US coal hoppers in Canada
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John Riddell
As of 1914, coal for railway consumption in Ontario, Manitoba and eastern Saskatchewan was imported from US mines. CP had a major financial interest in Cambridge Collieries of Cambridge, Ohio. Photos of trains and loco coaling facilities in the above regions commonly show hoppers of PRR, NYC, Lehigh Valley, C&O, B&O, Reading, Virginian and Illinois Central.
During the Great Lakes navigation season, coal was often imported by ship and offloaded at ports on Lake Ontario, Georgian Bay and Lake Superior such as Prescott, Cobourg, Port Stanley, Port Maitland, Port Burwell, Britt, Little Current, Depot Harbour, Sault Ste. Marie, Michipicoten, Port Arthur and Fort William. CN or CP hoppers were used to ship the offloaded coal from those ports. During the winter when ships were laid up coal was imported by rail.
As of 1914, coal for railway use west of approximately Moose Jaw, Saskatoon and North Battleford was obtained from mines in Alberta and BC. It would be rare to see a US coal hopper west of Port Arthur, Fort William.
Coal for railway use east of approximately Cornwall, Ontario and Lachute, Quebec was obtained from mines in Nova Scotia. It would be rare to see a US coal hopper east of those points.
All of this changed over time of course as the use of coal changed.
John Riddell
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riverman_vt@...
John,
Was it not fairly common to see carloads of coal from both the NYC and D&H in southwestern Quebec at least with each of those two roads having their own line to at least Montreal? Also, would it be save to assume that most coal coming from Nova Scotia would have come in CNR hoppers? I do not know if the S&L had any hoppers that were used interline service or not but with Springhill and the Cape Breton areas both being connected to the outside rail world only by the CNR would expect few other hoppers were used. Your thoughts? Thanks, Don Valentine |
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cptracks
Ian Wilson's books have photos of US coal hoppers in various Ontario locations in the '50's. NYC for sure. Colin Riley From: "riverman_vt@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:59 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: US coal hoppers in Canada John, Was it not fairly common to see carloads of coal from both the NYC and D&H in southwestern Quebec at least with each of those two roads having their own line to at least Montreal? Also, would it be save to assume that most coal coming from Nova Scotia would have come in CNR hoppers? I do not know if the S&L had any hoppers that were used interline service or not but with Springhill and the Cape Breton areas both being connected to the outside rail world only by the CNR would expect few other hoppers were used. Your thoughts? Thanks, Don Valentine
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WaltGCox@...
Hi Don,
As far as I know Nova Scotia did not produce anthracite so almost any of
the anthracite lines" hoppers plus any other available empty hoppers,
could have been seen in Ontario and all of Quebec.
Walt
In a message dated 8/15/2015 12:13:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes:
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riverman_vt@...
Thank you Walt and Colin for your responses to my question about hoppers
in Quebec and Ontario. I have all but one of Ian Wilson's books which, together with some reckoning, are what prompted the question. Thanks again, Don Valentine |
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John Riddell
The statement referred to 1914 coal used “for railway consumption” – so
largely steam locomotive fuel.
In 1914 the Dominion Coal Company of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia was by far
the largest coal producer in Canada. It would have shipped coal in hoppers and
gons of the Intercolonial Railway and the Canadian Government Railways – both
which became the CNR circa 1918. So CN hoppers and gons after 1918. Nova Scotia
produced no anthracite coal. Nova Scotia bituminous coal was used only as far
west as Cornwall, Ontario.
US anthracite coal was imported and used from Nova Scotia to Battleford,
Saskatchewan in the west for residential and commercial use. So US hoppers with
anthracite coal (for non railway consumption) could be seen as far west as
Battleford.
John |
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Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
B&O hoppers were frequently ferried across the St. Lawrence River between Ogdensburg NY on the New York Central and Prescott ON on CPR for CP's eastern Ontario operations.
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Phil -- Phillip Blancher Membership Chair, Rutland Railroad Historical Society On Tuesday, August 18, 2015, John Riddell riddellj@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Jim Mischke
Also, BR&P/B&O operated a ferry between Charlotte, NY. (Rochester) and Cobourg, Ont. until 1950. There was northbound coal traffic aboard in US hopper cars. link: Car Ferry - Cobourg History
This is in addition to loading lake boats at Charlotte with coal for Canadian docks. |
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Thomas Klosterman
Actually from Sodus Point, NY, via the old PRR coal loading wharf there (burned down in ?1972?). This was on the PRR line from Canandaigua. I believe the branch from Southport, NY. |
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Thomas Klosterman
It was a wharf, on the PRR, thus, no PRR hoppers left the US! Coal was loaded on lakers via gravity. |
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midrly
Many images are around of PRR H12 hoppers carrying CPR loco coal in Ontario. Here's one--
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Bruce/orangeville_coal.jpg
Steve Lucas. |
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Dave Lawler
The steel car ferry Ashtabula was jointly owned by CPR and
PRR running between Port Burwell, Ontario and Ashtabula, Ohio from 1906 to 1958
primarily to transport coal for CPR locomotives.
She was operated by the Pennsylvania-Ontario Transportation Company and I
believe they had gondola and/or hopper cars dedicated to this service.
At one time Bowser had a kit for a Gsd gondola lettered for Pennsylvania
Ontario Coal Line.
Best regards,
Dave Lawler, Avon Lake, Ohio |
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