new car kit from Dry Creek


Tony Thompson
 

Not everyone on the list may be aware of an impressive and innovative new car kit, offered by Dry Creek Models, for a Hart Convertible Gondola. It is produced as a one-piece body by 3-D printing. I have a brief description of it, and links to the Dry Creek web pages, in my blog post today. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-new-dry-creek-sp-work-cars.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


mwbauers
 

I think it’s great to see the old Tru-Scale HO model redone to the prototype,.

The Tru-Scale dates from late 50’s tooling, it’s long needed correcting.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Oct 19, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Tony Thompson  wrote:

Not everyone on the list may be aware of an impressive and innovative new car kit, offered by Dry Creek Models, for a Hart Convertible Gondola. It is produced as a one-piece body by 3-D printing. I have a brief description of it, and links to the Dry Creek web pages, in my blog post today. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-new-dry-creek-sp-work-cars.html


Tony Thompson
 

Mike Bauers wrote:

 

I think it’s great to see the old Tru-Scale HO model redone to the prototype,.

The Tru-Scale dates from late 50’s tooling, it’s long needed correcting.

  I didn't know about a Tru-Scale car. The familiar Silver Streak kit, from the very early 1950s, has two drawbacks, that its underframe truss is oversize though correctly located back from the side sill, and that the entire car is about 10 percent oversize, as were many of the early Silver Streak kits. Sometimes that can be corrected, but with the Hart gondola, not really. The Dry Creek model indeed replaces all those problems.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Armand Premo
 


And before that ,by Silver Streak.Armand PremoOriginal Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new car kit from Dry Creek

 

I think it’s great to see the old Tru-Scale HO model redone to the prototype,.


The Tru-Scale dates from late 50’s tooling, it’s long needed correcting.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Oct 19, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Tony Thompson  wrote:

Not everyone on the list may be aware of an impressive and innovative new car kit, offered by Dry Creek Models, for a Hart Convertible Gondola. It is produced as a one-piece body by 3-D printing. I have a brief description of it, and links to the Dry Creek web pages, in my blog post today. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-new-dry-creek-sp-work-cars.html

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Benjamin Hom
 

Mike Bauers wrote:
"I think it’s great to see the old Tru-Scale HO model redone to the prototype.  The Tru-Scale dates from late 50’s tooling, it’s long needed correcting."
Tony Thompson replied:
"I didn't know about a Tru-Scale car. The familiar Silver Streak kit, from the very early 1950s, has two drawbacks, that its underframe truss is oversize though correctly located back from the side sill, and that the entire car is about 10 percent oversize, as were many of the early Silver Streak kits."
 
They appear to be the same model.  The model appeared in the 1960 Tru-Scale catalog:
 
However, this instruction sheet has both Silver Streak and Tru-Scale branding on it:
 
 
Ben Hom
 
 


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tony,

IIRC, the Tru-Scale Hart car was the same as the T-M. T-M bought the whole Tru-Scale line of work cars and offered them without any changes, except for including T-M trucks (and a lot of phoney roadnames).

I still have one of the Walthers cars, and owned a couple of the T-M examples, now long gone.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 10/19/15 1:37 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Not everyone on the list may be aware of an impressive and innovative new car kit, offered by Dry Creek Models, for a Hart Convertible Gondola. It is produced as a one-piece body by 3-D printing. I have a brief description of it, and links to the Dry Creek web pages, in my blog post today. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-new-dry-creek-sp-work-cars.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



Benjamin Hom
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"IIRC, the Tru-Scale Hart car was the same as the T-M. T-M bought the whole Tru-Scale line of work cars and offered them without any changes, except for including T-M trucks (and a lot of phoney roadnames)."

Not quite true. The Train-Miniature model was an injection-molded styrene copy of the Tru-Scale/Silver Streak model, which was a craftsman kit.


Ben Hom


Alexander Schneider Jr
 


Some readers may be interested to know the prototype (SP W-30 ballast car), the scale (HO) and the price ($32) before deciding whether to go farther.

Tony's blog indicates that similar equipment was built by AC&F for UP, OSL and PE.

I would have thought that specialized work equipment was fairly standardized and the manufacturer, would have sold a successful model to a number of roads, but modelers need to do research to evaluate this kit for their own roads.

Did these cars go off line in revenue service, and if so, how far?

I imagine that if one were needed at a job site several would be. If only one load of ballast is needed it could be sent in a gondola along with a gang armed with wheelbarrows and shovels. Links to photos showing them in action would be very interesting.

