Topics

Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?


Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Welch asked:
"It has been 6 or 7 years since I was at the Timonium Train Show but there used to be a vend[o]r or hobby shop that had a large number of Champ decals. Does anyone recall who this might be?" 

Roger Hinman replied:  
"I believe the vendor at Timonium was Northern Central hobby from somewhere in Pennsylvania."

Mike Caum, Northern Central Hobby, Shrewsbury PA.  Unfortunately, they no longer appear to be listing on eBay, and their website looks like it hasn't been updated in quite some time.


Ben Hom 


Bill Welch
 

Thank you Ben and Roger. It looks like the only Champ decals available are "O" scale.

I am surprised that at least Champ's remaining stock was not purchased by someone. The sets in question are re-weigh and re-lube items that match Champ and Walthers decals nicely. I have one of each packet but as I go back and dress up some older builds, I wanted at least one envelop of each. They include some things not in the Sunshine sets.

Hard to imagine decals just sitting somewhere or worse going into a Dumpster.

Bill Welch


prr282
 

Northern Central Supply, at the last several Timoniums, had large signs stating that they were going out of business and everything was discounted. Perhaps he has done so.


Paul B


Tony Thompson
 

Bill Welch wrote:

 

I am surprised that at least Champ's remaining stock was not purchased by someone. The sets in question are re-weigh and re-lube items that match Champ and Walthers decals nicely. __


     True, Bill, and I know of a couple of people who tried to nibble at the remaining stock, or at the artwork. But. Last time I checked, Rich's widow was insisting that anyone buying had to buy everything, down to the office desks, or buy nothing. No cherry picking.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





RDGSD45@...
 

If that's the seller that was in the far back corner, the last few shows they were having a going out of business sale.


                                                                                                Doug Wetherhold


Rick Jesionowski
 

E-mail North Central Supply with your wants, he is still in business and if he has want you want he will e-mail you back with the quantity and price.

Rick Jesionowski


Tim O'Connor
 


The article said she wanted $500,000 for the business. That may have
made sense in the glory days of decal sales, but considering that 80%
of the art doesn't meet present day standards of accuracy/fidelity to
the prototype and in any case is all designed to be used with a letter
press rather than a silkscreen, could anyone make a viable business
out of that? The article made it sound like since no offer was made,
the matter is closed.

Tim O'


Bill Welch wrote:

I am surprised that at least Champ's remaining stock was not purchased by someone. The sets in question are re-weigh and re-lube items that match Champ and Walthers decals nicely. __

     True, Bill, and I know of a couple of people who tried to nibble at the remaining stock, or at the artwork. But. Last time I checked, Rich's widow was insisting that anyone buying had to buy everything, down to the office desks, or buy nothing. No cherry picking.

Tony Thompson 


Charles Peck
 

I wonder if the graying of the hobby was part of it.  There are exceptions to be sure,
but I'm thinking that by the time most of us average Joes have saved enough to 
make such an investment, retirement is too close to put that money into buying
another job.  Especially one with only hope, not certainty, of being rebuilt into
something that will pay a good return.  I see folks as getting risk-adverse as they age.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


The article said she wanted $500,000 for the business. That may have
made sense in the glory days of decal sales, but considering that 80%
of the art doesn't meet present day standards of accuracy/fidelity to
the prototype and in any case is all designed to be used with a letter
press rather than a silkscreen, could anyone make a viable business
out of that? The article made it sound like since no offer was made,
the matter is closed.

Tim O'


Bill Welch wrote:

I am surprised that at least Champ's remaining stock was not purchased by someone. The sets in question are re-weigh and re-lube items that match Champ and Walthers decals nicely. __

     True, Bill, and I know of a couple of people who tried to nibble at the remaining stock, or at the artwork. But. Last time I checked, Rich's widow was insisting that anyone buying had to buy everything, down to the office desks, or buy nothing. No cherry picking.

Tony Thompson 



mwbauers
 

It’s likely that she would get that price if the major parts of the business were sold separately.

An unfortunate truth of the collection is that a moderately skilled computer graphics program user, even the occasional home user of such a program, can rebuild the Champ decal collection from their published plan books and catalogs. It would take time and a few computer jockeys working as a team. But it can be done by folks with an average computer skill.

I proved this to myself some years ago when Walthers was discontinuing certain decals I need many of. I worked from prototype shots and single sets of the long running Walthers decal sets. As I worked my decals were more correct and much better quality than the Walthers set. As a new user of the program I was working with, it took 2.5 hours. Half of that time was making over-cautious incremental work back-ups and repeated test prints and measured comparisons to the prototype. This included half of the development time spent on creating the complex herald from scratch. The nearest possible fonts were easily corrected to be correct in the process and the new font-set saved for future projects of the same RR.

I think if it was a standard boxcar, it would have taken half the time that this passenger unit with several mounted signs took. In fact, the freight cars and powered freight engines use the same fonts and heralds. As such they would be a quick job to make from the prime set for that RR.

As vector art, the work rescales to any desired scale with no loss of detail. I did a combined N scale to O scale sample page of the set to prove that. Any computer printer can generate the decal set from that digital art-work.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 31, 2015, at 8:13 PM, Charles Peck  wrote:


I wonder if the graying of the hobby was part of it.  There are exceptions to be sure,
but I'm thinking that by the time most of us average Joes have saved enough to 
make such an investment, retirement is too close to put that money into buying
another job.  Especially one with only hope, not certainty, of being rebuilt into
something that will pay a good return.  I see folks as getting risk-adverse as they age.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


The article said she wanted $500,000 for the business. That may have
made sense in the glory days of decal sales, but considering that 80%
of the art doesn't meet present day standards of accuracy/fidelity to
the prototype and in any case is all designed to be used with a letter
press rather than a silkscreen, could anyone make a viable business
out of that? The article made it sound like since no offer was made,
the matter is closed.

Tim O'


Bill Welch wrote:

I am surprised that at least Champ's remaining stock was not purchased by someone. The sets in question are re-weigh and re-lube items that match Champ and Walthers decals nicely. __

     True, Bill, and I know of a couple of people who tried to nibble at the remaining stock, or at the artwork. But. Last time I checked, Rich's widow was insisting that anyone buying had to buy everything, down to the office desks, or buy nothing. No cherry picking.

Tony Thompson 


Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

The article said she wanted $500,000 for the business. That may have
made sense in the glory days of decal sales, but considering that 80%
of the art doesn't meet present day standards of accuracy/fidelity to
the prototype and in any case is all designed to be used with a letter
press rather than a silkscreen, could anyone make a viable business
out of that? The article made it sound like since no offer was made,
the matter is closed.


     When I asked her if they had engaged a professional business valuator to give a value, she said that she and her brother knew the business very well and knew what is was worth. When I inquired whether the business books could be examined, to see annual volumes, etc., she said yes, but that in her opinion, those kinds of numbers had nothing to do with the value. It seemed clear to me that they had simply "imagineered" the price, and it's no surprise nobody bit.
      As with other businesses which could in principle be sold, but are priced beyond any practical possible value, one wonders why these people decide it is better to trash everything rather than find a viable buyer to continue. I have heard the comment that such sellers are not really sellers, they are worshipers of the previous business owner.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Mitchell Mercante
 

Bill,

You might try Hawkins Rail Service, P. O. Box 6008, Lafayette, IN 47903, telephone 765-742-5577.  Mr. Hawkins does not have an internet presence but will respond to either mail or telephone inquiries.  He has a very large supply of Champ decals in his store  and he should be able to search for what you need and he will let you know if he does indeed have it.  And if you come across any Victor Chemical Company decals, I'll take them!

Regards,

Mitch Mercante



On Monday, August 31, 2015 5:49 PM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote:




Thank you Ben and Roger. It looks like the only Champ decals available are "O" scale.

I am surprised that at least Champ's remaining stock was not purchased by someone. The sets in question are re-weigh and re-lube items that match Champ and Walthers decals nicely. I have one of each packet but as I go back and dress up some older builds, I wanted at least one envelop of each. They include some things not in the Sunshine sets.

Hard to imagine decals just sitting somewhere or worse going into a Dumpster.

Bill Welch





Charles Hladik
 

    Years ago in a phone conversation with Mr. Myer, he stated, "when I die, Champ dies".  That was a foolish attitude back then and the Mrs, seems to think the same way.
 
    I've got a mess of Champ decals, some with the Cleveland address on the envelope. Reckon I'll dig them out, make a list and see if they will brighten anyone's day.
 
Chuck Hladik
Rustburg, VA.
 

In a message dated 8/31/2015 9:59:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

The article said she wanted $500,000 for the business. That may have
made sense in the glory days of decal sales, but considering that 80%
of the art doesn't meet present day standards of accuracy/fidelity to
the prototype and in any case is all designed to be used with a letter
press rather than a silkscreen, could anyone make a viable business
out of that? The article made it sound like since no offer was made,
the matter is closed.


     When I asked her if they had engaged a professional business valuator to give a value, she said that she and her brother knew the business very well and knew what is was worth. When I inquired whether the business books could be examined, to see annual volumes, etc., she said yes, but that in her opinion, those kinds of numbers had nothing to do with the value. It seemed clear to me that they had simply "imagineered" the price, and it's no surprise nobody bit.
      As with other businesses which could in principle be sold, but are priced beyond any practical possible value, one wonders why these people decide it is better to trash everything rather than find a viable buyer to continue. I have heard the comment that such sellers are not really sellers, they are worshipers of the previous business owner.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.s ignaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Mike,

No, not all printers can made decals. Epson ink-jet inks never dry on decal paper, at least not on Microscale's paper, which is the only one I had access to when I tried. It make a sticky mess that ran all over the paper and got on the rollers in my machine.

Other brands of printers might have worked, but since I needed this expensive printer for photographs, I couldn't simply replace it for a few decals.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

 

On 8/31/15 9:42 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] wrote (in part):

 
. . . Any computer printer can generate the decal set from that digital art-work.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi



asychis@...
 

Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels


Thomas Baker
 

That the accuracy of "today's best decals" eclipses that of CHAMP is true.  The problem is that the loss of Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte leaves me wondering where "today's best decals" may be found.  I model in S scale so the problem is acute for me.  Both Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte were willing to produce their product in S and to do it at a reasonable price.  It is unfortunate that, as far as I know, no one has purchased the art work from Jerry or Tom.  That would be a step in the right direction.  


Tom Baker


From: STMFC@... on behalf of asychis@... [STMFC] Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?
 


Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels



hubert mask
 

Mr Baker I offer S scale decals on my website    I am limited to the prototypes offered. 

Hubert Mask

Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Sep 1, 2015, at 8:14 AM, Thomas Baker bakert@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That the accuracy of "today's best decals" eclipses that of CHAMP is true.  The problem is that the loss of Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte leaves me wondering where "today's best decals" may be found.  I model in S scale so the problem is acute for me.  Both Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte were willing to produce their product in S and to do it at a reasonable price.  It is unfortunate that, as far as I know, no one has purchased the art work from Jerry or Tom.  That would be a step in the right direction.  


Tom Baker


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of asychis@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?
 


Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels



Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Today's best decals have an uneven coverage of steam era roads, even major ones like NYC. As to aging, I have successfully applied Champ decals from a package giving the address as Cleveland 2, Ohio - probably 1950s.

Alex Schneider
 


From: "asychis@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 6:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?



Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels





tyesac@...
 

Probably the best hope is for short run projects researched, sponsored, developed and marketed through the hobby via cooperation betwen any specific historical society and a custom decal printer.  I think the days of having a broad in -stock selection of decals is waning.   Even as far as the mini-kit concept that Martin Lofton offered via Sunshine Models.
 
Tom Casey 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: aschneiderjr@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 9:05 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

 
Today's best decals have an uneven coverage of steam era roads, even major ones like NYC. As to aging, I have successfully applied Champ decals from a package giving the address as Cleveland 2, Ohio - probably 1950s.

Alex Schneider
 

From: "asychis@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 6:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?



Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels





mwbauers
 

I never suggested which printers do the better job, nor that they all can print on decal paper; only that the standard digital decal set can be printed from any of them.

Suggesting that some do it better than others, while all can print from those files.

I'd need to tell you that an article in MR about 1999 where they used an Epson photo printer to full body decal a BN caboose with copious amounts of photo captured graffiti was completely successful.

You may need the printer setting they used in that article to successful print decals on an Epson photo printer. They custom set the print setting on it.

I can pull it up from the MR DVD if you'd like to have those directions and try it with a small test decal.

There is also a test trick used by the Alps printers with print on laser-print decal stock.

They test print proofs on quality laser print paper like Hammermill Laser print paper. That paper prints just like the laser decal paper. That paper seems to be a paper weight photo-quality print media as well. So you should find it useful for photos as well.

I use the stuff and those are my views of the Hammermill laser paper.

I'll boot up the article in a few minutes and see what type of decal paper they used. There are technical differences between ink-jet decal paper and (standard) laser print decal paper. I need to see which type of decal media they used.

I can report back with those print settings and type of decal paper used.

Mike Bauers


On Sep 1, 2015, at 3:36 AM, "Garth Groff > wrote:

 

Mike,

No, not all printers can made decals. Epson ink-jet inks never dry on decal paper, at least not on Microscale's paper, which is the only one I had access to when I tried. It make a sticky mess that ran all over the paper and got on the rollers in my machine.

Other brands of printers might have worked, but since I needed this expensive printer for photographs, I couldn't simply replace it for a few decals.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

 

On 8/31/15 9:42 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] wrote (in part):
 
. . . Any computer printer can generate the decal set from that digital art-work.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi



Tim O'Connor
 

Didn't someone recently mention they had acquired Jerry's decal artwork?

Tim O'Connor

That the accuracy of "today's best decals" eclipses that of CHAMP is true. The problem is that the loss of Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte leaves me wondering where "today's best decals" may be found. I model in S scale so the problem is acute for me. Both Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte were willing to produce their product in S and to do it at a reasonable price. It is unfortunate that, as far as I know, no one has purchased the art work from Jerry or Tom. That would be a step in the right direction.


Tom Baker