Unusual Milwaukee Road boxcar


Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

The following photo on eBay has been brought to my attention, a 50’ box car with four doors built on what seems to be a flat car. http://www.ebay.com/itm/371447774953.  I have been to now unaware of such a car, but I am certain that others may be more knowledgeable as to its provenance and purpose.  

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Edward
 

A heavy under frame with deep side sills would be needed for such a car, as the body with a large opening for four moveable doors on each side would not have much structural strength.

When each pair of doors is pushed to the ends of their tracks, a large area of the car side is open.
Using two pairs of doors to cover that opening would also allow loading/unloading to be done at any point in the car, possibly for lumber loaded using fork lift trucks.

What the MILW seems to have done, was build this boxcar on a Commonwealth Steel Castings flatcar frame.

While I'm here, I have an old calendar picture of a UP 4-6-6-4 hauling a freight. About two cars back is a steel 50' DT&I double door box car in it that also has very deep side sills.

Possibly for heavy, concentrated lading such as automotive engines or transmissions/axle assemblies in racks?  I can't make out it's number and would like to alter an old O scale Athearn 50' boxcar kit to model it. 

Any ideas? 

Ed Bommer


dssa1051
 

It's a one of a kind car used as a lumber car and was likely a predecessor to all-door car.  It was built in May 2, 1956.  From Milwaukee Road Color Guide Vol. II.

Now if someone would so nice and answer my earlier question on tank cars from last week that has been buried.

Robert Oom
Kalamazoo, MI


Tim O'Connor
 


  > What the MILW seems to have done, was build this boxcar on a
  > Commonwealth Steel Castings flatcar frame.
  > Ed Bommer

Ed

Are you referring to the photo of MILW 16800 ?? It's clearly a fabricated,
riveted frame -- not a casting. That would make no difference as to the
strength of the car, but it appears the light weight is over 80,000 lbs
which may be why this design was not repeated. The sides of a box car are
like a girder and provide a lot of strength -- so the addition of a full
flat car underneath means the car is greatly overdesigned. You can see the
flat car was originally 53'6" so the ends of the box car are extended.

Tim O'Connor



Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Denny,

A very cool car. It isn't in my 1958 ORER, and the reweigh date appears to be 1965. I'm thinking this may not fit in our era. Still, a very cool car. Thanks for sharing.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/25/15 1:23 PM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

The following photo on eBay has been brought to my attention, a 50’ box car with four doors built on what seems to be a flat car. http://www.ebay.com/itm/371447774953.  I have been to now unaware of such a car, but I am certain that others may be more knowledgeable as to its provenance and purpose.  


Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento






Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :

The sides of a box car are
like a girder and provide a lot of strength -- so the addition of a full
flat car underneath means the car is greatly overdesigned.
=================

What sides, Tim? There is nothing but door opening between the inboard axles - no strength there. This is likely the MILW's attempt at a lumber car designed for mechanical loading. Things got so much easier when the mills decided to just wrap the lumber.

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis

Then how do you explain why double door cars don't collapse? The doors
must provide some strength. I think if we got a more vertical view we'd
see some heavy duty door tracks.

What sides, Tim? There is nothing but door opening between the inboard axles - no strength there. This is likely the MILW's attempt at a lumber car designed for mechanical loading. Things got so much easier when the mills decided to just wrap the lumber.

Dennis Storzek


Jack Mullen
 

No, the doors don't contribute strength to the side girder. That's why the side sill is reinforced in the vicinity of the door opening. To turn your question around, if the structure depends on the doors for strength, explain why the car doesn't collapse when the doors are opened.

Jack Mullen


boomer44@...
 

My question is how would these doors be opened? I would think they would have to slide by each other but the door track doesn't look wide enough.

Gordon Spalty


hayden_tom@...
 

My assumption is that it is not intended (nor possible) to have all the door space open at the same time, but rather that almost any portion of the interior space can be accessed from the side by opening the approprite door (s). Makes it easier to load. 

Tom


rwitt_2000
 

Jack, I believe you are correct. It is modern open-top hoppers and gondolas where the side act as girders. A box car is a tube with the sides, roof, ends and underframe (side sills and cross bearers) providing the structural strength. Mechanical engineers can explain it better, but "tubes" can have "holes" in them (door openings) and only lose a certain fraction of its strength.

Another question would be is what is in the extensions to the box cars sides to fill out the rest of the flat cars length? If it is a frame with four side members it could add a lot of structural strength to the car. A description of this car would have been good article to publish it the MILW employees magazine. I wonder if that was ever done.

Bob Witt


David Sieber
 

Denny, et al,

     When I queried both the MILW and MILW Modelers Groups about the car in that ebay photo, Thom Anderson referred me to a Wade Stevenson photo of the car bearing original number MILW 39000, on page 38 in the Morning Sun MILW Color Guide Vol 2, by Doug Nighswonger.  The photo caption states: 

     "One of the strangest cars in The Milwaukee fleet was this lumber car.  A one-of-a-kind experiment built from flatcar 650511, it has a 50'9" overall length with a 48' interior length and a 30' door opening.  Removable door posts kept the doors in place, which slide one over the other to the left and to the right of the opening.  It was built May 2, 1956, and later was renumbered 16800 on August 30, 1962.  Shown at Othello, Washington, on October 20, 1961." 

     This singleton car does fall within the group era, appearing in the Jan 59 ORER as MILW 39000, with data confirming that in the caption above, and with Note DDD: "Car No. 39000 is equipped with wide side doors for loading lumber."  It was built on a riveted flatcar, as clearly seen in both photos that have surfaced to date.  Unfortunately, the Stevenson photo is too dark to answer one key question for modeling this unique car:  what were the ends (and the roof) used in this home build?

HTH, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


mwbauers
 

The photo can be adjusted to see those. [something to keep in mind for similar dark photos]

But the angle is still going to make it difficult to determine which they are.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Sep 26, 2015, at 11:02 AM, David Sieber ealabhan0@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 Unfortunately, the Stevenson photo is too dark to answer one key question for modeling this unique car:  what were the ends (and the roof) used in this home build?


Schuyler Larrabee
 

True, hard to tell for sure, but the roof looks rather Viking-ish to me.

 

Schuyler

 

 

Denny, et al,

 

     When I queried both the MILW and MILW Modelers Groups about the car in that ebay photo, Thom Anderson referred me to a Wade Stevenson photo of the car bearing original number MILW 39000, on page 38 in the Morning Sun MILW Color Guide Vol 2, by Doug Nighswonger.  The photo caption states: 

 

     "One of the strangest cars in The Milwaukee fleet was this lumber car.  A one-of-a-kind experiment built from flatcar 650511, it has a 50'9" overall length with a 48' interior length and a 30' door opening.  Removable door posts kept the doors in place, which slide one over the other to the left and to the right of the opening.  It was built May 2, 1956, and later was renumbered 16800 on August 30, 1962.  Shown at Othello, Washington, on October 20, 1961." 

 

     This singleton car does fall within the group era, appearing in the Jan 59 ORER as MILW 39000, with data confirming that in the caption above, and with Note DDD: "Car No. 39000 is equipped with wide side doors for loading lumber."  It was built on a riveted flatcar, as clearly seen in both photos that have surfaced to date.  Unfortunately, the Stevenson photo is too dark to answer one key question for modeling this unique car:  what were the ends (and the roof) used in this home build?

 

HTH, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Following the usual unvarying rule that modeling interest is inversely related to the rarity/pecularity of the prototype, I would expect that anyone producing a kit for this car would clean up.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA