Pacific Great Eastern freight cars in the US in the 1950s (offshoot


greg kennelly
 

Thanks to Bob Hanmer and Barry Bennett who, off list, provided me with information that the statement "Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct connections" appeared in the Pacific Great Eastern ORER entries as late as July 1959 but disappeared some time before an unspecified month in 1963 (beyond the cut-off date for this list).

Thanks also to Tim O'Connor who sent me a copy of the photograph of PGE 4220 (BLT 1-58) in Los Angeles in the late 1950s (actually, I believe, some time after June 1960 - the repack stencil looks like "RPKD PGE, NV 6-26-60"). However, as many of us know, it was the rarities rather than the common occurences that tended to be photographed. I will, therefore, stick with my statement that, in the time frame of this list, the appearance of a PGE freight car in the U.S. would be a relative rarity.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly,
Burnaby, BC


Ian Cranstone
 

On 2015-09-02, at 3:23 PM, Greg Kennelly greg_kennelly@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Thanks to Bob Hanmer and Barry Bennett who, off list, provided me with
information that the statement "Freight Cars owned are used only in
Switching Service with direct connections" appeared in the Pacific Great
Eastern ORER entries as late as July 1959 but disappeared some time
before an unspecified month in 1963 (beyond the cut-off date for this list).

I'll narrow it down further.  This line last appeared in the July 1960 ORER.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada


destorzek@...
 

Not to get too far afield, but to give a better sense of what we're looking at as far as the PGE of the 40's and 50's was concerned...

Someone else has mentioned the Oregon Electric in this discussion. OE was, at one time, more of a heavy duty electric interurban system than a railroad, similar to Pacific Electric. When the OE abandoned their passenger service, some of the wood passenger cars were de-motored and went north for continued service on the PGE. Here is a link to a photo of one of the cars, now in the service of the Black Hills Central tourist railroad:

Panoramio - Photo of Black Hills Central Railroad Passenger Car at Hill City, SD

I don't think the PGE freight car fleet of the post WWII years was any more modern.

Dennis Storzek

 


Tony Thompson
 

      There seems to be a view that the PGE freight cars were a collection of old, decrepit clunkers in the 1950s. My understanding, however, is that there were at least some modern cars. The 4001-4075 box cars were all-steel, built in 1947 (by NSC, I think), with Improved Dreadnaught ends. Cars like this certainly COULD have been interchanged, though I gather PGE did not want to do so.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Chuck Soule
 

I just attempted to post 3 photos I took earlier this year of BCOL 993016 - an ex PGE ex CPR mini box that is located at the railroad museum in Squamish.  The pictures are not showing up yet in the album.

The car as shown was retired from MOW service, but was probably acquired by PGE post 1958 from CPR.  Therefore, PGE probably did not use them during the steam era, but CPR certainly did.

In case my photos don't show up in the album, you can find other pictures online by searching for BCOL 993016

Chuck Soule


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Dennis,

I'm looking at the PGE roster in the 1958 ORER, and seeing mostly state-of-the-art equipment, by then at least. I wasn't able to find photos or data on most of their cars, and I'm sure some of them were rolling relics, but these stood out:

XM 4101-4300 w/8' doors, built 1958 by NSC. They also had series 4001-4075 with 6' doors, and otherwise similar dimensions. I have no picture of these, but they are listed as all-steel. By this time all their older wooden boxcars were gone, rebuilt as stock cars or scrapped.

RAMH 820-824, 825-834 and 835-844, all-steel 8-hatch reefers built by NSC in 1954, 1956 and 1958 respectively.

FM 1220-1469, 52' 6" steel-underframe flats with a 155000 capacity.

HM 200-229 and 261-280, 40', 140,000  capacity, 2775 cubic foot hoppers.

Those all sound like reasonably new cars. There are other all-steel hoppers of smaller capacity, some 52' 6" solid-bottom gondolas with fixed ends, though these may have had wooden sides.

It makes me wonder if the PG&E had agreements with their connecting roads to return their cars promptly, and not let them become free runners. Perhaps they needed every car to cover their own customers?

Your Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/3/15 8:48 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Not to get too far afield, but to give a better sense of what we're looking at as far as the PGE of the 40's and 50's was concerned...

Someone else has mentioned the Oregon Electric in this discussion. OE was, at one time, more of a heavy duty electric interurban system than a railroad, similar to Pacific Electric. When the OE abandoned their passenger service, some of the wood passenger cars were de-motored and went north for continued service on the PGE. Here is a link to a photo of one of the cars, now in the service of the Black Hills Central tourist railroad:

Panoramio - Photo of Black Hills Central Railroad Passenger Car at Hill City, SD

I don't think the PGE freight car fleet of the post WWII years was any more modern.

Dennis Storzek

 



destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <sarahsan@...> wrote :

Dennis,

I'm looking at the PGE roster in the 1958 ORER, and seeing mostly state-of-the-art equipment, by then at least. I wasn't able to find photos or data on most of their cars, and I'm sure some of them were rolling relics, but these stood out:

XM 4101-4300 w/8' doors, built 1958 by NSC. They also had series 4001-4075 with 6' doors, and otherwise similar dimensions. I have no picture of these, but they are listed as all-steel. By this time all their older wooden boxcars were gone, rebuilt as stock cars or scrapped.

RAMH 820-824, 825-834 and 835-844, all-steel 8-hatch reefers built by NSC in 1954, 1956 and 1958 respectively...
=================

Garth,

1958 is almost the end of the era for this list, and just a couple years before the statement restricting interchange disappears from the ORER. I was really thinking of the decade right after WWII.

I suspect PGE was in the position of originating more traffic than they received, and so would never get empties back to replace home road cars that went off line. Likely better to keep their own cars on-line (which included shuttling to Vancouver on the CP barge) and request CP supply foreign road empties when they had  loads for interchange.

Whatever the reason, it seems pretty clear that the intent was to not let their car fleet become free runners, at least not until 1960.

Dennis Storzek