NYC USRA DESIGN STEEL BOXCARS


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Ted Culotta's STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS REERENCE MANUAL VOLUME 1 has several good shots of the NYC USTA design steel
boxcars. The cars in several shots have been converted to an AB brake system. In these shots it is clear that the air reservoir is on
the same side of the cara as the brake cylinder. What I cannot determine is the location of the striple valve. Any help would
be greatly app[reciated.

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie


Todd Sullivan
 

Bill,

What era are the photos?

I photographed some NYC 'USRA' survivors in company service in the early 1980s at Selkirk Yard, and built a Westerfield kit using those photos and some builders photos as a guide.  My photos are in storage, but the model is here and has the cylinder on one side with the AB valve near it on the same side, and the reservoir on the opposite side.  I might have gotten it wrong, but I'm pretty careful about that stuff.

Todd Sullivan
Liverpool, NY


Todd Sullivan
 

I should also have asked about the car numbers in the photos.  NYC had many series of these cars, not always the same.

Todd Sullivan
Liverpool, NY


ROGER HINMAN
 

NYC drawing Q53551 is for AB brake system retrofits on many of these cars.  According to that drawing the brake cylinder and the reservoir are on the same side of the car. the valve is on the other side of the car directly opposite the reservoir. This makes for a very clean routing of the pipes.
The drawing is available from the NYCHS.

Roger Hinman

On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:45 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Ted Culotta's STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS REERENCE MANUAL VOLUME 1 has several good shots of the NYC USTA design steel
boxcars. The cars in several shots have been converted to an AB brake system. In these shots it is clear that the air reservoir is on
the same side of the cara as the brake cylinder. What I cannot determine is the location of the striple valve. Any help would
be greatly app[reciated.

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie



Dave Nelson
 

I can endorse Roger’s mention of the NYCHS – I have their cd’s for both boxcars and gondolas.  The drawing sets are not 100% complete… some cars are covered really well, others are a short of describing a whole car.  One example is the purchased brake equipment – you get a G.A. DWG which is very useful, but not any dimensioned drawings of the actual equipment, which leads to my question:

 

Has anyone a dimensioned drawing of a triple valve they can share?  Any era.  All sides.  Even a couple of photos of drawings will help.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 2:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC USRA DESIGN STEEL BOXCARS

 



NYC drawing Q53551 is for AB brake system retrofits on many of these cars.  According to that drawing the brake cylinder and the reservoir are on the same side of the car. the valve is on the other side of the car directly opposite the reservoir. This makes for a very clean routing of the pipes.

The drawing is available from the NYCHS.

 

Roger Hinman

 


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thank you Roger for your reply.  This certsinly answers my question.  I would very much like to obtain a copy of this drawing, however,  I don't seeem to be able to access this information on the website.  Possibly you have to be a member.  I will be happy to putchase this drawing.  Any suggestions on how?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Hinman rhinman11@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 01/27/2016 12:33 (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC USRA DESIGN STEEL BOXCARS

 

NYC drawing Q53551 is for AB brake system retrofits on many of these cars.  According to that drawing the brake cylinder and the reservoir are on the same side of the car. the valve is on the other side of the car directly opposite the reservoir. This makes for a very clean routing of the pipes.

The drawing is available from the NYCHS.

Roger Hinman
On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:45 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Ted Culotta's STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS REERENCE MANUAL VOLUME 1 has several good shots of the NYC USTA design steel
boxcars. The cars in several shots have been converted to an AB brake system. In these shots it is clear that the air reservoir is on
the same side of the cara as the brake cylinder. What I cannot determine is the location of the striple valve. Any help would
be greatly app[reciated.

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie



Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote :


Has anyone a dimensioned drawing of a triple valve they can share?  Any era.  All sides.  Even a couple of photos of drawings will help.

 

Dave Nelson

==================

Very difficult to find, and may be non-existent. Since the brake parts were vendor supplied, the railroad only needed to know the locations of the mounting holes, but not the details of the actual valve housings. That info would have been in the drawing files of WABCO or New York Air Brake Co., but I'm not aware of either drawing archive being available to the public, if they were saved at all.

The old standby is to find a drawing that appears to have been drawn to scale and has one identifiable dimension, such as the distance between the mounting holes, which can be picked up from a "steel details" drawing that dimensions the mounting bracket. Or, measure a valve yourself.

Dennis Storzek


Noel Widdifield
 

The NYCSHS has engineering drawings available in our Society store (Collinwood Shop).  The store is accessible to anyone at:  Welcome to NYCSHS - The Collinwood Shop.
Thanks Noel
Noel Widdifield
NYCSHS Director

 

   


WILLIAM PARDIE
 



Thank you for your response Noel.  When I log into this website I can find a CD of freight car drawings, however, I do 
not find any access to individual drawings.  I really just want to get drawing #Q53551 as referenced by Roger Hinman.
Is it possibe to purchase the individual drawings?

Bill Pardie

On Jan 28, 2016, at 12:58 AM, nycbigfour@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

The NYCSHS has engineering drawings available in our Society store (Collinwood Shop).  The store is accessible to anyone at:  Welcome to NYCSHS - The Collinwood Shop.
Thanks Noel
Noel Widdifield
NYCSHS Director

 



Dave Nelson
 

Thanks Dennis, I was afraid that was the case. I do know where I can find the equipment to measure… I’m most certainly not looking forward to laying down under a car to do it tho. Perhaps I need to get a bit more desperate.



Dave Nelson



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 8:35 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC USRA DESIGN STEEL BOXCARS



---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote :

Has anyone a dimensioned drawing of a triple valve they can share? Any era. All sides. Even a couple of photos of drawings will help.

Dave Nelson

==================

Very difficult to find, and may be non-existent. Since the brake parts were vendor supplied, the railroad only needed to know the locations of the mounting holes, but not the details of the actual valve housings. That info would have been in the drawing files of WABCO or New York Air Brake Co., but I'm not aware of either drawing archive being available to the public, if they were saved at all.

The old standby is to find a drawing that appears to have been drawn to scale and has one identifiable dimension, such as the distance between the mounting holes, which can be picked up from a "steel details" drawing that dimensions the mounting bracket. Or, measure a valve yourself.

Dennis Storzek










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ROGER HINMAN
 

Bill, when you go on the NYCHS website push the red button to contract Tom Gebracht and see if he can help you

For Dave Nelson, Dennis’ response about vendor parts is dead on. The resource you can try and hunt for are either NYAB or WABCO’s part catalogs. I know the IRM library has some of these and the Newberry library has some in their Pullman collection. These do not have a dimensioned drawing but they have drawings and photos.  They do not have shots of all six sides either. Another source is in the trade magazines like Railway Age. For AB brakes, these were heavily advertised in the thirties and advertisements sometimes have wonderful photos.
Another source is brake manuals published by individual railroads for their employees sometimes have pictures of the equipment.

Roger Hinman


On Jan 28, 2016, at 1:34 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Thank you for your response Noel.  When I log into this website I can find a CD of freight car drawings, however, I do 
not find any access to individual drawings.  I really just want to get drawing #Q53551 as referenced by Roger Hinman.
Is it possibe to purchase the individual drawings?

Bill Pardie

On Jan 28, 2016, at 12:58 AM, nycbigfour@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

The NYCSHS has engineering drawings available in our Society store (Collinwood Shop).  The store is accessible to anyone at:  Welcome to NYCSHS - The Collinwood Shop.
Thanks Noel
Noel Widdifield
NYCSHS Director

 





Dennis Storzek
 

I seem to recall thet the WABCO catalogs had dimensions of the brake cylinders... but one general illustration covered all of one type, with a table of dimensions. In fact, the illustrations published in the older Car Builder's Cyc's are the same letter keys for the dimensions, but omit the tables. The triple valves, however, have few if any dimensions.

Obviously both Wabco and New York had drawings of the parts for their internal use in manufacturing, but I've never found a source.

Dennis Storzek


brianleppert@att.net
 


Has anyone a dimensioned drawing of a triple valve they can share?  Any era.  All sides.  Even a couple of photos of drawings will help.

 

Dave Nelson


Dave, are you looking for drawings of triple valves or AB valves?  Many model railroaders erroneously say "triple valve" (only used with K brakes, I believe) when they're actually talking about an "AB" valve.


Brian Leppert

Carson City, NV

 


 


Noel Widdifield
 

Bill,
 We don't sell the as individual drawings.  Too much trouble for not enough money.  I did send you the drawing to your email address, however.
 The NYCSHS is here to help any way we can.
Thanks, Noel


Dave Nelson
 

AB Valves. Just the dimensions that make up the boxy shapes would probably do as I’m pretty sure I’m just going to plumb the pipes right thru the sides w/o worrying about the various fitting faces.



I’m mid-way thru doing a CAD model of a triple valve for a KC brake and I gotta say I wish I hadn’t started.



I think Dennis is right… I gotta go crawl under some old cars.



Dave Nelson



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 6:17 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC USRA DESIGN STEEL BOXCARS








Has anyone a dimensioned drawing of a triple valve they can share? Any era. All sides. Even a couple of photos of drawings will help.



Dave Nelson



Dave, are you looking for drawings of triple valves or AB valves? Many model railroaders erroneously say "triple valve" (only used with K brakes, I believe) when they're actually talking about an "AB" valve.



Brian Leppert

Carson City, NV


mark_landgraf
 

I would recommend that you visit wabtec.com 
Then go to documents
Then search on freight car products
There were a couple of AB valve service and shop manuals that I found within a couple of minutes
No dimensions but lots of photos and drawings

You'll want just AB valves, not all of its newer variants like ABDW

Good luck
Mark

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
From: brianleppert@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 9:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC USRA DESIGN STEEL BOXCARS

 


Has anyone a dimensioned drawing of a triple valve they can share?  Any era.  All sides.  Even a couple of photos of drawings will help.

 

Dave Nelson


Dave, are you looking for drawings of triple valves or AB valves?  Many model railroaders erroneously say "triple valve" (only used with K brakes, I believe) when they're actually talking about an "AB" valve.


Brian Leppert

Carson City, NV

 


 



Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <mark_landgraf@...> wrote :

I would recommend that you visit wabtec.com 
Then go to documents
Then search on freight car products
There were a couple of AB valve service and shop manuals that I found within a couple of minutes
No dimensions but lots of photos and drawings

==================

And once you have those drawings, THIS DRAWING:

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=101384

Will give you the mounting bolt locations, which you can use to determine the scale of those non-dimensioned drawings.

Dennis Storzek




 



Dave Nelson
 

Yes, indeed they were.  Thank you for uploading them.

 

Dave Nelson

 

p.s. for some strange reason your e-mail was tagged as junk mail and shuffled out of sight.  There’s nothing in the text that’s gives a reason for that.  Very strange….

 

From: brianleppert@... [STMFC] [mailto:STMFC-noreply@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 9:57 AM
To: Lake_Muskoka@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NYC USRA DESIGN STEEL BOXCARS

 

Dave,  I downloaded a Westinghouse AB parts catalog into the files section.  There were overall dimensions for the AB valve on page two.  Were these helpful?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


brianleppert@att.net
 

Dave, I also have copies of similar Westinghouse part catalogs for their Type K-1 and K-2 Triple Valves and the related freight brake cylinders and reservoirs.  Would these help if I added them to our Files section?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Misc Clark
 

Not Dave, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night... pleez post the K parts...thx
Clark Cone

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 1:36 PM, brianleppert@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Dave, I also have copies of similar Westinghouse part catalogs for their Type K-1 and K-2 Triple Valves and the related freight brake cylinders and reservoirs.  Would these help if I added them to our Files section?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV