Santa Fe reefers in Boston


 

I have been trying to determine what, if any, Santa Fe refrigerator cars found their way to any of the Terminal Division freight houses or nearby industries / distribution centers. I have checked this group's conversations and files but nothing jumped out at me. I also searched my library of photo books. The only photo that I could find of SFRD cars behind B&M power was on page 165 of Boston and Maine: Three Colorful Decades of New England Railroading. It appears to show two cars behind 1577 in West Groton. I tried the B&M list, but the several responses had very limited information. One reply mentioned Union Freight via New Haven (or B&M) as a possibility. Another post noted that unit trains perhaps went to centrally located class yards outside of Boston. Thank you for any inputs.
Jack Dziadul
Sanford, NC


Benjamin Hom
 

Jack Dziadul asked:
"I have been trying to determine what, if any, Santa Fe refrigerator cars found their way to any of the Terminal Division freight houses or nearby industries / distribution centers. I have checked this group's conversations and files but nothing jumped out at me. I also searched my library of photo books. The only photo that I could find of SFRD cars behind B&M power was on page 165 of Boston and Maine: Three Colorful Decades of New England Railroading. It appears to show two cars behind 1577 in West Groton. I tried the B&M list, but the several responses had very limited information. One reply mentioned Union Freight via New Haven (or B&M) as a possibility. Another post noted that unit trains perhaps went to centrally located class yards outside of Boston. Thank you for any inputs."

Two photos on the Boston & Albany for you to peruse:


SUVCWORR@...
 

The PRR and Erie both handed off cars to the NH for Boston delivery.  Not sure what the NYC did but suspect they would be handled by the B&A absent other routing by the shipper.

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: jackdziadul@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2016 3:03 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe reefers in Boston



I have been trying to determine what, if any, Santa Fe refrigerator cars found their way to any of the Terminal Division freight houses or nearby industries / distribution centers. I have checked this group's conversations and files but nothing jumped out at me. I also searched my library of photo books. The only photo that I could find of SFRD cars behind B&M power was on page 165 of Boston and Maine: Three Colorful Decades of New England Railroading. It appears to show two cars behind 1577 in West Groton. I tried the B&M list, but the several responses had very limited information. One reply mentioned Union Freight via New Haven (or B&M) as a possibility. Another post noted that unit trains perhaps went to centrally located class yards outside of Boston. Thank you for any inputs.
Jack Dziadul
Sanford, NC



 

Ben, thank you. The photos did not show Santa Fe reefers, just boxcars; at least my eyes could not find them.  But, the photo technology was quite impressive. Being able to click on any freight car and get details on that isolated piece of rolling stock is remarkable.

Best regards,

Jack Dziadul

Sanford, NC 



Benjamin Hom
 

Jack Dziadul wrote:
"The photos did not show Santa Fe reefers, just boxcars; at least my eyes could not find them.  But, the photo technology was quite impressive. Being able to click on any freight car and get details on that isolated piece of rolling stock is remarkable."

Go back and look again - there aren't many, but they're there.  There's one obvious SFRD reefer behind the PRR Class X29 boxcar in the top center of this photo:
There's one near the shanty in the upper left of this photo coupled to two single-sheathed boxcars.

Ben Hom


 

Got it. Thank you Ben.

Jack Dziadul

Sanford, NC

Tracks to the Triangle 2016



Bruce Smith
 

Jack,

I understand and always support the search for photographic evidence, and you have gotten some, but something about your question troubles me.  From a practical standpoint, I think it should be obvious that PFE cars made it to Boston.  Why would I say that?  Well, the good folks of the Boston metropolitan area almost certainly wanted the produce that was produced in areas served by the ATSF!  While it may not have been as available (or as fresh) as the same produce arriving in Chicago or St. Louis, it was still in demand there.  Certainly, there are plenty of examples of PFE cars all along the atlantic seaboard, and while New England may represent the farthest reaches of the nation from SFRD territory… but it was certainly served.

