Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars


david ellzey
 

Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave


Eric Hansmann
 

There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 




Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.

The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.

I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.

Dave




Tony Thompson
 

David Ellzey wrote:

 
Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

     As Eric Hansmann pointed out, the Accurail model has some differences. But more important for SP modeling, all its original USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service were rebuilt in 1949-50 into steel-sheathed cars, which bore almost no relation to any Accurail model. I can direct you to published info on those cars if that is really what you are looking for.
     The SP cars were built with entirely conventional corrugated ends, and when rebuilt, had their height extended with parts of other corrugated ends. I don't know what you are referring to by "dreadnaught," unless you are actually talking about the ARA-like cars SP built in the mid-1920s (changed, however, from the ARA design). IF you mean those, I can make suggestions.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





david ellzey
 

Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?
Dave
 


From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 



Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave





Tony Thompson
 

Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?

     THe SP cars were exact USRA cars and were built in 1919. Some had Hutchins roofs, some did not; all had 5-5-5 ends. Can't speak for other roads. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





david ellzey
 

The B-50-13 and 14's are of more interest to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. You can contact me offline if you wish.

Thanks,
Dave
 


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
David Ellzey wrote:

 
Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

     As Eric Hansmann pointed out, the Accurail model has some differences. But more important for SP modeling, all its original USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service were rebuilt in 1949-50 into steel-sheathed cars, which bore almost no relation to any Accurail model. I can direct you to published info on those cars if that is really what you are looking for.
     The SP cars were built with entirely conventional corrugated ends, and when rebuilt, had their height extended with parts of other corrugated ends. I don't know what you are referring to by "dreadnaught," unless you are actually talking about the ARA-like cars SP built in the mid-1920s (changed, however, from the ARA design). IF you mean those, I can make suggestions.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Eric Hansmann
 

Technically, those were not USRA cars as the USRA stopped functioning on March 1, 1920. Cars built during the 1920s that mostly followed a USRA design have commonly been called clones in the model press. True USRA box cars did not have 7/8 corrugated steel ends or Hutchins roof hardware.

 

For a pocket summary of the USRA and a list of the car assignments they made, check out this page on my blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

Here’s a magazine to unearth. The February 1993 RMJ article is a good reference for the Accurail 4100 and 4300 series kits. Here's a link to review Richard Hendrickson's original article. Most of this article remains available on the Trainlife site. Page 20 and additional pages go dead, but clicking on the Show Page Text link offers a hint of the content without images. It seems there was no data table provided for the article.

http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/144/10388/february-1993-page-14

 

From Richard's article, I gather the following prototypes are best reflected by the Accurail 4100 series model.

 

CN 500500-503499 - 1000 cars built in 1923, 1924, and 1927, for 3000 total cars.

 

Additionally, automobile box cars (XA) built to the same design, but with an added half door for the 10-foot door opening.

 

CN 580000-580999 - 1000 cars built in 1923

GTW 581000-581999 - 1000 cars built in 1923

GT 33000-35999 - 200 cars built in 1923 but with corrugated steel ends (4300 series kits)

 

Many of these XA class cars were rebuilt in the 1930s with a narrower door opening and only a single door per side, becoming XM class cars.

 

Additionally, there were similar prototypes on the CB&Q, CNJ, and SP Lines (to name a few) that differed in overall height and hardware appliances.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 5:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 




Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?

Dave
 


From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 

 

There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 



Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.

The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.

I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.

Dave

 

 



david ellzey
 

The USRA clones seem close to the Accurail cars without doing precise measuring. With revised underframe, separate grabs and ladders they would look quite decent.
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.
Thanks for all the info, it will be a big help.
Dave
 


From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Technically, those were not USRA cars as the USRA stopped functioning on March 1, 1920. Cars built during the 1920s that mostly followed a USRA design have commonly been called clones in the model press. True USRA box cars did not have 7/8 corrugated steel ends or Hutchins roof hardware.
 
For a pocket summary of the USRA and a list of the car assignments they made, check out this page on my blog.
 
Here’s a magazine to unearth. The February 1993 RMJ article is a good reference for the Accurail 4100 and 4300 series kits. Here's a link to review Richard Hendrickson's original article. Most of this article remains available on the Trainlife site. Page 20 and additional pages go dead, but clicking on the Show Page Text link offers a hint of the content without images. It seems there was no data table provided for the article.
 
From Richard's article, I gather the following prototypes are best reflected by the Accurail 4100 series model.
 
CN 500500-503499 - 1000 cars built in 1923, 1924, and 1927, for 3000 total cars.
 
Additionally, automobile box cars (XA) built to the same design, but with an added half door for the 10-foot door opening.
 
CN 580000-580999 - 1000 cars built in 1923
GTW 581000-581999 - 1000 cars built in 1923
GT 33000-35999 - 200 cars built in 1923 but with corrugated steel ends (4300 series kits)
 
Many of these XA class cars were rebuilt in the 1930s with a narrower door opening and only a single door per side, becoming XM class cars.
 
Additionally, there were similar prototypes on the CB&Q, CNJ, and SP Lines (to name a few) that differed in overall height and hardware appliances.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 5:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 



Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?
Dave
 

From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 
 
There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 

 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 


Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave
 
 




Tony Thompson
 

Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





david ellzey
 

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
 


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Eric Hansmann
 

I recommend you get a copy of the ORER for the year of your focus or the year before. Compile some fleet numbers and check what older cars are still running. The 1953 K brake ban sent lots of freight cars to scrap. 

And I would not ignore the Canadian box car fleet. Newsprint from Canada was used all over. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

On Oct 26, 2015, at 8:15 PM, david ellzey davidellzey1@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
 

From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







david ellzey
 

That's just from my vague recollections of the 1950's, not seeing any Canadian rail cars here in Louisiana.
Dave
 


From: "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
I recommend you get a copy of the ORER for the year of your focus or the year before. Compile some fleet numbers and check what older cars are still running. The 1953 K brake ban sent lots of freight cars to scrap. 

And I would not ignore the Canadian box car fleet. Newsprint from Canada was used all over. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



On Oct 26, 2015, at 8:15 PM, david ellzey davidellzey1@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
 

From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history









Marty McGuirk
 

For anything you've ever wanted to know about CN steam-era boxcars see -


Canadian National Railways


Dave,


While I acknowledge CN cars would have likely to be seen less frequently on the T&NO than, say, the GN or Maine Central, the fact is the CN (and CP) represented a very large percentage of the North American boxcar fleet - so many that it's hard to imagine not having one or two show up on a railroad, even in the deep south.


Search the list archives for never-ending discussions of "boxcar percentages" and "freight car fleet percentages" and similar terms and you'll see how much time and effort has been expended on statistical research and sheer speculation on this topic.


So if you include one or two CN cars in your car fleet no one vaguely familiar with steam era freight car distribution would bat an eye. But the cars represented by the Accurail cars are not a terribly large percentage of the CN car fleet, meaning that if you want to have one or two Canadian National cars I don't think either of them should be the Accurail car, especially if you're modeling any time after 1940 or so.

CN had the single largest fleet of 40'-6" 10-panel steel cars built to the "1937 AAR" design (with some of them having unique variations of ends and roofs.)

If you wanted to have one or two representative CN cars for a late steam era/transition era road those would be the ones I'd suggest.


Marty



destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <davidellzey1@...> wrote :

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
===============

I think the point you are missing is that while USRA cars had custom designed pressed "hat section" side posts, the Accurail kit models the similar cars that used structural Z section posts. The argument of the designers of the USRA car was that the pressed posts were a more efficient use of steel. The objection of many railroads was that they wanted cars that could be repaired with commonly available material. Both are valid arguments, and different railroads bought different cars because of it.

While the Accurail model was developed from drawings of a Canadian car, it is similar in dimensions and details to a lot of cars owned by the Burlington; also their C&S and FW&D subsidiaries. I suspect FW&D cars were pretty common in T&NO territory.

Dennis Storzek





david ellzey
 

That is a VERY comprehensive list of CN boxcar info. Your insight on Canadian cars in the deep south is very interesting. Thanks for all the information.
Dave
 


From: "mjmcguirk@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
For anything you've ever wanted to know about CN steam-era boxcars see -


Dave,

While I acknowledge CN cars would have likely to be seen less frequently on the T&NO than, say, the GN or Maine Central, the fact is the CN (and CP) represented a very large percentage of the North American boxcar fleet - so many that it's hard to imagine not having one or two show up on a railroad, even in the deep south.

Search the list archives for never-ending discussions of "boxcar percentages" and "freight car fleet percentages" and similar terms and you'll see how much time and effort has been expended on statistical research and sheer speculation on this topic.

So if you include one or two CN cars in your car fleet no one vaguely familiar with steam era freight car distribution would bat an eye. But the cars represented by the Accurail cars are not a terribly large percentage of the CN car fleet, meaning that if you want to have one or two Canadian National cars I don't think either of them should be the Accurail car, especially if you're modeling any time after 1940 or so.
CN had the single largest fleet of 40'-6" 10-panel steel cars built to the "1937 AAR" design (with some of them having unique variations of ends and roofs.)
If you wanted to have one or two representative CN cars for a late steam era/transition era road those would be the ones I'd suggest.

Marty




david ellzey
 

That's the answer I am looking for. The Accurail car is mostly based on the USRA clones. CB&Q/FW&D would be a good railroad to mode. Thanks for sharing that info Dennis.
Dave
 


From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
===============

I think the point you are missing is that while USRA cars had custom designed pressed "hat section" side posts, the Accurail kit models the similar cars that used structural Z section posts. The argument of the designers of the USRA car was that the pressed posts were a more efficient use of steel. The objection of many railroads was that they wanted cars that could be repaired with commonly available material. Both are valid arguments, and different railroads bought different cars because of it.

While the Accurail model was developed from drawings of a Canadian car, it is similar in dimensions and details to a lot of cars owned by the Burlington; also their C&S and FW&D subsidiaries. I suspect FW&D cars were pretty common in T&NO territory.

Dennis Storzek







Jim Mischke
 



I intend to have an Accurail Canadian National single sheath boxcar in low grade service on my Pittsburgh layout theme.  They would be hauling lead ore for galzanizubg steel or raw hides (there was a tannery in Mckeesport).   I model 1964-65, this traffic would be good before that, in the steam era.

Canadian National stencilled their boxcars with a black letter A, B, C, D in a yellow circle, however this was started in 1962.   I beleive these ratings predated the stencil practice.   "A" was for spifffy condition, fit for newsprint, where any foreign objects would screw up customer high speed presses.   "D' was bad, unfit for any future lading after lead or hides, for example.