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KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Barry Bennett
Perhaps it is because the Walthers cars are bogus in that they should have car builder type ends.
Barry Bennett,
Coventry, England.
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
Don’t be too quick to judge Walthers as doing something inaccurate. In as much as we know it happens. The accuracy of The ORERs’ isn’t 100%, as I have found dates on cars in photos that don’t exist in that place in time according to the ORERs’.
It’s a pretty darn accurate guide but is only as good as the people that submitted the information and whomever may have done the editing. ORERs’ are not flawless.
Rich Yoder
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 6:01 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 6:01 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Perhaps it is because the Walthers cars are bogus in that they should have car builder type ends.
Barry Bennett,
Coventry, England.
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
Hello Everyone,
Can't explain the discrepancy but can say that:
Pullman-Standard built 20800-20809, 10 cars, in 1935 and 20851-20900, 50 cars, in 1941. From the time they are first listed in the ORER, both series maintain their series boundaries yearly in the ORER through 1-1962 and there are no cars renumbered out to other series. No cars are listed in the gap "20809 and 20850" during that time and spot checks at 1-1965 and 1-1970 do not indicate any cars in that gap either. T'is possible though that examination of the ORER on a finer time scale after 1962 might reveal some cars renumbered into the gap for special service.
Cheers
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
Hello Group,
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Show quoted text
These cars sound interesting to me, if for no other reason than being 50-feet long and built within my modeling era.
I just went to the Walthers web site and did a search but failed to find these cars. Can someone provide more information and/or an sku# to aid this old dog’s efforts?
Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:22 AM, Eric Lombard elombard@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:Hello Everyone,Can't explain the discrepancy but can say that:Pullman-Standard built 20800-20809, 10 cars, in 1935 and 20851-20900, 50 cars, in 1941. From the time they are first listed in the ORER, both series maintain their series boundaries yearly in the ORER through 1-1962 and there are no cars renumbered out to other series. No cars are listed in the gap "20809 and 20850" during that time and spot checks at 1-1965 and 1-1970 do not indicate any cars in that gap either. T'is possible though that examination of the ORER on a finer time scale after 1962 might reveal some cars renumbered into the gap for special service.CheersOn Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
Andy Carlson
Bill-
If you are looking for the former Front Range 50' cars, they are still available, having been picked up years ago by Accurail. Yes, they acquired molded on ladders, brakes and hand grabs. The FR 40' cars were acquired by Red Caboose and those had new ladders and other details tooled for the post-acquisition RC releases, and are nicer than the original FR. Red Caboose did not engrave the details into the car body.
I find FR 50' cars at swap meets all the time and I am no longer looking for more, even as low priced as they are. Intermountain has lots of parts for the former Red Caboose ACF 40' box cars, enough for dozens of undec kits, though no word yet when they will address the former RC kits for release.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
From: "Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Hello Group,These cars sound interesting to me, if for no other reason than being 50-feet long and built within my modeling era.I just went to the Walthers web site and did a search but failed to find these cars. Can someone provide more information and/or an sku# to aid this old dog’s efforts?Cheers,Bill KeeneIrvine, CAOn Aug 9, 2015, at 8:22 AM, Eric Lombard elombard@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:Hello Everyone,Can't explain the discrepancy but can say that:Pullman-Standard built 20800-20809, 10 cars, in 1935 and 20851-20900, 50 cars, in 1941. From the time they are first listed in the ORER, both series maintain their series boundaries yearly in the ORER through 1-1962 and there are no cars renumbered out to other series. No cars are listed in the gap "20809 and 20850" during that time and spot checks at 1-1965 and 1-1970 do not indicate any cars in that gap either. T'is possible though that examination of the ORER on a finer time scale after 1962 might reveal some cars renumbered into the gap for special service.CheersOn Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
I have a Proto 2000 (pre-Walthers) KCS #20855 -- which is a correct number.
I think it was made back when Larry Grubb was still running the show.
I hate to malign the integrity of the illustrious research department at Walthers
but it looks like they made an error in this case.
Tim O'Connor
Pullman-Standard built 20800-20809, 10 cars, in 1935 and 20851-20900, 50 cars, in 1941. From the time they are first listed in the ORER, both series maintain their series boundaries yearly in the ORER through 1-1962 and there are no cars renumbered out to other series. No cars are listed in the gap "20809 and 20850" during that time and spot checks at 1-1965 and 1-1970 do not indicate any cars in that gap either. T'is possible though that examination of the ORER on a finer time scale after 1962 might reveal some cars renumbered into the gap for special service.
Cheers
Eric Lombard
> Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows
> a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
bill stanton
920-102004 and 920-102003
From: STMFC@... on behalf of Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 9:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 9:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Hello Group,
These cars sound interesting to me, if for no other reason than being 50-feet long and built within my modeling era.
I just went to the Walthers web site and did a search but failed to find these cars. Can someone provide more information and/or an sku# to aid this old dog’s efforts?
Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:22 AM, Eric Lombard elombard@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
Can't explain the discrepancy but can say that:Pullman-Standard built 20800-20809, 10 cars, in 1935 and 20851-20900, 50 cars, in 1941. From the time they are first listed in the ORER, both series maintain their series boundaries yearly in the ORER through 1-1962 and there are no cars renumbered out to other series. No cars are listed in the gap "20809 and 20850" during that time and spot checks at 1-1965 and 1-1970 do not indicate any cars in that gap either. T'is possible though that examination of the ORER on a finer time scale after 1962 might reveal some cars renumbered into the gap for special service.
Cheers
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
Hello Group,
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Show quoted text
Thanks to all that responded to my request for info on these cars. I will keep an eye out for them at the local swap meets. One would be a good addition to the layout fleet.
Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
On Aug 9, 2015, at 2:18 PM, bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:920-102004 and 920-102003
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 9:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?Hello Group,
These cars sound interesting to me, if for no other reason than being 50-feet long and built within my modeling era.I just went to the Walthers web site and did a search but failed to find these cars. Can someone provide more information and/or an sku# to aid this old dog’s efforts?Cheers,Bill KeeneIrvine, CAHello Everyone,Can't explain the discrepancy but can say that:Pullman-Standard built 20800-20809, 10 cars, in 1935 and 20851-20900, 50 cars, in 1941. From the time they are first listed in the ORER, both series maintain their series boundaries yearly in the ORER through 1-1962 and there are no cars renumbered out to other series. No cars are listed in the gap "20809 and 20850" during that time and spot checks at 1-1965 and 1-1970 do not indicate any cars in that gap either. T'is possible though that examination of the ORER on a finer time scale after 1962 might reveal some cars renumbered into the gap for special service.CheersOn Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
bill stanton
please note that these item numbers are for the cars with wrong road numbers (ie walthers proto)...
I don't know what the item numbers were for the original proto 2000 cars was
From: STMFC@... on behalf of Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 2:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 2:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?
Hello Group,
Thanks to all that responded to my request for info on these cars. I will keep an eye out for them at the local swap meets. One would be a good addition to the layout fleet.
Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
On Aug 9, 2015, at 2:18 PM, bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
920-102004 and 920-102003
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 9:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?Hello Group,
These cars sound interesting to me, if for no other reason than being 50-feet long and built within my modeling era.
I just went to the Walthers web site and did a search but failed to find these cars. Can someone provide more information and/or an sku# to aid this old dog’s efforts?
Cheers,Bill KeeneIrvine, CA
Hello Everyone,
Can't explain the discrepancy but can say that:Pullman-Standard built 20800-20809, 10 cars, in 1935 and 20851-20900, 50 cars, in 1941. From the time they are first listed in the ORER, both series maintain their series boundaries yearly in the ORER through 1-1962 and there are no cars renumbered out to other series. No cars are listed in the gap "20809 and 20850" during that time and spot checks at 1-1965 and 1-1970 do not indicate any cars in that gap either. T'is possible though that examination of the ORER on a finer time scale after 1962 might reveal some cars renumbered into the gap for special service.
Cheers
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
Tony Thompson
Tim O'Connor wrote:
I have a Proto 2000 (pre-Walthers) KCS #20855 -- which is a correct number.
I think it was made back when Larry Grubb was still running the show.
And as many on this list know, Larry was closely advised by Richard Hendrickson, and there was much mutual respect between the two.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
I believe for my modeling needs either the Walthers Proto or the Proto 2000 kit will do just fine. We shall see which kit I stumble across first at the local swap meets.
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Again, thanks for all of the kind assistance.
Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:24 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
> please note that these item numbers are for the cars with wrong road numbers (ie walthers proto)...
> I don't know what the item numbers were for the original proto 2000 cars was
Proto 2000 -- 30351 KCS #20855 kit
Other car numbers probably in that vicinity -- 3034x or 3035x
Tim O'