Interestingly, at Cocoa Beach, George Eichleberger (sp?) gave a great presentation on banana traffic out of Charleston and there were PFE reefers used for that.  In all fairness though, that was in 1945, at the very end of WWII and PFE did not have control over the use of its cars.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jan 10, 2016, at 2:03 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

I have been trying to determine what, if any, Santa Fe refrigerator cars found their way to any of the Terminal Division freight houses or nearby industries / distribution centers. I have checked this group's conversations and files but nothing jumped out at me. I also searched my library of photo books. The only photo that I could find of SFRD cars behind B&M power was on page 165 of Boston and Maine: Three Colorful Decades of New England Railroading. It appears to show two cars behind 1577 in West Groton. I tried the B&M list, but the several responses had very limited information. One reply mentioned Union Freight via New Haven (or B&M) as a possibility. Another post noted that unit trains perhaps went to centrally located class yards outside of Boston. Thank you for any inputs.
Jack Dziadul
Sanford, NC


Douglas Harding
 

I would echo Bruce’s comments (though he intermingles PFE and SFRD, causing a little confusion). The produce regions served by the ATSF (and PFE) generated produce that was in demand across the country. ATSF maintained a large fleet of reefers marked SFRD for the express purpose of getting that produce to the markets as quickly as possible. Boston was a large enough market to warrant full car loads direct from the growers.

 

Unlike livestock, produce did not require a feed and rest stop. They were merely paused for re-icing. The cars were not stopped and contents transferred to another reefer enroute. The only way this might happen is if a broker purchased multiple car loads, had the loads sent to the broker’s warehouse, where the loads were mixed with other loads and reloaded on cars for distribution. Think a grocery warehouse distribution center, of which there were probably a number in the Boston area. The broker would then send out cars to local areas, ie branch lines throughout New England, but these would not necessarily be SFRD or PFE reefers. More likely a reefer from the region was used for this final distribution. So in Boston you would see SFRD and PFE reefers sitting next to reefers marked MDT, BAR, B&M, WFGE and the like.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


ROGER HINMAN
 

Nice photos but neither looks like B&M terminal division.; the second is definitely Beacon Park yard of the Boston & Albany.

On Jan 10, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Jack Dziadul wrote:
"The photos did not show Santa Fe reefers, just boxcars; at least my eyes could not find them.  But, the photo technology was quite impressive. Being able to click on any freight car and get details on that isolated piece of rolling stock is remarkable."

Go back and look again - there aren't many, but they're there.  There's one obvious SFRD reefer behind the PRR Class X29 boxcar in the top center of this photo:
There's one near the shanty in the upper left of this photo coupled to two single-sheathed boxcars.

Ben Hom



Schuyler Larrabee
 

The original question, Roger, was simply if SFRD reefers ever made it to Boston. The answer is unequivocally yes.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 6:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe reefers in Boston





Nice photos but neither looks like B&M terminal division.; the second is definitely Beacon Park yard of the Boston & Albany.

On Jan 10, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:





Jack Dziadul wrote:

"The photos did not show Santa Fe reefers, just boxcars; at least my eyes could not find them. But, the photo technology was quite impressive. Being able to click on any freight car and get details on that isolated piece of rolling stock is remarkable."



Go back and look again - there aren't many, but they're there. There's one obvious SFRD reefer behind the PRR Class X29 boxcar in the top center of this photo:

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmomar02_2.html



There's one near the shanty in the upper left of this photo coupled to two single-sheathed boxcars.

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/feb02/shotofmofeb02.html





Ben Hom


grangerroads@...
 

Doug,
 
So, while PFE and SFRD were free-roaming throughout the nation, the regional reefers were not part of a national pool? Was there such a pool? Besides the former, were there other reefer consortiums whose cars roamed far and wide?

WFGE? Couldn't find a reference to this mark.

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa


Benjamin Hom
 

Brian Chapman asked:
"So, while PFE and SFRD were free-roaming throughout the nation, the regional reefers were not part of a national pool? Was there such a pool?"

"National pool" is a misnomer as the reefer fleets were privately managed; i.e., a PFE car would not be loaded by a Santa Fe customer.  The one big exception is during WWII, when such restrictions were eliminated and the cars were operated in a national pool.


"Besides the former, were there other reefer consortiums whose cars roamed far and wide?"

The "Our Companies" consortium, which consisted of FGEX, WFEX (NOT "WFGE"), BREX, and NX.  See the link for more information.


Ben Hom


Bruce Smith
 

Brian,

I’ll add more to Ben’s comments on this.  As noted, these cars are NOT in a “national pool” but they do travel nationally, under the control of their respective companies (with the exception of WWII where they were in a true national pool).  This is true for most refrigerator cars of the era.  That is, they were typically loaded on “home" rails, and then could go anywhere in the rail system where that product was desired.  For this reason, reefers from all over the country could be seen in major metropolitan centers such as Boston. Routing and icing were also under control of the owner. Once empty, they were usually routed directly home (usually empty), cleaned and loaded again.  On some occasions, backhauls of clean cargos might be accepted by the company, but these typically did not delay the return of the car to the owner by very much and, of course, in high season would be much less likely as the demand was high for reefers.

Note that I put “home rails” in quotes above, because the vast majority of reefers were owned by companies other than railroads, but the big three were associated with groups of railroads, such as PFE, with UP and SP, SFRD with ATSF and FGE with ACL, FEC, B&O, C&O, PRR, Southern, New Haven, N&W, Norfolk Southern, NYO&W and others… and of course GN through WFE and CB&Q through BRE,

Cars in the FGE, WFE, BRE consortium were often treated as one pool because of the different timing of important harvests in each region.  Thus, for the southern peach crop in the spring, WFE and BRE reefers were sent to the southeast to bolster the FGE fleet.  So when modeling a peach train, it would be appropriate to have all three road names in approximate proportion to the size of their fleet.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jan 12, 2016, at 9:17 AM, STMFC@... wrote:
Doug,
 
So, while PFE and SFRD were free-roaming throughout the nation, the regional reefers were not part of a national pool? Was there such a pool? Besides the former, were there other reefer consortiums whose cars roamed far and wide?

WFGE? Couldn't find a reference to this mark.

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa 



Bill Welch
 

A couple of thoughts

Boston was one of 16 (I think that number is correct) Terminal Markets that served as major hubs for the distribution of fresh produce so of course PFE. SFRD, ART, NWX, MDT, FGE/WFE/BRE System cars would have been seen there to deliver perishables. Other reporting marks that I cannot think of also. The classic LofC photo of the PRR Produce Terminal in Pittsburgh with a sea of produce reefers to be unloaded is indicative of what would would have happened on any given day at all of these Terminal Markets.

During WWII and then into 1948 when the wartime rule finally ended, the cars may have been loaded anywhere because the cars did operate as a huge pool. This brings me to my second point. Even after the rule ended, the FGE/WFE/BRE System was notorious for "capturing" the cars of the other companies and loading them for shipping, much to the frustration of ART. PFE, SFRD, etc., because of the growth of agricultural output in their territories after the war and the condition of their fleet in the midst of the increased demand on their cars.

Bill Welch


ROGER HINMAN
 

Since the original question came up on the B&M list, I take it to be terminal division of the B&M. it’s an interesting query in that light since there are numerous shots  of SFRD cars in both the B&A yards and the NH yards, but few in the B&M yards in Boston.

Roger Hinman



On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:04 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

The original question, Roger, was simply if SFRD reefers ever made it to Boston. The answer is unequivocally yes.

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 6:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe reefers in Boston

Nice photos but neither looks like B&M terminal division.; the second is definitely Beacon Park yard of the Boston & Albany.

On Jan 10, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Jack Dziadul wrote:

"The photos did not show Santa Fe reefers, just boxcars; at least my eyes could not find them. But, the photo technology was quite impressive. Being able to click on any freight car and get details on that isolated piece of rolling stock is remarkable."

Go back and look again - there aren't many, but they're there. There's one obvious SFRD reefer behind the PRR Class X29 boxcar in the top center of this photo:

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmomar02_2.html 

There's one near the shanty in the upper left of this photo coupled to two single-sheathed boxcars.

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/feb02/shotofmofeb02.html 

Ben Hom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 

Ben, that is a great special issue. Thank you for posting that link.

Jack Dziadul

Sanford, NC

www.mer2016.org


Robert kirkham
 

The couple of references to the big exception in WWII have me wondering: what date did that exception come to an end?  In 1945?  I model the summer of 1946, so was it before that, or after? 

 

Rob Kirkham

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 9:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe reefers in Boston

 



Brian,

 

I’ll add more to Ben’s comments on this.  As noted, these cars are NOT in a “national pool” but they do travel nationally, under the control of their respective companies (with the exception of WWII where they were in a true national pool).  This is true for most refrigerator cars of the era.  That is, they were typically loaded on “home" rails, and then could go anywhere in the rail system where that product was desired.  For this reason, reefers from all over the country could be seen in major metropolitan centers such as Boston. Routing and icing were also under control of the owner. Once empty, they were usually routed directly home (usually empty), cleaned and loaded again.  On some occasions, backhauls of clean cargos might be accepted by the company, but these typically did not delay the return of the car to the owner by very much and, of course, in high season would be much less likely as the demand was high for reefers.

 

Note that I put “home rails” in quotes above, because the vast majority of reefers were owned by companies other than railroads, but the big three were associated with groups of railroads, such as PFE, with UP and SP, SFRD with ATSF and FGE with ACL, FEC, B&O, C&O, PRR, Southern, New Haven, N&W, Norfolk Southern, NYO&W and others… and of course GN through WFE and CB&Q through BRE,

 

Cars in the FGE, WFE, BRE consortium were often treated as one pool because of the different timing of important harvests in each region.  Thus, for the southern peach crop in the spring, WFE and BRE reefers were sent to the southeast to bolster the FGE fleet.  So when modeling a peach train, it would be appropriate to have all three road names in approximate proportion to the size of their fleet.

 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 

 

On Jan 12, 2016, at 9:17 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

Doug,
 
So, while PFE and SFRD were free-roaming throughout the nation, the regional reefers were not part of a national pool? Was there such a pool? Besides the former, were there other reefer consortiums whose cars roamed far and wide?

WFGE? Couldn't find a reference to this mark.

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa 

 




 


Bill Welch
 

As I said in my January 12 post, the rule ended in 1948. I don't remember the month.

Bill Welch


Bruce Smith
 

Rob,

Guy Wilbur and Dan Holbrook posted a nice history of this in post 125878 and 125879 , June 29, 2014. 

The relevant ICC Service Orders are 95 and 104.  

Service order 95, issued November 9, 1942 gave the ICC control of refrigerator car movements.  (This effectively established the national pool)

Service order 104, issued January 19, 1943 stated “Railroads transporting west-bound transcontinental shipments, in carloads, destined to points in the States of California, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada and Utah may, at their option, furnish and transport not more than three refrigerator cars of Pacific Fruit Express or Santa Fe Refrigerator Dispatch ownership in lieu of each boxcar ordered subject to the carload minimum weight which would have applied if the shipment had been loaded in a boxcar.

Service order 104 became mandatory September 1, 1943 (note the “may” language in the original order)

Service order 104 was modified August 4, 1945 to require the use of any ownership refrigerator cars for this

Service order 104 expired June 30, 1949.

Service order 104 had the effect of reducing empty car movements, especially westward.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jan 13, 2016, at 11:02 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

The couple of references to the big exception in WWII have me wondering: what date did that exception come to an end?  In 1945?  I model the summer of 1946, so was it before that, or after?  
Rob Kirkham


Robert kirkham
 

Thanks Bill and Bruce; what great news for me. 

 

I still look for photo evidence of representation of the various reefer lines in my area and era.  But awareness that this exception applies to my model era allows me to infer something I might not have: that the absence of representation of some reefer fleets in photos taken before and after the Service Orders were in effect does not speak strongly about what occurred during my model era.  Good to know!

 

Rob   

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:36 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe reefers in Boston

 



Rob,

 

Guy Wilbur and Dan Holbrook posted a nice history of this in post 125878 and 125879 , June 29, 2014. 

 

The relevant ICC Service Orders are 95 and 104.  

 

Service order 95, issued November 9, 1942 gave the ICC control of refrigerator car movements.  (This effectively established the national pool)

 

Service order 104, issued January 19, 1943 stated “Railroads transporting west-bound transcontinental shipments, in carloads, destined to points in the States of California, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada and Utah may, at their option, furnish and transport not more than three refrigerator cars of Pacific Fruit Express or Santa Fe Refrigerator Dispatch ownership in lieu of each boxcar ordered subject to the carload minimum weight which would have applied if the shipment had been loaded in a boxcar.

 

Service order 104 became mandatory September 1, 1943 (note the “may” language in the original order)

 

Service order 104 was modified August 4, 1945 to require the use of any ownership refrigerator cars for this

 

Service order 104 expired June 30, 1949.

 

Service order 104 had the effect of reducing empty car movements, especially westward.

 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 

 

On Jan 13, 2016, at 11:02 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

 

The couple of references to the big exception in WWII have me wondering: what date did that exception come to an end?  In 1945?  I model the summer of 1946, so was it before that, or after?  

Rob Kirkham