Alex Schneider
 


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...; Espee List
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] new car kit from Dry Creek

      Not everyone on the list may be aware of an impressive and innovative new car kit, offered by Dry Creek Models, for a Hart Convertible Gondola. It is produced as a one-piece body by 3-D printing. I have a brief description of it, and links to the Dry Creek web pages, in my blog post today. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-new-dry-creek-sp-work-cars.html

Tony Thompson            Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705        www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






------------------------------------
Posted by: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
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John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

Actually, the Rodger Ballast Car Company built many different designs of "Hart Convertible" cars, according to customer specifications. I have a 1906 catalog showing cars with capacities from 30 to 50 tons and lengths of 34 to 41 feet. In addition to "convertible gondolas", they also offered box and stock cars with drop bottoms.
 
A big selling point was that the cars could be run in general service as well as ballast service, which is why they were almost invariably listed with the freight cars instead of the nonrevenue equipment in the Official Railway Equipment Register . Just how much general service they saw is problematic, as ballast service was rather hard on the equipment.
 
Rodger, like some other makers of ballast cars and other types of work equipment, did not have a factory of their own. Just an office, where they held the patents, took orders, designed the cars, and then had the cars built by whichever car manufacturer offered the best price.
 
John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: aschneiderjr@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Oct 19, 2015 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new car kit from Dry Creek

 

Some readers may be interested to know the prototype (SP W-30 ballast car), the scale (HO) and the price ($32) before deciding whether to go farther.

Tony's blog indicates that similar equipment was built by AC&F for UP, OSL and PE.

I would have thought that specialized work equipment was fairly standardized and the manufacturer, would have sold a successful model to a number of roads, but modelers need&n bsp;to do research to evaluate this kit for their own roads.

Did these cars go off line in revenue service, and if so, how far?

I imagine that if one were needed at a job site several would be. If only one load of ballast is needed it could be sent in a gondola along with a gang armed with wheelbarrows and shovels. Links to photos showing them in action would be very interesting.

Alex Schneider
 

From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...; Espee List <Espee@...>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] new car kit from Dry Creek

      Not everyone on the list may be aware of an impressive and innovative new car kit, offered by Dry Creek Models, for a Hart Convertible Gondola. It is produced as a one-piece body by 3-D printing. I have a brief description of it, and links to the Dry Creek web pages, in my blog post today. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-new-dry-creek-sp-work-cars.html

Tony Thompson            Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705        www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






------------------------------------
Posted by: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
------------------------------------


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Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 

Elements of both statements are correct. The original Silver Streak/Tru-Scale wood and zamac models became the injection molded and labeled Tru-Scale kits. Those molds were subsequently purchased and used to produce injection molded kits under the Train Miniature label.

Dick

On Oct 19, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Garth Groff wrote:
"IIRC, the Tru-Scale Hart car was the same as the T-M. T-M bought the whole Tru-Scale line of work cars and offered them without any changes, except for including T-M trucks (and a lot of phoney roadnames)."

Not quite true. The Train-Miniature model was an injection-molded styrene copy of the Tru-Scale/Silver Streak model, which was a craftsman kit.


Ben Hom



Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Ben,

Not quite, not quite. I'm not sure of the whole history of these cars, but the Silver Streak line of MOW cars was duplicated in plastic by Tru-Scale at some point, probably in the mid-1960s. These were sold to T-M around 1969-1970. I remember seeing them at Franks Hobby shop in Orange, CA while I was in college, and noting that they were the same as Tru-Scale.

I'm was not aware that Tru-Scale sold the Silver Streak cars in wood and metal. I certainly remember the flat car as plastic, and it was never offered in metal/wood AFAIK. Is it possible that the Tru-Scale and Silver Streak lines were actually owned or vended by the same company? That is getting back into the stygian gloom of my youth, and since I am now older than Elvis (a lot older), I've forgotten an awful lot. Of course, by the mid-1970s all this tooling belonged to Walthers.

I suppose if it really mattered, we could settle this by look at the ads in old issues of MR.

Remember when Mantua/Tyco changed the underframe of their bobber caboose from metal to plastic?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 10/19/15 4:23 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"IIRC, the Tru-Scale Hart car was the same as the T-M. T-M bought the whole Tru-Scale line of work cars and offered them without any changes, except for including T-M trucks (and a lot of phoney roadnames)."

Not quite true. The Train-Miniature model was an injection-molded styrene copy of the Tru-Scale/Silver Streak model, which was a craftsman kit.


Ben Hom



Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

 

IIRC, the Tru-Scale Hart car was the same as the T-M. T-M bought the whole Tru-Scale line of work cars and offered them without any changes, except for including T-M trucks (and a lot of phoney roadnames).


      As it happens, Garth, you don't recall correectly. T-M may well have bought the Tru-Scale line, but the T-M version of the Hart gondola is quite different, including moving the underbody truss out to the side sills.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Tony Thompson
 

Elements of both statements are correct. The original Silver Streak/Tru-Scale wood and zamac models became the injection molded and labeled Tru-Scale kits. Those molds were subsequently purchased and used to produce injection molded kits under the Train Miniature label.


   It may be true that the Silver Streak/Tru-Scale kits were the starting point for design of the T-M molds, but they obviously were not copies directly; the reefers, for example, are correct size in the T-M line, not 10 percent oversize as were the Silver Streak versions. So calling the T-M kits just injection-molded Silver Streak is clearly wrong.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Elements of both statements are correct. The original Silver Streak/Tru-Scale wood and zamac models became the injection molded and labeled Tru-Scale kits. Those molds were subsequently purchased and used to produce injection molded kits under the Train Miniature label.


   It may be true that the Silver Streak/Tru-Scale kits were the starting point for design of the T-M molds, but they obviously were not copies directly; the reefers, for example, are correct size in the T-M line, not 10 percent oversize as were the Silver Streak versions. So calling the T-M kits just injection-molded Silver Streak is clearly wrong.
===========
I think you are reading more than there is in the original statement, Tony. T-M took over the molds for the TruScale Hart car and work equipment. The T-M reefers were part of the series of modular tools that produced the X29, both single and double sheathed boxcars, and both wood and steel sheathed reefers, all with various interchangeable roofs and ends, but only the reefer underframe for all the cars. I seem to recall the T-M line stood on its own alongside the TruScale plastic cars; took them over sometime later when Truscale wanted to exit the freight car business.

Dennis Storzek




Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

I think you are reading more than there is in the original statement, Tony. T-M took over the molds for the TruScale Hart car and work equipment.


       That's fine, and it means that the styrene Tru-Scale cars were NOT duplicates of the Silver Streak creations. That was my main point: the Silver Streak "craftsman" kit is NOT the same as the subsequent injection-molded car, whatever its parentage.

I seem to recall the T-M line stood on its own alongside the TruScale plastic cars; took them over sometime later when Truscale wanted to exit the freight car business.


      Thank you. That's a simple summary and doesn't conflict with the point I was trying to make.        Tony


Rhbale@...
 

The Tru-Scale, Silver Streak, Train-Miniature, and Walthers Hart gondolas were all one and the same. They may have had some upgrades along the way, but there was only one basic tool.

 

The following is probably more than you care to know, but if you are interested, here is the back story.

 

The name Tru-Scale was well-known in the hobby as a supplier of milled wood HO scale roadbed and trackwork. In the late 1950 the owner, August “Augie” Kniff, realized the future of model railroading was in plastic, not wood. Tooling was developed for several basic HO building kits and in 1957 Kniff began work on a Hart convertible gondola. The tool maker is unknown but Kniff’s friend, Clarence Menteer of Model Die Casting, is a favored candidate. The Hart gondola kit was announced to the dealer trade in November 1957 with a tentative shipping date of January 1958. The retail price was set at $3.25. Considering the two-step wholesale-dealer pricing structure in those days, Tru-scale would receive $1.46 for each gondola shipped out the door. Kniff was concerned about the Tru-Scale brand not being known as a source for rolling stock, so he also marketed the Hart gondola under the Silver Streak brand name, another near-by company in which he had a vested interest. Kniff also had an interest in G. F. Harbin Co., a major west coast distributor of model railroad supplies.

 

Toward the end of 1958 a 25-ton locomotive crane was added to the Tru-Scale line. The HO crane was followed by the introduction of a group of seven work cars (kitchen car, bunk car, tool car, boom tender, flat car, Hart ballast car, and caboose). It is unclear if the crane or any of the work cars were ever marketed under the Silver Streak brand. It is also unclear which of the work cars, if any, were newly tooled by Tru-Scale and which may have been purchased in bulk from other Southern California suppliers -- a common practice at that time.  

 

It is worth noting that Harbin, Tru-Scale, Silver Streak, and Suydam were within a few miles of each other, while Athearn and Model Die Casting were less than 30 minutes away.    

 

Tru-Scale suffered a major fire in the summer of 1959. In planning the rebuild it was decided to concentrate on expanding the plastics department. The line of wood bridges and mat board structures that Tru-Scale had purchased earlier from Ayres Scale Models, were sold to Ed Suydam. Suydam did not like cutting all the wood necessary to support (no pun intended) the bridge and trestle line and found a buyer in Leo Campbell who was in the process of launching Campbell Scale Models.

 

In 1958 tooling for Tru-Scale’s work train, including the Hart gondola, was sold to Ted Hollow of Balboa Scale Models. Hollow was preparing to launch Train Miniature. He had new tooling prepared for his series of reefers and boxcars, but the work train cars came from Tru-Scale. Hollow experienced some personal difficulties in the early 1970s and liquidated both Train-Miniature and Balboa. Train-Miniature was sold to Train-Miniature of Illinois, who sold the line to Walthers in 1984.   

 

 
Richard Bale
 


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tony,

You may be right about that. I never owned a Tru-Scale plastic gondola. Mine were both T-M. Unless of course, you are comparing it to the Silver Streak kit. The differences there are obvious. The rest of the SS MOW line was eventually duplicated in plastic by Tru-Scale, and these cars passed to T-M without much modification, of that I am certain.

Yours Aye,


 Garth

On 10/19/15 5:51 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Garth Groff wrote:

 

IIRC, the Tru-Scale Hart car was the same as the T-M. T-M bought the whole Tru-Scale line of work cars and offered them without any changes, except for including T-M trucks (and a lot of phoney roadnames).


      As it happens, Garth, you don't recall correectly. T-M may well have bought the Tru-Scale line, but the T-M version of the Hart gondola is quite different, including moving the underbody truss out to the side sills.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tony,

We were only talking about the MOW line, not the rest of the T-M kits. Weren't the T-M boxcars, reefers and stock cars tooled by Fred Becker? I seem to remember Richard saying that in post a couple of years ago.

Yours Aye,


Garth

On 10/19/15 6:08 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Elements of both statements are correct. The original Silver Streak/Tru-Scale wood and zamac models became the injection molded and labeled Tru-Scale kits. Those molds were subsequently purchased and used to produce injection molded kits under the Train Miniature label.


   It may be true that the Silver Streak/Tru-Scale kits were the starting point for design of the T-M molds, but they obviously were not copies directly; the reefers, for example, are correct size in the T-M line, not 10 percent oversize as were the Silver Streak versions. So calling the T-M kits just injection-molded Silver Streak is clearly wrong.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Jim Betz
 

HI,

Instead of commenting on "what was" (long ago) ... I'll comment on "what is". I
have seen one of the Dry Creek models and they are -very- nice. If you are unhappy
with one of these - that's on you and not on Dry Creek. Is it perfect in every detail -
probably not (but I wouldn't know because I don't check for that stuff).

** Rant On **

- Phooey -

Model railroading is a series of compromises. Some are big and some are minor.
The compromises that might be associated with the choice of a freight car model -
as long as we aren't including the "toy manufacturers" in the list of possible
choices - is minor ... no matter what 'flaws/errors' might be encountered.
Should the mfgrs do "as good a job as possible" when they produce a new
model? Of course they should. Should we hold their feet to the fire for not
being "perfect"? Absolutely not. If there are a lot of errors - and you care if
the width of the car is 4 scale inches off of correct - then don't buy it. If
you've already purchased it and you find it lacking ... then sell it on eBay.

But PLEASE ... let's not degrade this list with yet another very long thread
about what might/might not be done on a model you haven't ever even
held in your own hands and inspected it your self. Thanks if you didn't
post something or other based upon this post.

** You will now be returned to your regularly scheduled programming **
(While I wait to see if this gets me put into moderate jail.)
- Jim B.


Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

 

We were only talking about the MOW line, not the rest of the T-M kits. Weren't the T-M boxcars, reefers and stock cars tooled by Fred Becker? I seem to remember Richard saying that in post a couple of years ago.

       I seem to recall blanket statements about all the T-M kits coming from Tru-Scale / Silver Streak. But no matter: I believe ALL the T-M cars are correct size, not just the reefers, etc., showing that they were ALL redesigned vs. Silver Streak.  I don't know who tooled the T-M cars, but I'm sure some on this list do know.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history