Prototype info for the new Accurail box car


Eric Hansmann
 

With the recent Accurail announcement of an HO scale 36-foot, double-sheathed box car, I have compiled prototype details and photos so modelers can understand the potential for the new kits. Here's the link to my blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2015/11/19/new-box-car-coming-soon/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


Bill Welch
 

In addition to the L&N cars I mentioned in a previous post and Eric's very well done Blog post there are two 36-ft DS cars I was not aware of pictured in Ted Culotta;s most recent auction.

Illinois Northern IN 1649 36' double sheathed box car 3x5 photo

 

Delaware Lackawanna & Western DL&W 42295 36' box car 3x5 builder's photo

 



Keep in mind that the MDC 36-ft reefers and boxcars are also potential candidates for modeling various 36-ft boxcars, the reefer version because it is easy to glue a boxcar door to the side. However their roofs are wood but styrene can be easily laminated on for base to create new roof. I cannot remember where I have seen them but someone has already posted somewhere photos of models using the MDC cars as a starting point.

Bill Welch


 


Ray Breyer
 

Bill Welch wrote:
In addition to the L&N cars I mentioned in a previous post and Eric's very well done Blog post there are two
36-ft DS cars I was not aware of pictured in Ted Culotta's most recent auction.
Illinois Northern IN 1649 36' double sheathed box car
Delaware Lackawanna & Western DL&W 42295 36' b...

Hi Bill,

The DL&W car is pretty much the "common standard" Lackawanna boxcar for the Teens through the early 1930s; the traffic collapse of the Great Depression did them in more than size or age. The IN boxcar is a secondhand C&O car; that road built 2,370 nearly identical short boxcars in 1923 to a common standard. They built 1,750 XMs, 500 VMs and 100 XAs all to the same basic plan. In the mid-1930s the C&O began rebuilding them all to XMs with new roofs and Youngstown doors. Most but not all of the rebuilds got radial roofs.


Keep in mind that the MDC 36-ft reefers and boxcars are also potential candidates for modeling various 36-ft boxcars.
I cannot remember where I have seen them but someone has already posted somewhere photos of models using the
MDC cars as a starting point.
Actually, a bunch of people have been doing this sort of thing for a LONG time. John Nehrich has been doing this sort of thing for decades now, and Eric's blog includes posts from Dave Campbell on converting MDC cars. I've been working on a series of similar articles for the NKPHTS online modeling magazine, and have dozens of MDC conversions scattered all over my workbench (including shortening and lowering cars to match various prototypes). All in all, this new Accurail car will REALLY come in handy for anyone modeling 1910-1950, but there's still a place for kitbash conversions of the old Roundhouse cars as well.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(currently drooling over the idea of XA and VM conversions of the Accurail car!)


Bill Welch
 

Thanks Ray, I have to admit I have wondered what happened to the C&O's ventilated boxcars, and for that matter the N&W's Vents.

A great RPM presentation would be on 36-foot boxcars 1910-1950.

Of coarse, I am am still waiting for someone to do northeastern boxcars aside from PRR, NYC and B&O.

We need new blood doing new presentations.

Bill Welch


Rob & Bev Manley
 

I believe Art Griffin sells decals and resin kits for the earliest of these cars. I have seen beautifully lettered cars of CB&Q lineage at the Naperville RPM and Burlington Route meets.

Rob Manley

5,which is much better than my 3 and still fun size

On Nov 20, 2015, at 9:48 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Ray, I have to admit I have wondered what happened to the C&O's ventilated boxcars, and for that matter the N&W's Vents.


A great RPM presentation would be on 36-foot boxcars 1910-1950.

Of coarse, I am am still waiting for someone to do northeastern boxcars aside from PRR, NYC and B&O.

We need new blood doing new presentations.

Bill Welch


Brian Carlson
 

Bill:
Ray did a presentation on shorty boxcars at Naperville a few years back. 
Also, as I shared with you I am working on a rust belt boxcars. Unfortunately, for me and I presume others, I can't make every RPM out there. I'm lucky to be able to afford one a year. 

Brian J. Carlson

On Nov 20, 2015, at 10:48 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Ray, I have to admit I have wondered what happened to the C&O's ventilated boxcars, and for that matter the N&W's Vents.


A great RPM presentation would be on 36-foot boxcars 1910-1950.

Of coarse, I am am still waiting for someone to do northeastern boxcars aside from PRR, NYC and B&O.

We need new blood doing new presentations.

Bill Welch


Gene Semon
 

Art Griffin has closed his decal & kit business. Tried ordering fist of week & that was his response.

Gen Semon


---- "Rob Manley robev1630@sbcglobal.net [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I believe Art Griffin sells decals and resin kits for the earliest of these cars. I have seen beautifully lettered cars of CB&Q lineage at the Naperville RPM and Burlington Route meets.

Rob Manley

Sent from my iPhone 5,which is much better than my 3 and still fun size

On Nov 20, 2015, at 9:48 AM, fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks Ray, I have to admit I have wondered what happened to the C&O's ventilated boxcars, and for that matter the N&W's Vents.


A great RPM presentation would be on 36-foot boxcars 1910-1950.

Of coarse, I am am still waiting for someone to do northeastern boxcars aside from PRR, NYC and B&O.

We need new blood doing new presentations.

Bill Welch


Bill Welch
 

I am sorry and surprised I missed Ray's presentation.

Brian I know you are are working on Rust Belt Boxcars.

Forgive please my maladroit way of encouraging new people to contribute to the cause.

Bill Welch


David Sieber
 

Group,

     As a reminder, Ray Breyer posted an extremely useful spreadsheet with extensive info on all "shortie" boxcars, including ORER longevity data, at:

     I plan to use it as my basis for ordering one or two Accurail 36-footers for my 1949 display train, and perhaps one for my 1959 main modeling era.  After saving it to my hard drive, I reviewed all 1,382 lines of data by road number, tailoring it to my personal interests by "bolding" the surprising number of cars that survived in interchange in 1959.  Of those 15,137 short boxcars (<2% of the North American boxcar fleet) in 1959, over two-thirds were from Canadian Lines, followed by southeastern US roads (many ventilated), plus a few others. Considering that shorties made up about 44% of the boxcar fleet in 1930, 14% in 1945, and then 4% in 1955 after AB brakes became mandatory, there should be something among Accurail's offerings for many folks on this List.

HTH, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


water.kresse@...
 

C&O had two "modern" series of ventilated box cars.  Which series are we talking about?

Al Kresse
 


From: "Brian carlson prrk41361@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 11:37:00 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototype info for the new Accurail box car

 
Bill:
Ray did a presentation on shorty boxcars at Naperville a few years back. 
Also, as I shared with you I am working on a rust belt boxcars. Unfortunately, for me and I presume others, I can't make every RPM out there. I'm lucky to be able to afford one a year. 

Brian J. Carlson

On Nov 20, 2015, at 10:48 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Ray, I have to admit I have wondered what happened to the C&O's ventilated boxcars, and for that matter the N&W's Vents.


A great RPM presentation would be on 36-foot boxcars 1910-1950.

Of coarse, I am am still waiting for someone to do northeastern boxcars aside from PRR, NYC and B&O.

We need new blood doing new presentations.

Bill Welch




Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
 

Do you know which roof type is being used? I ask because the Rutland owned nearly 500 of the 1912 NYC-design 36' box cars. Half had Murphy XLA roofs, the other half had Hutchins Type-D roofs. They also had wooden ends which from the PDF of the announcement states there will be wooden-end versions coming out. The Rutland cars, 7000-series numbering, saw use all over the United States and Canada into the very-early 1950's. The Rutland Railroad Historical Society magazine, The Newsliner, has a list of railroads where these cars were wrecked and on what railroad. These ranged from the Interstate Railroad in 1913, to on the PRR in 1948. Only one was actually wrecked on the Rutland proper.


Phil


On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Bill Welch wrote:
>>In addition to the L&N cars I mentioned in a previous post and Eric's very well done Blog post there are two
>>36-ft DS cars I was not aware of pictured in Ted Culotta's most recent auction.
>>Illinois Northern IN 1649 36' double sheathed box car
>>Delaware Lackawanna & Western DL&W 42295 36' b...

Hi Bill,

The DL&W car is pretty much the "common standard" Lackawanna boxcar for the Teens through the early 1930s; the traffic collapse of the Great Depression did them in more than size or age. The IN boxcar is a secondhand C&O car; that road built 2,370 nearly identical short boxcars in 1923 to a common standard. They built 1,750 XMs, 500 VMs and 100 XAs all to the same basic plan. In the mid-1930s the C&O began rebuilding them all to XMs with new roofs and Youngstown doors. Most but not all of the rebuilds got radial roofs.

>>Keep in mind that the MDC 36-ft reefers and boxcars are also potential candidates for modeling various 36-ft boxcars.
>>I cannot remember where I have seen them but someone has already posted somewhere photos of models using the
>>MDC cars as a starting point.

Actually, a bunch of people have been doing this sort of thing for a LONG time. John Nehrich has been doing this sort of thing for decades now, and Eric's blog includes posts from Dave Campbell on converting MDC cars. I've been working on a series of similar articles for the NKPHTS online modeling magazine, and have dozens of MDC conversions scattered all over my workbench (including shortening and lowering cars to match various prototypes). All in all, this new Accurail car will REALLY come in handy for anyone modeling 1910-1950, but there's still a place for kitbash conversions of the old Roundhouse cars as well.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(currently drooling over the idea of XA and VM conversions of the Accurail car!)

 



Ray Breyer
 

C&O had two "modern" series of ventilated box cars. 
Which series are we talking about?
Al Kresse
The short ones, of course. :-)

(the 86500-86999, not the 87000-87499)

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Ray Breyer
 

I am sorry and surprised I missed Ray's presentation.
Brian I know you are are working on Rust Belt Boxcars.
Bill Welch

Actually, I should really dust off that presentation and give it again soon, given that we now have a new reason to showcase the car type to the hobby.

I gave a presentation at the 2008 Naperville RPM on short boxcars after 1945, and a companion talk on single sheathed boxcars after 1945 the year after that. Both were HUGE hits, to the point that the crowds were spilling out into the aisles and Martin asked me to give the talks additional times during the day. They were fairly basic overviews, but I think that in many cases we need that sort of general information out there. The crowds seemed to agree!

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


MDelvec952
 




-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Nov 20, 2015 10:13 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototype info for the new Accurail box car

 
Bill Welch wrote:
>>In addition to the L&N cars I mentioned in a previous post and Eric's very well done Blog post there are two
>>36-ft DS cars I was not aware of pictured in Ted Culotta's most recent auction.
>>Illinois Northern IN 1649 36' double sheathed box car
>>Delaware Lackawanna & Western DL&W 42295 36' b...

Hi Bill,

The DL&W car is pretty much the "common standard" Lackawanna boxcar for the Teens through the early 1930s; the traffic collapse of the Great Depression did them in more than size or age. The IN boxcar is a secondhand C&O car; that road built 2,370 nearly identical short boxcars in 1923 to a common standard. They built 1,750 XMs, 500 VMs and 100 XAs all to the same basic plan. In the mid-1930s the C&O began rebuilding them all to XMs with new roofs and Youngstown doors. Most but not all of the rebuilds got radial roofs.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(currently drooling over the idea of XA and VM conversions of the Accurail car!)
The DL&W had a few groups of these.  The 42000-43499 series were built with the reverse Murphy ends. Within the 40000-series were cars with double-sheathed ends and indestructible ends, and some of both types were rebuilt with reverse Murphy ends. The 43500-43599 series were built with standard Murphy ends. After WWII the numbers of 36' cars were dwindling on the Road of Anthracite, but the 43500s soldiered on in service into the early 1950s, many repainted in the Phoebe Snow billboard paint scheme. It is the 43500-batch that shows up in most photos with modern lettering. I helped preserve and restore the sole survivor of these cars, the 43651 currently on display inside the Steamtown roundhouse. It had been sold to Norton Abrasives in Massachusetts in the 1960s(?). I tried to do the same with 42705 that was a roadside shed about 15 miles north. The process of preserving it is what got it scrapped, and it was the one I wanted to restore most since it had the reverse Murphy ends.
In the 1990s I thought about converting a couple of the F&C New Haven 36' resin boxcars into DL&W cars, but adapting Murphy ends to it didn't have the right look, so to clear the bench I completed the New Haven car and never got back to to building the DL&W car.  Very much looking forward to seeing what can be done with this new Accurail offering.
                        ....Mike Del Vecchio

 


Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <pblancher@...> wrote :

Do you know which roof type is being used? I ask because the Rutland owned nearly 500 of the 1912 NYC-design 36' box cars. Half had Murphy XLA roofs, the other half had Hutchins Type-D roofs.
====================

It could be a Murphy XLA; it's whatever NYC was using to replace the original roofs during the twenties. I say "could be" because both Hutchins and Chicago-Cleveland had similar competing products, and the builder drawings don't specify which it is. Why would builder drawings show replacement roofs? Because the NYC was having a lot of their earlier wood underframe cars rebuilt with steel UF's (which retained truss rods), apparently under contract at either Pullman or H&B; maybe both. Very likely the roofs were replaced at the same time.

The lead photo of Eric's Blog page shows an NYC car built in '12 with a re-weigh in '22, and the roof has been replaced already.

Back to the XLA roof, it has flat featureless rectangular seam caps, as do both competitors. The Hutchins Type D roof, however, has round seam caps.

Dennis Storzek



Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
 

According to the article by Jeff English I am looking at from the Spring 2000 issue of the RRHS magazine "The Newsliner":

"Apparently when built, two different roof types were applied in equal numbers. Murphy XLA roofs were used on 7000-7249, and cab be spotted by counting twelve battens of flat rectangular cross-section. The final 250 cars received Hutchins Type-D roofs (not to be confused with the later style of Hutchins roof used by many other railroads in the 1920's and 1930's), which are differentiated from the Murphy by their sixteen seam caps that are much narrow than the Murphy battens."

Phil


On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 8:02 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Do you know which roof type is being used? I ask because the Rutland owned nearly 500 of the 1912 NYC-design 36' box cars. Half had Murphy XLA roofs, the other half had Hutchins Type-D roofs.
====================

It could be a Murphy XLA; it's whatever NYC was using to replace the original roofs during the twenties. I say "could be" because both Hutchins and Chicago-Cleveland had similar competing products, and the builder drawings don't specify which it is. Why would builder drawings show replacement roofs? Because the NYC was having a lot of their earlier wood underframe cars rebuilt with steel UF's (which retained truss rods), apparently under contract at either Pullman or H&B; maybe both. Very likely the roofs were replaced at the same time.

The lead photo of Eric's Blog page shows an NYC car built in '12 with a re-weigh in '22, and the roof has been replaced already.

Back to the XLA roof, it has flat featureless rectangular seam caps, as do both competitors. The Hutchins Type D roof, however, has round seam caps.

Dennis Storzek




np328
 

    Ray,
   A reprise of these presentations, I would endorse that idea greatly. Going to Naperville since well before 2008, I do not recall sitting in on your presentations, and see I missed something I would now very much like to see.

   Looking back, at that time frame we had a overflowing pool of great presentations and presenters and, mentally walking down the hallway north from the lobby past the guard, there must have been six or more rooms to choose presentations from  for many hours at the former HI site if I recall correctly.
                                                                                                                      Jim Dick - St. Paul, MN


Tony Thompson
 

Jim Dick wrote:

 
Looking back, at that time frame we had a overflowing pool of great presentations and presenters and, mentally walking down the hallway north from the lobby past the guard, there must have been six or more rooms to choose presentations from  for many hours at the former HI site if I recall correctly.

      I would agree, Jim, that it used to be that way, and would add that it's quite a contrast to the last few years.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





ed_mines
 

There's a photo of a 36 ft. double sheathed DL&W box car in one of the Tabor books with the steel end Accurail plans to use.


RDG had similar cars with Hutcheons roofs. I don't know for sure but I'll bet many of the cars were originally built with T&G roofs. How about separate roofs Dennis?


You can get an idea of which railroads had 36 ft  box cars from charts in the back of the ORERs at a particular time.. Not many in the 1943 NMRA reprint issue.


Ed Mines


Eric Hansmann
 

Ed,

 

Several years ago I went through the NMRA 1943 ORER reprint and tabulated house cars with an interior length than 40-foot. These included stock, automobile, auto parts, ventilated, insulated, and furniture cars. There were just over 107,000 listed for US railroads. I did not count the Canadian lines, which would probably double the quantity.

 

From a small graph in Kline & Culotta’s “Postwar Freight Car Fleet,” it looks like there were 1.8 million freight cars in service on Class I and II US railroads (page 2) in 1946. Another table on page 1 notes box and automobile cars were 36.4% of the 1946 US fleet, while stock and poultry cars were 2.7%.  Of the 1.8 million freight cars, 39% were a house car, or 702,000 cars. I am not including refrigerator cars here as most were not owned directly by a railroad company. If we take that 1943 total of shorter house cars in comparison to the 1946 overall house car figure, about 15% of the US fleet was a car with less than 40-foot interior length.

 

I will admit this is very rough math. It is also sketchy by using data from two separate years, but past discussions here have indicated little change in the US freight car fleet during and just after WW2. Kline & Culotta note the same. As best as I can determine from the text, Kline & Culotta did not include the Canadian fleet quantities in their data.

 

As a very general statement, you can estimate 10-15% of the US railroad freight house car fleet was a car with less than 40-foot interior length.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 1:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Prototype info for the new Accurail box car

 


There's a photo of a 36 ft. double sheathed DL&W box car in one of the Tabor books with the steel end Accurail plans to use.

RDG had similar cars with Hutcheons roofs. I don't know for sure but I'll bet many of the cars were originally built with T&G roofs. How about separate roofs Dennis?

You can get an idea of which railroads had 36 ft  box cars from charts in the back of the ORERs at a particular time.. Not many in the 1943 NMRA reprint issue.

Ed Mines