Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"


David Turner
 

I have a list of refrigerator cars iced by the SP&S Railway in Portland' Oregon during October 1945.

Among the usual suspects for car owners , I found several cars with initials "RD".

They are
car numbers, load, destination
23721, empty
35598, turkeys, New York City
5072, meat, Oakland CA
38824, turkeys, Seattle
4413, turkeys, New Orleans
23411, turkeys, Seattle
20510, turkeys, Seattle
25776, turkeys, New York City

I checked a copy of ORER dated January 1942. There is no listing for "RD" in the front, and I don't believe that "RD" is short for RDG since they have no refrs. in any of these series. Also, it is not listed at Nakina.net

Does anyone know what company used the initials "RD"?

Thank you for any assistance.

Best regards,
David Turner
Keeping the S. P. & S. Ry. alive in Santa Rosa, California


al_brown03
 

Is that perhaps a clerk's abbreviation for "SFRD"?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Tony Thompson
 

David Turner wrote:

 

I have a list of refrigerator cars iced by the SP&S Railway in Portland'
Oregon during October 1945.

Among the usual suspects for car owners , I found several cars with
initials "RD".

Does anyone know what company used the initials "RD"?


      A common conductor's abbreviation for SFRD.


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Steve SANDIFER
 

SFRD 4413, turkeys, New Orleans, RR-34
SFRD 5072, meat, Oakland CA, RR-37
SFRD 20510, turkeys, Seattle, RR-29
SFRD 23411, turkeys, Seattle, RR-04

SFRD 23721, empty, RR-05
SFRD 25776, turkeys, New York City, RR-09
SFRD 35598, turkeys, New York City, RR-32
SFRD 38824, turkeys, Seattle, RR-34

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ

Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 12:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

 

 

I have a list of refrigerator cars iced by the SP&S Railway in Portland'
Oregon during October 1945.

Among the usual suspects for car owners , I found several cars with
initials "RD".

They are
car numbers, load, destination
23721, empty
35598, turkeys, New York City
5072, meat, Oakland CA
38824, turkeys, Seattle
4413, turkeys, New Orleans
23411, turkeys, Seattle
20510, turkeys, Seattle
25776, turkeys, New York City

I checked a copy of ORER dated January 1942. There is no listing for
"RD" in the front, and I don't believe that "RD" is short for RDG since
they have no refrs. in any of these series. Also, it is not listed at
Nakina.net

Does anyone know what company used the initials "RD"?

Thank you for any assistance.

Best regards,
David Turner
Keeping the S. P. & S. Ry. alive in Santa Rosa, California


Tom Vanwormer
 

David and Steve,
The use of the "RD" code for the SFRD was very popular since I found it used on the Colorado Midland in 1917 for the SFRD cars during a month long car study at Basalt CO for the month of May.

Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

'Steve Sandifer' steve.sandifer@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

SFRD 4413, turkeys, New Orleans, RR-34
SFRD 5072, meat, Oakland CA, RR-37
SFRD 20510, turkeys, Seattle, RR-29
SFRD 23411, turkeys, Seattle, RR-04

SFRD 23721, empty, RR-05
SFRD 25776, turkeys, New York City, RR-09
SFRD 35598, turkeys, New York City, RR-32
SFRD 38824, turkeys, Seattle, RR-34

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ

Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 12:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

 

 

I have a list of refrigerator cars iced by the SP&S Railway in Portland'
Oregon during October 1945.

Among the usual suspects for car owners , I found several cars with
initials "RD".

They are
car numbers, load, destination
23721, empty
35598, turkeys, New York City
5072, meat, Oakland CA
38824, turkeys, Seattle
4413, turkeys, New Orleans
23411, turkeys, Seattle
20510, turkeys, Seattle
25776, turkeys, New York City

I checked a copy of ORER dated January 1942. There is no listing for
"RD" in the front, and I don't believe that "RD" is short for RDG since
they have no refrs. in any of these series. Also, it is not listed at
Nakina.net

Does anyone know what company used the initials "RD"?

Thank you for any assistance.

Best regards,
David Turner
Keeping the S. P. & S. Ry. alive in Santa Rosa, California


thecitrusbelt@...
 

Several of the retired Santa Fe employees I have interview spoke of SFRD refrigerator cars as “RDs” when discussing the icing, moving, checking, etc. of such cars.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Douglas Harding
 

Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


tyesac@...
 

Could be, since I've also seen Santa Fe cars listed as "AT"   
 
Tom Casey
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2015 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

 
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 


Tom Vanwormer
 

For the historians in the group, the ATSF was long called the "Atchison" in the TOC period and the SFRD was referred to as the "RD". as late as 1917
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

tyesac@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Could be, since I've also seen Santa Fe cars listed as "AT"   
 
Tom Casey
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2015 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

 
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 


charles slater
 

When I was switching them in the early 1970's SFRD cars were still just called RD's, and that is what was used on our switch lists. We also had RC's (SFRC) mechanicals and RB's (SFRB) for insulated boxes.

Charlie Slater

Bakersfield, Ca.




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Tom VanWormer robsmom@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"
 
 

For the historians in the group, the ATSF was long called the "Atchison" in the TOC period and the SFRD was referred to as the "RD". as late as 1917
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

tyesac@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Could be, since I've also seen Santa Fe cars listed as "AT"   
 
Tom Casey
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2015 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

 
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 


pennsylvania1954
 

Turkeys? I think of produce, not turkeys, when discussing ice reefer classes. A couple of these cars are listed in Portland, OR, consigned with turkeys to New York City. Realizing that the loads are iced, not frozen, will these birds still be edible when they get to NYC and are cooked on the fourth Thursday of November? That is a long way.

During the early 50's we had family friends with a turkey farm in Englishtown, NJ, right in the middle of the state. No doubt some of their birds made it to the City fresh.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


np328
 

  Turkeys, yes. 

Without giving too much away from my Cocoa Beach presentation next week, I will copy this word for word from the Feb 20, 1957 No. 134 AAR report.

     Frozen food loadings as reported in the commodity statistics of the ICC included fruits and berries, fresh vegetables, dressed poultry and frozen foods amounted to 25,116 carloads or 778,307 tons for the first three quarters of 1956. ....
    Recent reports by the Regional Shippers Advisory Boards indicated a continual increase in frozen food loadings estimating 7,491 carloads for the first quarter of 1957, an estimated increase of 13.4 percent over the volume handled during the first quarter of 1956.

             End of that.  

     From prior presentations I have given is this from a letter of May 14, 1957: Gone are the days when a processor could ship straight carloads to almost any wholesale grocer. The chain groups in almost every instance ask for assortments and the business goes to those who can offer this. -  from a shippers letter to a station agent.

     Drawing from my research over the years, the old markets and ways of doing things appear to be in flux especially in the last half of the fifties as technology in many forms is reaching into these industries.

Also, the article linked below talks of a Turkey Surplus in 1952, look about half way down.

The Strange History of Frozen Food: From Clarence Birdseye to the Distinguished Order of Zerocrats

                                                                                                 Jim Dick - St. Paul

   

 


 



pennsylvania1954
 

Hi Jim--Thanks for replying. The list of cars reiced in Portland was from Oct 1945, at least 5 years before mechanical reefers began making a significant appearance. Loaded on a Rr-09 and a Rr-32 both with stage icing those turkeys wouldn't be frozen. Again, all the way to New York City? I know what happens to chicken left in my fridge for three days without cooking or freezing, and it isn't good.

Just trying to figure out what these IM and C&BT cars should be  carrying..........

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Bill Decker
 

Turkeys from NW Oregon--absolutely in the time of this list!  Growing up in Corvallis, I well remember the Oregon State University (College then) experimental turkey barns, supporting that state industry.  Similarly, McMinnville, where I now live, has a "Turkeyrama" annual civic event that dates back over fifty years.  Mack was the center of a major turkey raising region then.  So, yes, LOTS of turkeys shipped from areas around Portland, OR--all carried in steam era reefers.

Bill Decker
McMinnville, OR


Tony Thompson
 

Steve Hoxie wrote:

 

Hi Jim--Thanks for replying. The list of cars reiced in Portland was from Oct 1945, at least 5 years before mechanical reefers began making a significant appearance. Loaded on a Rr-09 and a Rr-32 both with stage icing those turkeys wouldn't be frozen. Again, all the way to New York City? I know what happens to chicken left in my fridge for three days without cooking or freezing, and it isn't good.


   Steve, you assume that frozen food could not be shipped in ice reefers, which is not true. Addition of salt could reduce temperatures into the teens (Fahrenheit) and a mechanical reefer was not essential. I'm not saying that the turkey cargoes in question WERE frozen, but only that if they WERE frozen, they could be shipped in an ice car. Indeed frozen food was so shipped since the 1920s. Mechanical reefers were primarily important because they could attain lower temperatures than was possible with ice plus salt, such as zero Fahrenheit, essential for high-sugar things like frozen orange juice, rapidly growing in popularity after WW II.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Douglas Harding
 

Steve, frozen meat was indeed shipped in ice bunker reefers. The right amount of ice and salt could produce temps down into single digits, but more likely the teens or 20’s, sufficient for keeping frozen items frozen. Most “fresh” poultry is or was shipped what is called “chilled”, ideal temp of 32-38. But sometimes the chilling produced partially frozen birds. Many a housewife starting cutting open a chicken to find ice crystals inside.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Charles Peck
 

Steve, Salt is your answer.  Frozen turkeys can be kept frozen with ice and salt.  
Zero degrees is possible with ice and salt but for practical usage, holding around
20 degrees F. would be reasonable shipping of frozen turkeys from anyplace USA
to anyplace USA. 

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:47 AM, stevehprr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi Jim--Thanks for replying. The list of cars reiced in Portland was from Oct 1945, at least 5 years before mechanical reefers began making a significant appearance. Loaded on a Rr-09 and a Rr-32 both with stage icing those turkeys wouldn't be frozen. Again, all the way to New York City? I know what happens to chicken left in my fridge for three days without cooking or freezing, and it isn't good.

Just trying to figure out what these IM and C&BT cars should be  carrying..........

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL



ROGER HINMAN
 

 I have a stack of waybills somewhere I bought on ebay years ago and they’re all from a food chain in Boston for frozen turkeys coming from Spokane in the 50s. Some came in in highly insulated reefers, others came in normal RS cars of the period.


Roger Hinman




On Dec 31, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Steve Hoxie wrote:

 

Hi Jim--Thanks for replying. The list of cars reiced in Portland was from Oct 1945, at least 5 years before mechanical reefers began making a significant appearance. Loaded on a Rr-09 and a Rr-32 both with stage icing those turkeys wouldn't be frozen. Again, all the way to New York City? I know what happens to chicken left in my fridge for three days without cooking or freezing, and it isn't good.


   Steve, you assume that frozen food could not be shipped in ice reefers, which is not true. Addition of salt could reduce temperatures into the teens (Fahrenheit) and a mechanical reefer was not essential. I'm not saying that the turkey cargoes in question WERE frozen, but only that if they WERE frozen, they could be shipped in an ice car. Indeed frozen food was so shipped since the 1920s. Mechanical reefers were primarily important because they could attain lower temperatures than was possible with ice plus salt, such as zero Fahrenheit, essential for high-sugar things like frozen orange juice, rapidly growing in popularity after WW II.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







railsnw@...
 

All,


The list that David Turner is referring to is from SP&S Chief Engineer File SPS 8171 which was the AFE for construction of icing facilities at Portland. The list is from October 15, 1945 to October 29, 1945. The list shows quite a few carloads of turkeys that originated in Portland, Albany, and Eugene, OR. Destination was New York City, Chicago, and Seattle. Besides the SFRD cars these were also loaded in MDT, URT, PFE, WFE, NWX, and NRC cars. Also at this same time was shipments of frozen fruit.


This file and many others are from the SP&S and it's subsidiaries and are in the SP&S Ry. Historical Society Archives.


Rich Wilkens


pennsylvania1954
 

Now I understand. Salt. Thanks, all!

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL