Representing paint failure


Eric Hansmann
 

Techniques to represent paint failure on box car roofs are featured on the Resin Car Works blog. These examples complement the Steam Era Freight Car list discussions from a couple of weeks ago. Visit the RCW blog for more details.

 

http://blog.resincarworks.com/paint-failure/

 

Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy


A&Y Dave in MD
 

Having watched a recent weathering mini clinic on Train Master TV, my theory (not experience) is that the modelers are not satisfied because the peeling paint models lack the feathering transitions and layers of obscuring grime that most prototypes exhibit.

I bet if the undercoat paint had a very dilute addition of the body color or there was another technique to use a series of dilute washes over the paint used to create the bare metal, like Michael Gross only more, they would like the results even more.

Great blog entry because it shows that even accomplished modelers have things to learn!

As I strongly believe, if you aren't making mistakes, you are not learning! I get tired of MR photos because they tend to show the final iteration of the strength of an accomplished modeler. People don't identify with perfection. Blogs and videos have begun to show the experimentation and failures that precede virtually every beautiful model. That flavor of trial and error will inspire more modelers than any museum quality model shown complete. Bob Ross became famous for showing his mistakes and how he recovered to create "happy little accidents."

I'm glad to see entries like this! They show me I have room to contribute something...now to get my weathering gear out and show you what I mean!

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:57 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Techniques to represent paint failure on box car roofs are featured on the Resin Car Works blog. These examples complement the Steam Era Freight Car list discussions from a couple of weeks ago. Visit the RCW blog for more details.

 

http://blog.resincarworks.com/paint-failure/

 

Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

David Bott has brought up something that is important. Perhaps
even -very- important ...

I know several model railroaders who compliment the weathered
freight car models they see - and say stuff like "Gee, I wish -I- could
do that kind of weathering." ... and their trains are unweathered and
have been unweathered for years. And when asked when they are
going to weather their own trains they always answer with "when I
know how to do it".

David is saying "guys are 'intimidated' by the completed/finished
work of others" and I agree! Learning to weather is a 'process'.
We need to encourage others to -start- the process. Some of the
ways we can do that are to sit down with some friends and some
models and some paints and actually -do- some weathering ... and
then to put the brushes into their hands for them to experiment on
their models ===> right then and there.

One of the key elements of weathering is "observing the prototype" -
but it isn't the only one.

Lastly - a constant irritation of mine is guys who learn "just one
way" (or thing to do) and then do that same thing over and over
again ===> with very little variation from car to car (or year to year).
I like to describe 'successful' weathering using the following words:

A layout yard full of cars that "look all the same" ... UNTIL you
study the individual cars in the yard and then you start to
see the differences between the cars. And the more you study
the more differences you see.

One of my "go to"/"go back to" techniques that I have found is
important in that "all the same and all different at the same time"
result is using considerable amounts of weathering by hand. I'm
not saying I don't also use an airbrush ... I'm saying that if you
haven't done some of the weathering using a brush you hold in
your hand that you won't achieve the same results.

Example - look at the Delano picture recently posted - notice how
the "paint failure" is different from car to car! Reflect also on how
quickly you picked up on the big picture "this is a steam era yard".

I've seen layout yards that look like that pic - and it was no
accident! Thanks David for pointing out one of the reasons
why many guys never seem to get started on "weathering".
- Jim B.

6b. Re: Representing paint failure Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@vt.edu lwulffe_doc Date: Mon Jan 4, 2016 5:54 pm ((PST))
Having watched a recent weathering mini clinic on Train Master TV, my theory (not experience) is that the modelers are not
satisfied because the peeling paint models lack the feathering transitions and layers of obscuring grime that most
prototypes exhibit.
I bet if the undercoat paint had a very dilute addition of the body color or there was another technique to use a series of
dilute washes over the paint used to create the bare metal, like Michael Gross only more, they would like the results even
more. Great blog entry because it shows that even accomplished modelers have things to learn!
As I strongly believe, if you aren't making mistakes, you are not learning!
I get tired of MR photos because they tend to show the final iteration of the strength of an accomplished modeler.
People don't identify with perfection. Blogs and videos have begun to show the experimentation and failures that
precede virtually every beautiful model. That flavor of trial and error will inspire more modelers than any museum
quality model shown complete.
Bob Ross became famous for showing his mistakes and how he recovered to create "happy little accidents." I'm
glad to see entries like this! They show me I have room to contribute something...now to get my weathering
gear out and show you what I mean! Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  In case any one is wondering ... this picture was taken at the Milwaukee 
Galewood (Chicago) yard in 1943.  Interesting mix of new an old cars in this
picture - from wood cars with above car top brake wheels and wood roof 
walks to steel cars with steel roof walks.  A few years earlier - or later - and
this mix would not be seen!
  This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano.
                                                                                             - Jim Betz  


Eric Hansmann
 

Oops. I pulled the wrong date off of the LoC page. I'll change the reference year to 1943 as soon as I can. 

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

On Jan 5, 2016, at 11:44 AM, jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi,

  In case any one is wondering ... this picture was taken at the Milwaukee 
Galewood (Chicago) yard in 1943.  Interesting mix of new an old cars in this
picture - from wood cars with above car top brake wheels and wood roof 
walks to steel cars with steel roof walks.  A few years earlier - or later - and
this mix would not be seen!
  This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano.
                                                                                             - Jim Betz  


Benjamin Hom
 


Jim Betz wrote:
"This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano."

It's not a "Shorpy image".  Shorpy doesn't own anything.  The Delano images are part of the Farm Security Administration/Office of War Information Collection of the Library of Congress.

Folks would be better served to go through the LoC collection themselves instead of waiting for Shorpy to spoon feed the images to you.


Ben Hom


armprem
 

Unfortunately some of the efforts to show paint failure that I have seen looked more like Pidgeon poop.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "jimbetz jimbetz@jimbetz.com [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Representing paint failure


Hi,

David Bott has brought up something that is important. Perhaps
even -very- important ...

I know several model railroaders who compliment the weathered
freight car models they see - and say stuff like "Gee, I wish -I- could
do that kind of weathering." ... and their trains are unweathered and
have been unweathered for years. And when asked when they are
going to weather their own trains they always answer with "when I
know how to do it".

David is saying "guys are 'intimidated' by the completed/finished
work of others" and I agree! Learning to weather is a 'process'.
We need to encourage others to -start- the process. Some of the
ways we can do that are to sit down with some friends and some
models and some paints and actually -do- some weathering ... and
then to put the brushes into their hands for them to experiment on
their models ===> right then and there.

One of the key elements of weathering is "observing the prototype" -
but it isn't the only one.

Lastly - a constant irritation of mine is guys who learn "just one
way" (or thing to do) and then do that same thing over and over
again ===> with very little variation from car to car (or year to year).
I like to describe 'successful' weathering using the following words:

A layout yard full of cars that "look all the same" ... UNTIL you
study the individual cars in the yard and then you start to
see the differences between the cars. And the more you study
the more differences you see.

One of my "go to"/"go back to" techniques that I have found is
important in that "all the same and all different at the same time"
result is using considerable amounts of weathering by hand. I'm
not saying I don't also use an airbrush ... I'm saying that if you
haven't done some of the weathering using a brush you hold in
your hand that you won't achieve the same results.

Example - look at the Delano picture recently posted - notice how
the "paint failure" is different from car to car! Reflect also on how
quickly you picked up on the big picture "this is a steam era yard".

I've seen layout yards that look like that pic - and it was no
accident! Thanks David for pointing out one of the reasons
why many guys never seem to get started on "weathering".
- Jim B.

6b. Re: Representing paint failure Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@vt.edu
lwulffe_doc Date: Mon Jan 4, 2016 5:54 pm ((PST))
Having watched a recent weathering mini clinic on Train Master TV, my
theory (not experience) is that the modelers are not
satisfied because the peeling paint models lack the feathering
transitions and layers of obscuring grime that most
prototypes exhibit.
I bet if the undercoat paint had a very dilute addition of the body
color or there was another technique to use a series of
dilute washes over the paint used to create the bare metal, like Michael
Gross only more, they would like the results even
more. Great blog entry because it shows that even accomplished modelers
have things to learn!
As I strongly believe, if you aren't making mistakes, you are not
learning!
I get tired of MR photos because they tend to show the final iteration
of the strength of an accomplished modeler.
People don't identify with perfection. Blogs and videos have begun to
show the experimentation and failures that
precede virtually every beautiful model. That flavor of trial and error
will inspire more modelers than any museum
quality model shown complete.
Bob Ross became famous for showing his mistakes and how he recovered
to create "happy little accidents." I'm
glad to see entries like this! They show me I have room to contribute
something...now to get my weathering
gear out and show you what I mean! Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone


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Yahoo Groups Links





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Eric Hansmann
 

Jim,

Here's the original image file at the Library of Congress site. Download the largest TIF file to review on your computer and zoom in to see many details.

http://loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsac.1a34816/


Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy



On January 5, 2016 at 11:44 AM "jimbetz@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi,

  In case any one is wondering ... this picture was taken at the Milwaukee 
Galewood (Chicago) yard in 1943.  Interesting mix of new an old cars in this
picture - from wood cars with above car top brake wheels and wood roof 
walks to steel cars with steel roof walks.  A few years earlier - or later - and
this mix would not be seen!
  This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano.
                                                                                             - Jim Betz  


Tony Thompson
 

 Jim Betz wrote:

  In case any one is wondering ... this picture was taken at the Milwaukee Galewood (Chicago) yard in 1943.  Interesting mix of new an old cars in this picture - from wood cars with above car top brake wheels and wood roof walks to steel cars with steel roof walks.  A few years earlier - or later - and this mix would not be seen!

  This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano.

   You may have gotten the image from Shorpy, but it is a Library of Congress image, like all the Delano FSA and OWI images. Let's not get confused as to where things are and how to access them, or who owns them.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





George Courtney
 

I noticed on the MKT yellow boxcar 76678 that the roof is a faded gray that appears to my eye to have never been painted.

George Courtney


 

Walter Pidgeon?

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

On 1/5/16, 1:36 PM, "'Armand' armprem@surfglobal.net [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Unfortunately some of the efforts to show paint failure that I have seen
looked more like Pidgeon poop.Armand Premo


Bill Welch
 

Armand, does that mean we should not try?

Personally I don't think so. If we do not try, if we do not take a risk, if we do not share our work, including our mistakes, how will we get better, how will we learn anything? How will we grow?

Personally I really like the trend I am seeing thanks to the Resin Car Works Blog and the Resin Freight Car Yahoo group of people sharing there work, putting themselves out there . . .

Bill Welch


Tom Madden
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

Armand, does that mean we should not try?

"Do. Or do not. There is no try."

Yoda


Tony Thompson
 

Tom Madden wrote:

 

"Do. Or do not. There is no try."

Yoda

       Ah, wisdom at last. Thanks, Tom.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

It's about committement to mastery. You have to want to succeed before starting and persevere until you've mastered the task.

Nelson Moyer


On Jan 5, 2016, at 3:06 PM, "pullmanboss@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Armand, does that mean we should not try?

"Do. Or do not. There is no try."

Yoda


armprem
 

Lighten up, A futile attempt of some humor never hurt anyone..Like weathering,some tend to over-do it.I believe weathering , including paint failure should be subtle.Just my humble opinion.I make it a practice not to be critical of any individual's work...Now if I had said,"It looks like something Mrs Murphy's cat dragged in the back door " I should be justifiably subjected to an individual's ire..Armand Premo Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Representing paint failure

Tom Madden wrote:

 

"Do. Or do not. There is no try."

Yoda

       Ah, wisdom at last. Thanks, Tom.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Curt Fortenberry
 


If all you have is a hammer, then every problem is a nail.  Take on old car and experiment.  The cars that didn't come out like I expected are just consist cars, not contest.  Youtube has lots of good examples, although many are poor quality videos.  Use different types of paints, and when used in the right order you get great results.  Take a look at what the plastic modelers (ie, airplane) are doing. Lots of great ideas out there.

Curt Fortenberry


mwbauers
 

Don’t overlook the technique of ragged edge cloud and mountain spray masks.

Do the like in a smaller version for sections like worn galvanized roofs. You’ll feather the edges of the applied paint with the method.

It might work with a coarse spray generic airbrush or paint-bomb. You’ll certainly have great control and results if you use a fine tip, fine spray airbrush in that step.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Jan 5, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Curt Fortenberry  wrote:


If all you have is a hammer, then every problem is a nail.  Take on old car and experiment.  The cars that didn't come out like I expected are just consist cars, not contest.  Youtube has lots of good examples, although many are poor quality videos.  Use different types of paints, and when used in the right order you get great results.  Take a look at what the plastic modelers (ie, airplane) are doing. Lots of great ideas out there.

Curt Fortenberry


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I still have the very first weathering job I ever did - an Athearn GN caboose.
It was pretty much a "total failure" in terms of being able to actually use it.
I still get "red" when I remember the jeers I got at the layout when I
"proudly showed it off". I especially like to haul it out when I'm helping a
buddy learn how to do weathering (as an example of how not to do it).

At least one of the reasons why it was a failure was because I put it
behind a train of unweathered cars ... but the level of weathering was
"seriously over done" ... *G*.

HOWEVER - the techniques I learned in that weathering session (I was
being taught by someone who was a very skilled military modeler) - are
still with me and very much "in play/in use" to this day.
- Jim