main@RealSTMFC.groups.io | USRA steel-side rebuild boxes

D. Scott Chatfield

#138185

I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032.  I know the Georgia had them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service.  But since I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions.  Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?

Scott Chatfield

Todd Horton

#138186

The roofs are wrong for the Ga RR cars.

Todd Horton
Southeast Machine Tool Sales
3123 Maple Rd
Lindale Ga 30147
678-264-7448

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Thu, 10/22/15, blindog@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 Subject: [STMFC] USRA steel-side rebuild boxes
 To: STMFC@...
 Date: Thursday, October 22, 2015, 4:09 PM

 
  









       I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt
 single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032.  I know the Georgia had
 them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service.  But since
 I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the
 Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions.  Tichy's catalog
 says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by
 whom?


 
 Scott Chatfield











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water.kresse@...

#138187

The C&O had them with side-assembly kits added and a 9" plate added in end panels to raise their roofs to standard ARR height for the era. They are shown in the new C&O HS C&O Freight Cars 1937-1846 book . . . some also made it into converted coke cars in the late-1930s thru WW2.

Al Kresse

Show quoted text

From: "blindog@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 4:09:57 PM
Subject: [STMFC] USRA steel-side rebuild boxes

I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032. I know the Georgia had them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service. But since I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions. Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?

Scott Chatfield

water.kresse@...

#138188

Correction . . . in 1954-61 for the converted coke cars from USRA w/steel sheathing box cars. Al Kresse

Show quoted text

From: "blindog@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 4:09:57 PM
Subject: [STMFC] USRA steel-side rebuild boxes

I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032. I know the Georgia had them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service. But since I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions. Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?

Scott Chatfield

Benjamin Hom

#138189

Scott Chatfield asked:

"I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032. I know the Georgia had them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service. But since I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions. Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?"

Al Kresse replied:
"The C&O had them with side-assembly kits added and a 9" plate added in end panels to raise their roofs to standard [AAR] height for the era. They are shown in the new C&O HS C&O Freight Cars 1937-1846 book . . . some also made it into converted coke cars in the late-1930s thru WW2."

Al, I'm skeptical regarding your answer. Read Scott's question carefully - this is the Tichy kit of the USRA SS boxcar rebuilds that retained the side trusses, NOT the rebuilt boxcar with the 8-panel steel sides (#4028).

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/ProductID/696/Default.aspx

Did these C&O rebuilds retain their exposed trusses? If not, this doesn't answer the mail.

Ben Hom

Benjamin Hom

#138190

Scott Chatfield asked:
"I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032. I know the Georgia had them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service. But since I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions. Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?"

To follow up to Todd Horton's answer, this model is closest to the Georgia railroad rebuilds, but the roof is incorrect. Speedwitch/Ted Culotta once offered a more accurate model of this prototype. As for "others", there isn't any.

Ben Hom

water.kresse@...

#138191

The C&O cars were double-sheathed with only side-stampings showing at the bottom along the sills.

Al Kresse

Show quoted text

From: "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 5:04:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] USRA steel-side rebuild boxes

Scott Chatfield asked:

"I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032. I know the Georgia had them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service. But since I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions. Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?"

Al Kresse replied:
"The C&O had them with side-assembly kits added and a 9" plate added in end panels to raise their roofs to standard [AAR] height for the era. They are shown in the new C&O HS C&O Freight Cars 1937-1846 book . . . some also made it into converted coke cars in the late-1930s thru WW2."

Al, I'm skeptical regarding your answer. Read Scott's question carefully - this is the Tichy kit of the USRA SS boxcar rebuilds that retained the side trusses, NOT the rebuilt boxcar with the 8-panel steel sides (#4028).

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/ProductID/696/Default.aspx

Did these C&O rebuilds retain their exposed trusses? If not, this doesn't answer the mail.

Ben Hom

Benjamin Scanlon

#138194

Gentlemen,

I am no expert but I have not seen (yet) any other RR's cars with the particular features of the GaRR USRA s/s rebuild. There were at least two kinds of roofs on the GaRR cars, some having a flat steel sheet roof:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/grr/ga19733jpa.jpg

and others had radial roofs with - I think - 13 raised cross members.

Don't know but I guess there could have been other roof styles.

Do not confuse these rebuilds with the GarRR and West Point Route rebuilt ARA boxcars which I think were rebuilt later, I do not think they gained height in the rebuild as they still had the 7/8 end. Some had diagonal panel roofs, but as you would expect they do not have USRA style trusses, most had steel panel sides, though I think some had vertical trusses (no diagonal trusses.)

Ben Scanlon

London, England

Bill Welch

#138195

The A&WP rebuilds Ben refers to were from an entirely different group of cars and a different design from the USRA cars. A&WP, WofA and Georgia all owned SS cars with hat section Pratt bracing. Many of these cars were rebuilt with all-steel superstructures. Jim Hayes' Sunshine kits resource can be helpful in understanding this group of rebuilds.

Bill Welch

Eric Lombard

#138196

Hello, Scott, et al...

"Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?"

I know of only one other series of USRA single-sheathed cars rebuilt as single-sheathed with steel: ERIE 71800-71999 rebuilt 1936-37 from ERIE 92500 92699. In addition to steel sheathing they received Climax radial roofs, Youngstown doors, and had drop grabs instead of ladders.. There is a 1947 photo of ERIE 71952 on p31 in "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet" by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta.

Eric Lombard

Homewood, IL

rericlombard at gmail.com

elombard at uchicago.edu

Show quoted text

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 3:09 PM, blindog@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I have the Tichy USRA steel-side rebuilt single-sheathed boxcar kit, #4032. I know the Georgia had them, I even shot one years ago in MofW service. But since I live in Georgia everyone here has one of the Tichy-by-Intermountain RTR versions. Tichy's catalog says "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?

Scott Chatfield

Dave Boss

#138198

Hello

I was informed back when the Tichy steel rebuilds came out that they were modeled after the Pittsburgh McKee sport, and Youghiogheny R.R., as well as the P&LE. Not sure about NYC Dave Boss

Benjamin Hom

#138200

Dave Boss wrote:
"I was informed back when the Tichy steel rebuilds came out that they were modeled after the Pittsburgh McKeesport, and Youghiogheny R.R., as well as the P&LE. Not sure about NYC."

People, please read the questions and responses carefully in this thread as things are getting pretty muddled here.

TICHY ISSUED TWO DIFFERENT REBUILT BOXCAR KITS.

Kit #4028 represents a car rebuilt with 8-panel steel sides and is indeed a model of cars rebuilt for the PMcK&Y and P&LE (Lots 630-B and 638-B) only. This kit DOES NOT MODEL any rebuilt boxcars with NYC reporting marks.

The original poster's question was about Kit #4032, a USRA SS boxcar with steel replacing the wood sheathing of the car retaining the exposed steel truss of the original car. It is closest to cars rebuilt by the Georgia RR, but does not accurately model this prototype (or any other) out of the box.

Ben Hom

Benjamin Hom

#138202

Eric Lombard wrote:
Hello, Scott, et al...

"Tichy's catalog says [Kit #4032] "owned by Georgia and others." Okay, by whom?"

I know of only one other series of USRA single-sheathed cars rebuilt as single-sheathed with steel: ERIE 71800-71999 rebuilt 1936-37 from ERIE 92500 92699. In addition to steel sheathing they received Climax radial roofs, Youngstown doors, and had drop grabs instead of ladders.. There is a 1947 photo of ERIE 71952 on p31 in "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet" by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta."

...which isn't modeled accurately by Tichy #4032 either. This kit is the boxcar version of their tank car - a nice model of something that didn't exist. You can definitely modify the model to more accurately model the Georgia or Erie cars, but that takes us out of the realm of "out of the box".

Ben Hom

midrly

#138204

I was able to use this kit to model a CN 470150-470249 series GTW Port Huron shops 1936 steel rebuilt box car. But I had to scratch a fishbelly underframe and modify the ends.  

Steve Lucas.

Dennis Storzek

#138206

---In STMFC@..., <lucas@...> wrote :

I was able to use this kit to model a CN 470150-470249 series GTW Port Huron shops 1936 steel rebuilt box car. But I had to scratch a fishbelly underframe and modify the ends.

Steve Lucas.
===========
One of the reasons that Tichy was never able to offer a model of a "common" USRA rebuilt car was that most rebuilds started life as USRA double sheathed cars, which were some of the last wood framed cars built, and thus ripe for major frame work by the mid thirties. The fact that there was 25,000 of them built, plus an unknown number of "clones", gave an incentive for Youngstown Steel Door to develop an off-the-shelf prefabricated steel car side for these cars. Some very few roads, most notably NYC, also adapted these car side "kits" to their USRA single sheathed cars. The Tichy USRA kit is for the single sheathed car, and thus he lacked the fishbelly underframe. He did at least pick the PMcK&Y cars for the prototype, so his kit is correct for those cars.

The two major differences between the rebuilt single and double sheathed cars is the underframe, as mentioned above, which can be solved by substituting an Accurail floor and fishbelly underframe, and the treatment of the ends. The original double sheathed cars had wide ends; almost wide enough to fit the sides built to give the rebuilt cars a wider IW, and the small difference was usually handled by a joggle in the edge of the last end sheet. The single sheathed cars had considerably narrower ends, and the rebuilds typically added an angle to the outside of the end to connect it to the new sides, which is what Tichy correctly models. Some few double sheathed rebuilds also used the angle, but it was bu no means typical.

Dennis Storzek

Clark Propst

#138238

The GARR also had some cars with vertical outside posts. I would like to know more about them. Would make an interesting modeling project.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>

#138245

Clark,

I assume you are thinking of GA 19500 to 19799. These were 40' 6" IL, 8' 6" IW, and 9' IH with a 100T capacity from 3098 cubic feet. A photo can be found on page 39 of Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, V.1. The example car has 8 vertical posts on its sides, a 6' Youngston door, 7/8 ends and what appears to be a peaked roof. The sides are a dark gray, and the ends, roof and part of the side behind the ladder are black. There is no fishbelly underframe showing. It is quite a striking paint scheme, and a very interesting car.

I have no idea what these cars were built from, though the lack of a fishebelly underframe and 7/8 ends suggests something on the order of a 1920s single-sheathed USRA clone.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

Show quoted text

On 10/26/15 10:16 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] wrote:

The GARR also had some cars with vertical outside posts. I would like to know more about them. Would make an interesting modeling project.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Benjamin Scanlon

#138246

Hello Clark

I assume you mean these :

http://rr-fallenflags.org/grr/ga29382ajs.jpg

and I believe from past conversations, these also may have been were rebuilt from the 1923 ARA cars. I think the series was 29300-29449.

I am not sure whether all that series had the vertical posts, and they do not seemed to have notched corners on the ends, either. Possibly Justin or Bob Hanson may now.

Regards

Ben Scanlon

London, England