awed.  Wow.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:52 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] NYC train consists

 

 

I have just completed taking the notes from 21 NYC conductor books and

posting the train consists to my website.  These cover freight trains

operating between Cleveland ( Collinwood ) and Toledo on the NYC mainline.

Most trains are through freights, though there are a few MofW trains, way

freights, express trains and Norwalk branch trains mixed in.

 

In total - there are 641 consists covering 46264 pieces of equipment from

356 companies - primarily from the 1940s including some from the war years.

Included are some new car and locomotive deliveries mixed in, such as a UP

challenger and NH PS1 boxcars being sent east with their first loads before

seeing NH rails.  There are some

Canadian cars being used between US points.  Horses being transported in

regular boxcars.  Stock cars being used for loads other than livestock.

There is one case of a car being partially unloaded at one location and then

carrying on to a second location.  There is a case of 2 cars from 2

different railroads with the same car number next to each other.  Many cases

of consecutive car numbers being next to each other and not being new cars

on delivery.

 

There are a few pieces of equipment that I have not been able to identify

and maybe someone on here can help:

 

There are 3 cranes listed with reporting marks of B.C.Co. #3560  FCC #6 and

KCC #2895.

1 piece of equipment marked as air compressor on own wheels with reporting

mark PS #1423.

2 flat cars with DCX reporting marks - cars #11 and #12 from November 1947

destined for Hopedale

MKT #1070 marked as a boxcar - from September 1946

NS #2099 marked as a hopper - from August 1947

 

 

You can find these consists at:

 

I also included an excel file with all the 46264 pieces of equipment in one

file that you can download and sort and search as you like.  This can be

downloaded from the main consist page.

 

 

You can find a quick summary of all reporting marks found with car counts

here:

 

 

Please note:  I'm not going to pretend there are no mistakes in the files.

The handwriting in the books was difficult to decipher at

times as quite a few letters look similar  ( such as  i,j,g and q ) and

overwriting to make corrections, etc..  There were many errors in the

original

books and I have corrected many of them, however, I am sure there are still

many errors in the files.  I have not tried to correct any destination name

spelling mistakes that may have been in the original books.  Though I have

tried to match up the car numbers with legit car series in ORERs for the

railroads and some private owners - I have not checked all private owner

rosters to verify car numbers.

 

If you find errors and can provide corrections - please feel free to contact

me OFFLIST   -  nyc@...

 

Hope this historical information will be useful to some of you.

 

Terry Link

Bramalea, Ontario


Guy Wilber
 

Terry wrote:

"I also included an excel file with all the 46264 pieces of equipment in one file that you can download and sort and search as you like.  This can be downloaded from the main consist page."

Thank you, Terry.  Nicely done!  One question; did you designate auto cars with an "A" or are they grouped in with all box cars?  

Kindest Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Clark Propst
 

Great info. Thanks so much for transcribing it!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Terry Link
 

 
 
 
 

Thank you, Terry.  Nicely done!  One question; did you designate auto cars with an "A" or are they grouped in with all box cars? 

 
 
The originals notes marked them as boxcars – so I left them that way
 
Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario
www.canadasouthern.com


Guy Wilber
 

Terry wrote:

"The originals notes marked them as boxcars – so I left them that way"

Thank you, Terry.

Kindest Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Dave Nelson
 

Having done similar things I can say “That, Sir, is a lot of work you’ve done”.



I took the rows from the last 30 trains, cut away the home road NYC boxcars (23% of all boxcars, about what I’d expect), sorted and counted the remaining 820cars… about 75-80% of what I consider an adequate sample size). Rather than continue I’ve done enough for today.



Sorting out the foreign road boxcars I created this table… the columns being Road Initial, How many times it was noted in the sample, the percentage that road initial is out of the 820 foreign road boxcars. I also stripped out the ampersand and renamed a few names to their proper initials.




PRR

82

10.00%


MILW

40

4.88%


ATSF

38

4.63%


BO

31

3.78%


CNW

30

3.66%


IC

30

3.66%


NP

29

3.54%


GN

28

3.41%


CO

27

3.29%


CBQ

26

3.17%


RI

24

2.93%


SOU

24

2.93%


ERIE

21

2.56%


WAB

19

2.32%


ACL

18

2.20%


SP

18

2.20%


UP

18

2.20%


LN

17

2.07%


SAL

17

2.07%


RDG

16

1.95%


PLE

15

1.83%


CP

14

1.71%


NW

14

1.71%


SOO

14

1.71%


CN

12

1.46%


PM

12

1.46%


DLW

10

1.22%


MP

10

1.22%


SLSF

8

0.98%


DRGW

7

0.85%


GTW

7

0.85%


NKP

7

0.85%


WM

7

0.85%


CG

6

0.73%


CNJ

6

0.73%


GMO

6

0.73%


NCSL

6

0.73%


NH

6

0.73%


SSW

6

0.73%


LV

5

0.61%


TNO

5

0.61%


AA

4

0.49%


BAR

4

0.49%


CGW

4

0.49%


CTHSE

4

0.49%


DTI

4

0.49%


IGN

4

0.49%


TP

4

0.49%


ALTON

3

0.37%


DH

3

0.37%


EJE

3

0.37%


KCS

3

0.37%


MEC

3

0.37%


OSL

3

0.37%


StLBM

3

0.37%


BM

2

0.24%


CIL

2

0.24%


CMO

2

0.24%


ITC

2

0.24%


LNE

2

0.24%


MKT

2

0.24%


MStL

2

0.24%


NS

2

0.24%


RFP

2

0.24%


WLE

2

0.24%


BA

1

0.12%


CCCSTL

1

0.12%


CCO

1

0.12%


CMO

1

0.12%


CMStP

1

0.12%


CNOR

1

0.12%


CV

1

0.12%


GA

1

0.12%


GBW

1

0.12%


IHB

1

0.12%


MC

1

0.12%


MI

1

0.12%


OWRN

1

0.12%


PMKY

1

0.12%


WP

1

0.12%





I havn’t compared this to fleet totals but just looking at the list of initials I’d say it appears to conform to what I would expect to see… MILW is probably high (esp. for the fluke appearance of several CTHSE cars and re-initialing them to MILW pushes it up higher). Of particular note are CP and CN which had huge fleets of boxcars… considerably reduced in this sample – again, as expected.



The obvious failure of any hypothesis is the one about nearest exchange railroads being highest… whole lot of road initials there at the top that are nowhere near western Ohio.



I’ll try and add more cars in a few days, see if anything changes.



Dave Nelson


Dave Nelson
 

Here is the ordered list of the US Boxcar Fleet - the NYC is zeroed out here
because for this set of data it is the home road and so it doesn't count. I
can see now there is a bit more variation that I first thought. It might
lessen with a larger sample. Oh. that reminds me, there is a car cod I'm
not sure about - DD - what is that?




