Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758


bill stanton
 

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.


According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.


Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?


Thanks in advance


George Hollwedel
 

After looking at the Intermountain website and my Santa Fe lettering book, its seems that all the Scout and Grand Canyon numbers are reversed. My bet would be on Richard being right.
 
Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
2108 Buffalo Tundra Dr
Austin, TX 78754-5960
512-579-0539
http://special.micro-trainsline.com/georgehollwedelmain
http://www.atlasrr.com/special.htm
http://intermountain-railway.com/n/sr/nsr.htm
http://www.bluford-shops.com/bluford_93_014.htm



From: "bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?



Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?

Thanks in advance





Allan Smith
 

Per the ATSF  website the following Bx-37 had the scout slogan 141300-141700 & 143311-143510. it is possible that at repainting the cars could have had the scout slogan added because the shop didn't have any other slogans or the other slogans had beeb damaged.

Al smith Sonora, Ca


bill stanton
 

on page 189 of Dobyne's book is a photo

 of 142097 with the scout slogan since no repaint date I believe its original.

hence my confusion


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Allan Smith smithal9@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 6:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 
 

Per the ATSF  website the following Bx-37 had the scout slogan 141300-141700 & 143311-143510. it is possible that at repainting the cars could have had the scout slogan added because the shop didn't have any other slogans or the other slogans had beeb damaged.

Al smith Sonora, Ca


bill stanton
 

on page 189 of Dobyne's book is a photo

 of 142097 with the scout slogan since no repaint date I believe its original.

hence my confusion




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Allan Smith smithal9@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 6:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 
 

Per the ATSF  website the following Bx-37 had the scout slogan 141300-141700 & 143311-143510. it is possible that at repainting the cars could have had the scout slogan added because the shop didn't have any other slogans or the other slogans had beeb damaged.

Al smith Sonora, Ca


Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each. Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


bill stanton
 

Thanks very much for the great info.


Now can you tell me what the assignments were for the Grand Canyon slogan on Bx-37s since Intermountain seems to be at variance with Richard's listing on those as well?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 10:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each.  Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






bill stanton
 

Thanks very much for the great info.


Now can you tell me what the assignments were for the Grand Canyon slogan on Bx-37s since Intermountain seems to be at variance with Richard's listing on those as well?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 10:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each.  Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






bill stanton
 

Thanks very much for the great info.


Now can you tell me what the assignments were for the Grand Canyon slogan on Bx-37s since Intermountain seems to be at variance with Richard's listing on those as well?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 10:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each.  Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 18, 2015, at 10:19 AM, bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Now can you tell me what the assignments were for the Grand Canyon slogan on Bx-37s since Intermountain seems to be at variance with Richard's listing on those as well?
Bill,
New Bx-37 box cars from the 1st & 2nd Pullman orders built with The Grand Canyon Line were 141301-141702 (141702 photo, 4-41) and 143311-143510 (143510 photo, 10-41), respectively. For these groups Pat and I are confident they are correct based on the information we obtained. If anyone has information to the contrary, please advise.

For the 3rd Bx-37 order from Pullman, 2,000 cars (145500-147499) built in late 1941 to early 1942, determining the slogans by car numbers was more problematic. We could not locate enough documentation to determine the original car no. slogan assignments with certainty. We could also not confirm there was an equal number of cars receiving the 5 slogans.

In the article we published builder or early in-service photos from the 3rd order that document original slogans for 146223 and 146454 (The Chief, 2-42), 146500 (The Scout, 12-41), 146963 (El Capitan, 1-42), and 147343 (The Super Chief, 2-42). It's likely The Grand Canyon Line was from lower numbers starting with 145500, however, the only photo we could locate is a Pullman builder photo of 145798 of the right side with the map.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins