3-D printers


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

    Monoprice has a couple of 3-D printers, one at $399 and one at $599.  Not sure if these are the normal price range or good prices.
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Bruce Smith
 

Jon,

These are monofilament extrusion printers,  For model work, they’re crap.  I don’t know how many times we have to say it, but the resolution of “bargain” 3D printers is insufficient to produce satisfactory parts for models.  PERIOD.  Someone will likely chime in with a pie in the sky view of what MIGHT be coming and yes, it might be coming.  But right now, it ain’t here and as Tom Madden and others who actually use this technology repeatedly point out, to get the resolution that modelers need, you need the really really expensive machines...

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 27, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



    Monoprice has a couple of 3-D printers, one at $399 and one at $599.  Not sure if these are the normal price range or good prices.
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS




Pierre Oliver
 

I had planned to stay out of this, but to reinforce what Bruce is saying;
I had a test print made of an HO scale ACF proprietary roof at Shapeways. It cost me $25.00 to print. The resolution was not remotely good enough to cast from for production runs. Rough texture, etc.
The same CAD drawing was sent to another high end printer and I paid $200.00 for the part and it's as smooth as any resin part you've ever seen. That I can use for creating masters.
It might be useful to stop calling it 3D printing and refer to it as it really is, "Rapid Prototyping".
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 10/27/15 11:42 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Jon,


These are monofilament extrusion printers,  For model work, they’re crap.  I don’t know how many times we have to say it, but the resolution of “bargain” 3D printers is insufficient to produce satisfactory parts for models.  PERIOD.  Someone will likely chime in with a pie in the sky view of what MIGHT be coming and yes, it might be coming.  But right now, it ain’t here and as Tom Madden and others who actually use this technology repeatedly point out, to get the resolution that modelers need, you need the really really expensive machines...

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 27, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



    Monoprice has a couple of 3-D printers, one at $399 and one at $599.  Not sure if these are the normal price range or good prices.
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS





mwbauers
 

If you don’t mind putting on your own rivet/NBW detail, wire steps, grab irons and ladders, the extrusion made models are just fine.

Like the real thing, you’ll need to put on stand alone brake wheel parts and on bracket tag boards.

But those details I mention above are the meat and potatoes of this Yahoo list RR car modeling anyway. You already do it that way.

I got to handle scale models made from the Dremel 3d printer this Sunday. Once you are in tune with the limitations of the process, and work within those restrictions, you’ll do just fine with it.

We don’t have to fret about future advances of the 3d print method that aren’t yet here. What is here can be well and wisely used, as is.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Oct 27, 2015, at 10:42 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' wrote:

Jon,


These are monofilament extrusion printers, For model work, they’re crap. I don’t know how many times we have to say it, but the resolution of “bargain” 3D printers is insufficient to produce satisfactory parts for models. PERIOD. Someone will likely chime in with a pie in the sky view of what MIGHT be coming and yes, it might be coming. But right now, it ain’t here and as Tom Madden and others who actually use this technology repeatedly point out, to get the resolution that modelers need, you need the really really expensive machines...


On Oct 27, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Jon Miller wrote:



Monoprice has a couple of 3-D printers, one at $399 and one at $599. Not sure if these are the normal price range or good prices.


nvrr49@...
 

For freight and passenger cars, I don't see FDM printers ever getting to the quality we require, but they can be used for structures, when the structure can be designed correctly to fit the printer.  Perfectly flat surfaces just don't seem possible with an FDM type printer.  Here is a link to a Frisco section house, and a two story depot where the main building was 3d printed on an FDM printer.  Bricks and concrete blocks also can be done.  Board and Batten siding...too much flat area, and the layering running the wrong direction.


nvrr49.blogspot.com


---In STMFC@..., <smithbf@...> wrote :

Jon,

These are monofilament extrusion printers,  For model work, they’re crap.  I don’t know how many times we have to say it, but the resolution of “bargain” 3D printers is insufficient to produce satisfactory parts for models.  PERIOD.  Someone will likely chime in with a pie in the sky view of what MIGHT be coming and yes, it might be coming.  But right now, it ain’t here and as Tom Madden and others who actually use this technology repeatedly point out, to get the resolution that modelers need, you need the really really expensive machines...

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 


Craig Zeni
 

On Oct 27, 2015, at 7:17 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

5a. Re: 3-D printers
Posted by: "Pierre Oliver" pierre.oliver@elgincarshops.com pierreoliver2003
Date: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:14 pm ((PDT))

I had planned to stay out of this, but to reinforce what Bruce is saying;
I had a test print made of an HO scale ACF proprietary roof at
Shapeways. It cost me $25.00 to print. The resolution was not remotely
good enough to cast from for production runs. Rough texture, etc.
The same CAD drawing was sent to another high end printer and I paid
$200.00 for the part and it's as smooth as any resin part you've ever
seen. That I can use for creating masters.
It might be useful to stop calling it 3D printing and refer to it as it
really is, "Rapid Prototyping".
Brian Banna deals with a rapid prototype company that makes extremely nice parts - he uses them to make parts for Diesels That Don't Exist On This List. But I've seen the parts, handled them...they're gorgeous.


Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Bruce Smith
 

Pierre,

You're showing your age. I'm informed by my engineering friends that the term "rapid prototyping" betrays your age as rapidly approaching that of the dinosaurs.  "3D printing", which came into vogue more recently indicates that you probably know why a floppy disk is called a "floppy disk", and use of the current term "additive manufacturing" will get you invited to all the cool, hip parties (except we're talking engineers here and so their definition of "cool" "hip" and "party" may differ from your own ).

Just trying to help you keep up,
Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:02 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 3-D printers



I had planned to stay out of this, but to reinforce what Bruce is saying;
I had a test print made of an HO scale ACF proprietary roof at Shapeways. It cost me $25.00 to print. The resolution was not remotely good enough to cast from for production runs. Rough texture, etc.
The same CAD drawing was sent to another high end printer and I paid $200.00 for the part and it's as smooth as any resin part you've ever seen. That I can use for creating masters.
It might be useful to stop calling it 3D printing and refer to it as it really is, "Rapid Prototyping".
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 10/27/15 11:42 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Jon,


These are monofilament extrusion printers,  For model work, they’re crap.  I don’t know how many times we have to say it, but the resolution of “bargain” 3D printers is insufficient to produce satisfactory parts for models.  PERIOD.  Someone will likely chime in with a pie in the sky view of what MIGHT be coming and yes, it might be coming.  But right now, it ain’t here and as Tom Madden and others who actually use this technology repeatedly point out, to get the resolution that modelers need, you need the really really expensive machines...

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 27, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



    Monoprice has a couple of 3-D printers, one at $399 and one at $599.  Not sure if these are the normal price range or good prices.
--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS







Charles Peck
 

Butting in here, my engineering background (steam era based, of course) allows me to weigh
in of defining these terms.
"Cool" refers to a condition in a ventilating system.
"Hip" is a shape often found on barn roofs.
"Party" is a term my lawyer uses when I am being sued.
All told, what we have here, is a ventilated boxcar with a unique roof from which is missing
valuable cargo. ( I really like watermelons.)
Chuck Peck in FL

  (except we're talking engineers here and so their definition of "cool" "hip" and "party" may differ from your own ).

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 9:04 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Pierre,

You're showing your age. I'm informed by my engineering friends that the term "rapid prototyping" betrays your age as rapidly approaching that of the dinosaurs.  "3D printing", which came into vogue more recently indicates that you probably know why a floppy disk is called a "floppy disk", and use of the current term "additive manufacturing" will get you invited to all the cool, hip parties (except we're talking engineers here and so their definition of "cool" "hip" and "party" may differ from your own ).

Just trying to help you keep up,
Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:02 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 3-D printers



I had planned to stay out of this, but to reinforce what Bruce is saying;
I had a test print made of an HO scale ACF proprietary roof at Shapeways. It cost me $25.00 to print. The resolution was not remotely good enough to cast from for production runs. Rough texture, etc.
The same CAD drawing was sent to another high end printer and I paid $200.00 for the part and it's as smooth as any resin part you've ever seen. That I can use for creating masters.
It might be useful to stop calling it 3D printing and refer to it as it really is, "Rapid Prototyping".
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 10/27/15 11:42 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Jon,


These are monofilament extrusion printers,  For model work, they’re crap.  I don’t know how many times we have to say it, but the resolution of “bargain” 3D printers is insufficient to produce satisfactory parts for models.  PERIOD.  Someone will likely chime in with a pie in the sky view of what MIGHT be coming and yes, it might be coming.  But right now, it ain’t here and as Tom Madden and others who actually use this technology repeatedly point out, to get the resolution that modelers need, you need the really really expensive machines...

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 27, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



    Monoprice has a couple of 3-D printers, one at $399 and one at $599.  Not sure if these are the normal price range or good prices.
--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS








twinstarcars
 

Fun to read through these posts. I have used the various types of machines, laser cured liquid, deposited wax, jetted resin, heat activated powders, sintered metal. I have also built machines early in my career. The resolution of the layers is where the quality of the finished part lies.  Additionally each and every process has its materials and mechanical properties. Yes a poorly printed model that is fragile will not withstand the non owners strong hands, but let's be honest, that same goon will ruin the separate ladders on any model, it doesn't have to be 3D printed. 
Ok, so I will post my latest 3D item, it's a stake pocket for a Rock Island flat car. Sure you I could include them in the kit when released, but they are brittle and will serve better as a master. I'm thankful for the help of this group in pushing me to go the extra mile and make parts like this.

Ross Dando
Meridian, Idaho