PRR

10.05%


NYC

0.00%


ATSF

5.31%


MILW

4.86%


BO

4.34%


SP

4.21%


SOU

3.96%


UP

3.57%


CNW

3.52%


CBQ

3.27%


GN

3.24%


IC

3.19%


NP

2.96%


RI

2.76%


MP

2.74%


CO

2.14%


SLSF

2.00%


ERIE

1.83%


WAB

1.76%


LN

1.76%


ACL

1.72%


SAL

1.43%


NW

1.34%


SOO

1.33%


NKP

1.31%


GTW

1.30%


DLW

1.16%


RDG

1.16%


TNO

1.13%


PM

1.07%


CN

0.99%


GMO

0.94%


NH

0.91%


LV

0.85%


CP

0.83%


MKT

0.79%


DRGW

0.67%


TP

0.65%


PLE

0.62%


SSW

0.56%


CGW

0.55%


NCSL

0.54%


CMO

0.51%


MEC

0.51%


CG

0.46%


KCS

0.44%


BM

0.42%


WLE

0.40%


IGN

0.39%


DTI

0.38%


DH

0.37%


GCL

0.36%


MSL

0.35%


WM

0.32%


BAR

0.31%


WP

0.30%


SPS

0.27%


CNJ

0.24%


ITC

0.22%


EJE

0.22%


GA

0.22%


CRP

0.21%


CEI

0.18%


LA

0.17%


ONT

0.17%


CIL

0.16%


BA

0.16%


NS

0.15%


IHB

0.15%


BLE

0.15%


FWD

0.15%


LNE

0.14%


AA

0.14%


CV

0.14%


CRR

0.13%


THB

0.10%


CWC

0.09%


NJII

0.09%


PE

0.09%


P&E

0.08%


RUT

0.08%


CS

0.07%


ACY

0.07%


CIM

0.07%


DMIR

0.05%


DSA

0.05%


GF

0.05%


MI

0.05%


CASO

0.04%


GBW

0.04%


C&G

0.04%


GATX

0.04%


CCCS

0.04%


SA

0.04%


RFP

0.04%


BS

0.04%


IN

0.04%


NB

0.03%


FEC

0.03%


DM

0.03%


PWV

0.03%


TC

0.03%


VGN

0.03%


SHPX

0.02%


MC

0.02%


RS

0.02%


MSC

0.02%


NWP

0.02%


AC

0.02%


MWR

0.02%


WFS

0.01%


LSI

0.01%


QC

0.01%


HC

0.01%


AD

0.01%


ELS

0.01%


CR

0.01%


DTS

0.01%


SN

0.01%


CNL

0.01%


MRS

0.01%


NLC

0.01%


CTN

0.01%


NYSW

0.01%


OW

0.01%


BAP

0.00%


SL

0.00%


QAP

0.00%


KGB

0.00%


PHD

0.00%


WSS

0.00%


LSBC

0.00%


PEP

0.00%


IWC

0.00%


MPA

0.00%


TPW

0.00%


SI

0.00%


URR

0.00%


AN

0.00%


WCFN

0.00%


CCT

0.00%


MNE

0.00%


FDDM

0.00%


LC

0.00%


WIF

0.00%


BAM

0.00%


KOG

0.00%


SBK

0.00%


PS

0.00%


BRI

0.00%


CHV

0.00%


NN

0.00%


CIC

0.00%


KT

0.00%


TCG

0.00%


TG

0.00%


TM

0.00%


WIM

0.00%


DNE

0.00%


DWP

0.00%


HPCX

0.00%


HPD

0.00%


SS

0.00%


LOPG

0.00%


MV

0.00%


PMP

0.00%


SDAE

0.00%


BRC

0.00%


DUPX

0.00%


LHR

0.00%


MBR

0.00%


MDW

0.00%


MR

0.00%


WA

0.00%


WTR

0.00%


CWI

0.00%


MSCX

0.00%


NOR

0.00%


SG

0.00%


SLOF

0.00%





Dave Nelson


Cyril Durrenberger
 

Thanks for doing this. I would like to see the percent from NYC as that would give us the amount from the home road.

Cyril Durrenberger


Guy Wilber
 

Double Deck stock car, Dave.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

On Jul 19, 2015, at 3:05 PM, "'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@att.net [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Oh… that reminds me, there is a car cod I’m not sure about – DD – what is that?


Dave Nelson
 

IIRC it was a tiny bit below 23% Cyril.

Given the NYC was so big it is certainly plausible that variation away from
that number would occur elsewhere. ... again, IIRC the ICC data averaged out
at around 20-21% across all roads.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC train consists

Thanks for doing this. I would like to see the percent from NYC as that
would give us the amount from the home road.

Cyril Durrenberger


------------------------------------
Posted by: Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger <durrecj@sbcglobal.net>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Eric Hansmann
 

Dave,

I noticed a few car listings on your data that are NYC System affiliates; PLE, BA, CCCSTL, CNOR, MC, and PMKY. These account for 20 cars but I'm uncertain how much independence these lines had at the time of these lists. I had thought the CNOR and CCCSTL were fully merged into the NYCS. 

I guess this becomes a question of where do you draw the line. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

On Jul 19, 2015, at 7:50 PM, 'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

IIRC it was a tiny bit below 23% Cyril.  

Given the NYC was so big it is certainly plausible that variation away from
that number would occur elsewhere. ... again, IIRC the ICC data averaged out
at around 20-21% across all roads.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC train consists

Thanks for doing this.  I would like to see the percent from NYC as that
would give us the amount from the home road.

Cyril Durrenberger


------------------------------------
Posted by: Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger <durrecj@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links





------------------------------------
Posted by: "Dave Nelson" <lake_muskoka@...>
------------------------------------


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Cyril Durrenberger
 

Thanks,

Cyril Durrenberger
--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7/19/15, 'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@att.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC train consists
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 19, 2015, 8:50 PM


 









IIRC it was a tiny bit below 23% Cyril.



Given the NYC was so big it is certainly plausible that
variation away from

that number would occur elsewhere. ... again, IIRC the ICC
data averaged out

at around 20-21% across all roads.



Dave Nelson



-----Original Message-----

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]


Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:32 PM

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC train consists



Thanks for doing this. I would like to see the percent from
NYC as that

would give us the amount from the home road.



Cyril Durrenberger



------------------------------------

Posted by: Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger
<durrecj@sbcglobal.net>

------------------------------------



------------------------------------



Yahoo Groups Links













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Dave Nelson
 

It’s been so long I don’t recall exactly what rule Tim and I followed.  I do know I always recorded the car initial and not the corporate name.   I always recorded the initials in the book as-is and later on entered a second column with what I thought the initials meant.  More than a few times I came to realize early conclusions could be wrong).

 

What I was always trying to do is cull out the excess result of cars that might be sitting around somewhere in protective service – that is to say not circulating in the national pool – that could get a load at any time, as well as purely local traffic.  To do that I suspect I did not ever consolidate by corporate identity when I was aware that the “sub-road” reported to the ICC on their own – so if I could see that, oh, the P&LE did their own reporting to ICC I would not have considered a consolidation of PLE with NYC, but looking instead at the Cincinnati Northern… weren’t they gone as a legal entity by 1948? Might the reported cars in this list simply be wandering souls not yet redeemed and repainted?  If so then adding their numbers into NYC is an arguable case.

 

I suppose another way of looking at it is this:  were the meaning of the car initials matched someplace by a the same name on a locomotive? If yes, don’t consolidate them with their parent roadname; If no, think about the specific issues for a while.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 7:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC train consists

 




Dave,

 

I noticed a few car listings on your data that are NYC System affiliates; PLE, BA, CCCSTL, CNOR, MC, and PMKY. These account for 20 cars but I'm uncertain how much independence these lines had at the time of these lists. I had thought the CNOR and CCCSTL were fully merged into the NYCS. 



I guess this becomes a question of where do you draw the line. 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 


richard haave
 

Milw may be "High" due to their part ownership (with NYC and CNW) of IHB.


Dick Haave


Scott H. Haycock
 

Something I've noticed as I go through these consists is, every box car listed as "merchandise" has a 10 ton load weight. Considering that almost all of the other box cars have a more specific description of their lading, would it be safe to assume that these cars carry l.c.l. loads? Is the 10 ton listing just a shortcut to actually weighing these cars, as the nature of l.c.l. would almost never approach the load limit of the car? 

Scott Haycock




Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote :

I suppose another way of looking at it is this:  were the meaning of the car initials matched someplace by a the same name on a locomotive? If yes, don’t consolidate them with their parent roadname; If no, think about the specific issues for a while.

 

Dave Nelson

=============


The best source for determination of this might be the ORER. In any given issue, each road's listing will state in the header, "Cars of this company are marked..." and will list all the reporting marks then in use by that road. This automatically adjusts for fallen flags, as the road will continue to list the old mark as long as they still have cars that have not been re-lettered.


Dennis Storzek


Guy Wilber
 

Scott wrote:
 
"Something I've noticed as I go through these consists is, every box car listed as "merchandise" has a 10 ton load weight. Considering that almost all of the other box cars have a more specific description of their lading, would it be safe to assume that these cars carry l.c.l. loads? Is the 10 ton listing just a shortcut to actually weighing these cars, as the nature of l.c.l. would almost never approach the load limit of the car?"
 
 
The minimum weight a car could transport in LCL service was controlled by the Office of Defense Transportation beginning with the issuance of General Order ODT No. 1 on May 1, 1942.  Between May 1 and July 1, 1942, the minimum was specified as 6 tons.  From July 1 to September 1, 1942, the minimum was increased to 8 tons.  From September 1, 1942, the minimum was increased to 10 tons continuing (as such) thru the duration of the ODT.
 
Exceptions to the provisions of GO ODT No. 1 were issued as General Permits.  The exceptions included; cars loaded with merchandise consigned to the Military (7 ton minimum), Westbound reefers returning to specific states (5 ton minimum), and box cars routed towards grain producing territories (5 ton minimum).  
 
There are examples of these exceptions within Terry's consists as well as cars carrying less tonnage prior to the May 1, 1942 Order.  
 
Regards,
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 
 


Scott H. Haycock
 

Thanks,Guy.

Since my modeling era is more recent than Terry's documentation, I'm working backwards from the most recent (1948) consist lists. As I work backwards, I'll keep my eye out for these rule changes.  



Scott Haycock


 

Scott wrote:
 
"Something I've noticed as I go through these consists is, every box car listed as "merchandise" has a 10 ton load weight. Considering that almost all of the other box cars have a more specific description of their lading, would it be safe to assume that these cars carry l.c.l. loads? Is the 10 ton listing just a shortcut to actually weighing these cars, as the nature of l.c.l. would almost never approach the load limit of the car?"
 
 
The minimum weight a car could transport in LCL service was controlled by the Office of Defense Transportation beginning with the issuance of General Order ODT No. 1 on May 1, 1942.  Between May 1 and July 1, 1942, the minimum was specified as 6 tons.  From July 1 to September 1, 1942, the minimum was increased to 8 tons.  From September 1, 1942, the minimum was increased to 10 tons continuing (as such) thru the duration of the ODT.
 
Exceptions to the provisions of GO ODT No. 1 were issued as General Permits.  The exceptions included; cars loaded with merchandise consigned to the Military (7 ton minimum), Westbound reefers returning to specific states (5 ton minimum), and box cars routed towards grain producing territories (5 ton minimum).  
 
There are examples of these exceptions within Terry's consists as well as cars carrying less tonnage prior to the May 1, 1942 Order.  
 
Regards,
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada