PFE R-70-2 -> more questions


vapeurchapelon
 

Hello friends,

at first I want to thank the fellows posting and answering my PFE R-70-2 questions here when I wasn't even a member. Now this is my first post - with more questions. A dear friend of mine is building those cars for me and he uploaded the first pics at his website:

Modelle der 1930er Jahre



Don't know if the link will work as intended - it shoud lead directly to the R-70-2 project. If not and you are at the top, please scroll down.


But there are more questions now:


- at the instructions front page is a photo of the prototype with very distinctive "cover plates" - at least three feet long - at the outsides of the floor bolsters. The instructions don't mention them, but I would like to know how often these were installed, and only on rebuilt cars or on originals, too. Perhaps dependant on the two series (R-70-2 and -3)? My friend did scratchbuilt them as you can see at his pics.


- where can I get the Equipco style hatches needed to model the rebuilt version? Preferably in brass.


- where can I get the drain valves located on the floor of most reefers? Sunshine didn't supply them with the kit.


- Should the wood hatches have some handle or grab iron as the Equipco hatches have? The casting doesn't have any, and the instructions don't mention that detail.


Many thanks again and best Regards


Johannes Markwart



Mikebrock
 

Johannes, you write:


Hello friends,

at first I want to thank the fellows posting and answering my PFE R-70-2 questions here when I wasn't even a member. Now this is my first post - with more questions. A dear friend of mine is building those cars for me and he uploaded the first pics at his website:

"Don't know if the link will work as intended - it shoud lead directly to the R-70-2 project. If not and you are at the top, please scroll down."

The link works just fine and the photos are superb. However, my German is only slightly better than my Chinese or Russian so I can't read the written part. No matter...the photos speak for themselves.

I'll let others respond to your questions...for now.

Mike Brock

But there are more questions now:


- at the instructions front page is a photo of the prototype with very distinctive "cover plates" - at least three feet long - at the outsides of the floor bolsters. The instructions don't mention them, but I would like to know how often these were installed, and only on rebuilt cars or on originals, too. Perhaps dependant on the two series (R-70-2 and -3)? My friend did scratchbuilt them as you can see at his pics.


- where can I get the Equipco style hatches needed to model the rebuilt version? Preferably in brass.


- where can I get the drain valves located on the floor of most reefers? Sunshine didn't supply them with the kit.



- Should the wood hatches have some handle or grab iron as the Equipco hatches have? The casting doesn't have any, and the instructions don't mention that detail.


Many thanks again and best Regards


Johannes Markwart


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Johannes,

Equipco hatches and hatch covers are found in Red Caboose R-30 wood refrigerator car kits. Since both wooden and steel hatch covers were provided for different configurations, you may be able to get the left-overs from someone who built the car. It is possible that Intermountain, who now owns the RC tooling, will still sell you the parts sprue if it is in stock, (they usually wanted you to buy a minimum of 10 or 12 of any part). Intermountain's own R-40 kits also contain the hatch covers, but the hatches themselves were cast into the car roof. I also presume that you live in Germany, so this may make things difficult.

One note on the nomenclature. The hatches are the actual holes in the roof. The hatch covers are the "doors" that close the hole. There were also close fitting hatch-plugs which went down into the hatches to make a tight seal, a detail not often modeled since most of us build the cars with hatch covers down.

If you can't find the parts, I have some spares and could sent you a set. Try locally first, but otherwise please contact me OFF LIST at sarahsan@..., and I will see if we can work something out.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/21/15 7:15 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Johannes, you write:

Hello friends,

at first I want to thank the fellows posting and answering my PFE R-70-2
questions here when I wasn't even a member. Now this is my first post - with
more questions. A dear friend of mine is building those cars for me and he
uploaded the first pics at his website:

"Don't know if the link will work as intended - it shoud lead directly to
the R-70-2 project. If not and you are at the top, please scroll down."

The link works just fine and the photos are superb. However, my German is
only slightly better than my Chinese or Russian so I can't read the written
part. No matter...the photos speak for themselves.

I'll let others respond to your questions...for now.

Mike Brock

But there are more questions now:

- at the instructions front page is a photo of the prototype with very
distinctive "cover plates" - at least three feet long - at the outsides of
the floor bolsters. The instructions don't mention them, but I would like to
know how often these were installed, and only on rebuilt cars or on
originals, too. Perhaps dependant on the two series (R-70-2 and -3)? My
friend did scratchbuilt them as you can see at his pics.

- where can I get the Equipco style hatches needed to model the rebuilt
version? Preferably in brass.

- where can I get the drain valves located on the floor of most reefers?
Sunshine didn't supply them with the kit.

- Should the wood hatches have some handle or grab iron as the Equipco
hatches have? The casting doesn't have any, and the instructions don't
mention that detail.

Many thanks again and best Regards

Johannes Markwart



vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks for your replies, Mike and Garth. I still hope that somebody else can answer to my other questions which are the very last ones to get the cars done.

Garth, many thanks, too for your nomenclature note. Yes I am living in Germany, so my English sometimes makes some "trouble".
With your hint on Red Caboose I remembered them well since I have built a lot of them - all PFE, different paint schemes. I still have to look for the left-over parts of the kits. Maybe I have luck. Actually there will be 8 of the R70-2 cars, and 3 of them will be of the rebuilt version.
I have had INTERMOUNTAIN to send me replacement parts for about 20 R-40-10 or -23 reefer kits since those parts were all defective. That was no problem. But it was about 7 or 8 years ago. I will try again (and let you know) when I don't have enough Red Caboose parts.

(The close fitting hatch-plugs I think came with the R-40-10 kits - these were grey rectangular blocks. Almost all of my PFE kits I built with open hatch covers. I just looks great to me.)

Thanks again!

Johannes Markwart


Bernhard Schroeter
 

After all these discussions from my friend Johannes here the next kits are on their way, to turn into models.

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70-reefer/pfe-r70-supergiant-12k.jpg

The first one ...


http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70-reefer/pfe-r70-supergiant-20k.jpg

... and its four followers. They all will be built in same manner (after the wish of my friend) beside of small improvements.


Sorry, this is only a copy of the post that I must delete because the folders on my server were renamed. A new post will follow.


 

Any chance of this site in English?





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 6:07 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PFE R-70-2 -> more questions





After all these discussions from my friend Johannes here the next kits are on their way, to turn into models.

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70-reefer/pfe-r70-supergiant-12k.jpg

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70...
View on us-modelsof1900.de
Preview by Yahoo
The first one ...



http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70-reefer/pfe-r70-supergiant-20k.jpg

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70...
View on us-modelsof1900.de
Preview by Yahoo
... and its four followers. They all will be built in same manner (after the wish of my friend) beside of small improvements.



Sorry, this is only a copy of the post that I must delete because the folders on my server were renamed. A new post will follow.


Bernhard Schroeter
 

Brain,

click this link for a complete gallery with captions in English - Galerie – PFE Reefers (english captions)

 

or read a description in my blog on MRH - http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/23377.
Thanks for your interest!


Bernhard Schroeter
 

Yesterday I finished the first five of eight PFE R-70-2 reefers which I built for friend. Models are resin kits by Sunshine Models and I was not very lucky with included parts and materials. Many parts must be replaced and added however I received good looking models.
After a first "prototytype model" I had to make some small changes and now the owner of models is very lucky with the result. Another friend will realice the painting but not before all eight models are built.

Look here a gallery on my website where I documented a lot of working steps and the finished models.

Galerie – PFE Reefers (english captions)


Tim O'Connor
 

Dear Modelsof1900 (?)

Be wary of the decals included with the Sunshine R-70-2. I substituted Champ
decals "super set" for PFE when I decaled my model. Many of the included decals
were the wrong size, or had other errors. (It was years ago so I don't recall
exactly what was wrong with them.) There are improved Microscale sets out there
now as well, and probably others as well (Tichy? Speedwitch?)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/timboconnor/24923631800/

Tim O'Connor



Yesterday I finished the first five of eight PFE R-70-2 reefers which I built for friend. Models are resin kits by Sunshine Models and I was not very lucky with included parts and materials. Many parts must be replaced and added however I received good looking models. After a first "prototytype model" I had to make some small changes and now the owner of models is very lucky with the result. Another friend will realice the painting but not before all eight models are built.


 

They look great to me. Please post if and when you have pictures of them painted!





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 10:55 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PFE R-70-2 -> more questions





Yesterday I finished the first five of eight PFE R-70-2 reefers which I built for friend. Models are resin kits by Sunshine Models and I was not very lucky with included parts and materials. Many parts must be replaced and added however I received good looking models.
After a first "prototytype model" I had to make some small changes and now the owner of models is very lucky with the result. Another friend will realice the painting but not before all eight models are built.

Look here a gallery on my website where I documented a lot of working steps and the finished models.

Galerie – PFE Reefers (english captions)

Galerie – PFE Reefers (english captions) The gallery to description: - PFE reefers R-70-2 – the “Super Giants” - Return to >>> description Zurück zur Galerie mit deutschen Bildtexten.
View on us-modelsof1900.de
Preview by Yahoo




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Dick Harley
 

Tim & All,

The lettering and shape of the 1946 version of the UP medallion from Champ is way off the mark. The medallions on Microscale's current version of 87-414 are vastly superior. There are some minor flaws in the rest of that sheet, but the medallions are pretty darn good.

And now that the word is public knowledge, there is a new book coming in the next month from the SPH&TS on SP and PFE freight car painting and lettering. The title focuses on the SP, but over 40% of the book is about PFE. And yes, I do have a biased opinion.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Tim O'Connor
 

Hi Dick

It's only taken us 70 years since 1946 to get it right ! :-)

I suppose in 2050 modelers of 1980 will finally be getting correct
decals for their cars... :-|

Tim O'



Tim & All,

The lettering and shape of the 1946 version of the UP medallion from Champ is way off the mark.  The medallions on Microscale's current version of 87-414 are vastly superior.  There are some minor flaws in the rest of that sheet, but the medallions are pretty darn good.

And now that the word is public knowledge, there is a new book coming in the next month from the SPH&TS on SP and PFE freight car painting and lettering.  The title focuses on the SP, but over 40% of the book is about PFE.  And yes, I do have a biased opinion.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


vapeurchapelon
 

Bernd, my dear friend! Many many thanks for the great update with pics of great looking models. From the beginning on I knew the kits are in the best hands imaginable - e. g. your standards of building brake systems are second to none! I am confident that the 3 modernized cars will turn out as well.
 
Thanks again and keep on the fantastic work! ;-)
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. August 2016 um 13:07 Uhr
Von: "modelsof1900@... [STMFC]"
An: STMFC@...
Betreff: Re: [STMFC] PFE R-70-2 -> more questions
 

 

After all these discussions from my friend Johannes here the next kits are on their way, to turn into models.

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70-reefer/pfe-r70-supergiant-12k.jpg

The first one ...

 

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pfe-r70-reefer/pfe-r70-supergiant-20k.jpg

... and its four followers. They all will be built in same manner (after the wish of my friend) beside of small improvements.

 

Sorry, this is only a copy of the post that I must delete because the folders on my server were renamed. A new post will follow.

 


vapeurchapelon
 

I bought all available versions of the R70-2, which include three different paint schemes. (Actually I think that the decals are the only difference at all.) Does the Microscale decal sheet(s) allow for every known paint scheme for these cars?
 
Many thanks for your advice
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. August 2016 um 23:18 Uhr
Von: "Dick Harley dick.harley4up@... [STMFC]"
An: STMFC
Betreff: Re: [STMFC] PFE R-70-2 -> more questions
 


Tim & All,

The lettering and shape of the 1946 version of the UP medallion from Champ is way off the mark. The medallions on Microscale's current version of 87-414 are vastly superior. There are some minor flaws in the rest of that sheet, but the medallions are pretty darn good.

And now that the word is public knowledge, there is a new book coming in the next month from the SPH&TS on SP and PFE freight car painting and lettering. The title focuses on the SP, but over 40% of the book is about PFE. And yes, I do have a biased opinion.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA
 


Tim O'Connor
 


That's correct, there were no physical differences between the kits.
And the cars received modifications after 1950, or so I have heard -
I have no photos of the post-1950 cars. There were still 50 cars in
service in 1959, equipped with Preco FK-13 fans. Note the 1959 ORER
shows three series

  200000-200100 (28) door height 6' 2  3/4"
  200101-200120 (17) door height 7' 3     "
  200121-200125 ( 5) door height 7' 5 3/16"

I think all of the above are R-70-2's because all are listed as 52'6"
cars, and there were no other PFE reefers of that length. Why the door
heights are different is another mystery.

One car, 200110, lasted until 1965 !

Tim O'Connor



I bought all available versions of the R70-2, which include three different paint schemes. (Actually I think that the decals are the only difference at all.) Does the Microscale decal sheet(s) allow for every known paint scheme for these cars?
Many thanks for your advice
Johannes


Dick Harley
 


Hello Johannes,

You asked: "Does the Microscale decal sheet(s) allow for every known paint scheme for these cars?"

The short answer is no.  The more involved answer to the first part of your question is that Microscale's 2-sheet set 87-501 for 1950s lettering has the most accurate lettering I know (and yes, I drew it), but it does not have class, CAPY or dimensional data for 50-ft cars.  Doing a minical for those cars has been discussed, but the research is not done.  Microscale's 87-414 sheet for 1946-1950 lettering has good medallions, but much of the other lettering is not correctly sized and spaced.  Redrawing that sheet is high on my list, but it too needs research to get all the CAPY and dimensional data correct.  Microscale's MC-4021 minical has very good medallions for the 1936 and 1942 UP medallions, but the other lettering is very under-sized.  

As for "every known paint scheme for these cars," that covers a lot of ground, which you need the new book to fully understand.  Here is a condensed list of R-70-2 paint and lettering schemes:
1932 (as-built) - metal medallions, possibly (what the drawing says) black roof, no exterior dimensions
1936 - stenciled 1936 UP medallion without "System", add exterior dimensions to dimen. block, possible red roof
1938 - add double rectangle repack stencil, probable red roof
1942 - UP medallion without banner
1946 - UP 45" medallion, both medallions on each side (SP toward door)
1947 - remove LBS., FT. and IN.; re-space CAPY data
1948 - orange hardware on sides
1950 (reconditioned) - UP B&W medallion with RR  (SP toward door)
1951 - all orange sides, remove periods, SP medallion toward B-end
1952 - remove 1-inch horizontal bars from reporting marks

The decals included with the three Sunshine kit versions are the same except for the UP medallion.  The Microscale medallions are better.  The lettering on the included decals is a bit compressed.  The immediate solution for the best lettering is to use Microscale 87-501 (2 sheet set) as much as possible - one set does six cars.  Use Microscale 87-414 for the 1946 UP medallions - one sheet does 4 cars.  Use Microscale MC-4021 for either the 1936 or 1942 UP medallion - one each per sheet.  Use the CAPY and Dimen. data from the included decals, unless you want to piece together better lettering from 87-501.

FYI, Bob's Photo has a 1955 shot of a plywood sided R-70-2 (#200056) with 1952 style lettering - his photo #FPFE-14.

And BTW, the extra metal pieces added at the body bolster area were to add strength and stiffness and prevent cracking.  The photo on page 124 of the PFE book shows a larger version on a pre-recondtioning car.  The photo on page 125 shows a smaller version on a reconditioned car (maybe the larger version was more than needed).  Tony T. probably knows more about those than I do.


Hope this helps,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Dick Harley
 

Tim (and All),

The PFE 200101-120 series were R-70-3 class.
The PFE 200121-125 series were R-70-4 class.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Tim O'Connor
 

Dick,

The "1947" change must have come during the year. There's a shot of 200006
with a 1947 date (can't make out the month) but it still has LBS.

Tim


As for "every known paint scheme for these cars," that covers a lot of ground, which you
need the new book to fully understand.  Here is a condensed list of R-70-2 paint and
lettering schemes:

1932 (as-built) - metal medallions, possibly (what the drawing says) black roof,
                  no exterior dimensions
1936 - stenciled 1936 UP medallion without "System", add exterior dimensions to dimen. block,
                  possible red roof
1938 - add double rectangle repack stencil, probable red roof
1942 - UP medallion without banner
1946 - UP 45" medallion, both medallions on each side (SP toward door)
1947 - remove LBS., FT. and IN.; re-space CAPY data
1948 - orange hardware on sides
1950 (reconditioned) - UP B&W medallion with RR  (SP toward door)
1951 - all orange sides, remove periods, SP medallion toward B-end
1952 - remove 1-inch horizontal bars from reporting marks


Scott
 

In the pictures of the brake gear for this model, how did they fashion such a small loop on the wire that connects to the chain on the brake cylinder?

Scott McDonald


Fred Jansz
 

Speaking about MS sheet 414 (slightly off topic, I'm sorry); Dick, I'm building four R-40-14 and R-40-20 cars as per your online suggestion from various IM cars and DW 4/4 ends. The 87-414 decal sheet has R-40-14 class data, but lacks the blt x-41 date. It also misses the R-40-20 class and '45 blt date. Do you know of any other sheets with this data? Or should I 'assemble' these myself? Your advise is appreciated. Thanks.
Fred Jansz