Covered Hoppers - for Cement


Jim Betz
 

Hello my knowledgeable friends,

My knowledge is less than complete about the topic "covered hoppers
in cement service. It seems like every time I learn one part of this
type of service - it only brings up new questions ...

I know that the GN first started experimenting with 70t covered
hoppers for this service very soon after WWII ('46) and then did
fairly large orders of them in '48 and '49.
I also understand that cement service was more of a"regional
thing" than a trans con service - because there were/are cement
plants in almost every region of the country - and cement is a
fairly heavy commodity. And it is often used for big projects such
as the building of a dam, expansion of the interstates, etc. The
results of these facts were that, for the most part, cement
hoppers tended to be in 'captive service' and it was fairly rare
for them to be interchanged to more than one 'other road'.
Most cement hoppers seem to have a 'range' of "about 200 miles
or so" - which probably directly relates to how far it is between
the various cement producing plants.
The end result was that you see/would see "cuts of cars" that
were usually from one parent road. Such as a cut of GN cars
going to/from a particular cement plant ... and also to/from
a particular consignee.
I've studied as many pics as I can and have the following
questions:

1) What was the 'source' (reason) for seeing a few cars
from other roads in the same cuts of cars? Were
these cars likely to be on a 'permanent short/long
term loan' kind of deal where they stayed in the
same service for a few trips (or many)?

2) I have often seen something like an SSW cement hopper
in a cut of mostly SP cars. I'm guessing that SP was
'maximizing the use of their fleet of hoppers' when
that happened. Correct?

3) Were there definite changes in the cement usage that
occurred - during the STMFC era (i.e. this list) - that explain
some of the 'anomalies' I've seen?

4) Were the hoppers ever used to transport other commodities
- such as sand - TO the cement plants or did they go to the
plants empty and leave the plants loaded.

5) How long after the introduction of cement hoppers was it
before they took over - carrying by far the majority of the
bulk cement hauls? I'm guessing that it was at most a
decade because it has to be a superior (less costly) way
to transport bulk cement.

6) Does any one know what the percentage of bagged cement
in box cars was "by the end of the STMFC era"?

If most/all of this is answered by looking stuff up on the web -
PLEASE point me to the site(s). What I have found are sites
that are focused on the -current- cement industry - and a few
web sites that cover "what happened for the building of the
Grand Coulee Dam" and other such major projects ... but only
for individual projects.
What I did not find is a site that covers "the history of the
cement industry" ... and especially that part of it that involves
the use of covered hoppers.
- Jim B.

P.S. I find it interesting that covered hoppers for cement service
(and a few other special commodities) rolled out so -long-
before the grain industry tumbled to using similarly
designed cars. Go figure ...


Brad Smith
 

Bagged cement was sold at lumber yards for contractors and home improvers.  Like making a side walk or driveway.  Was still sold at the end of the STMF period.
 
In Rhode Island, where I grew up, I saw a lot of LNE cement hoppers, but there were several cement mines on the LNE.  Much cement for the US came from Michigan.  Probably more can be found on the location of cement mines on the Web.
 
The cement hoppers were for large concrete providers.  You know, the guys that use the transit mixers.  In my town, the concrete company was located nowhere near the railroad.  So on the team track, at the freight house, was a special unloading pit and vertical conveyor to load the cement powder into trucks that would take it to the concrete plant, where it was stored.  I have a background shot of this tower somewhere.  The pit under the track would be covered when not unloading cement.
 
Brad Smith


Edward
 

The movement of bulk cement by rail grew out of highway and other construction work being done in the 1930s. The first cars for this material, which had to be kept dry in transit, were usually open top hoppers fitted with roofs, hatches and specially designed hopper outlets.

B&O converted 25  Class N-13 open hoppers this way in 1932, creating the N-25 class of 50 ton steel cement hopper cars. Further refinements were made in 1933 with one-off N-25 a and N-25b cars, addressing issues related to slope sheet and hopper discharge designs.

Meanwhile, more bulk cement hauling cars were needed. So B&O converted 58 M-24 single sheathed  USRA boxcars into cement hopper/boxcars in 1933. These cars had steel, dual hoppers built inside, with roof hatches and outlet hoppers for each. The lading did not cover the door area. 

They were Class M-24a and M-24b. A model of such a car is in the Photos section, O Scale Freight Cars album. In the 1930s, B&O was involved in a number of system wide grade crossing elimination projects, with overpasses, retaining wall and elevated railroad viaducts, some extending well over a mile in length.

B&O's next effort was a one-off N-31 class 50 ton "Wagon top" cement car in 1935. It was a prototype of sorts for 1940 class N-34 70 ton "Wagon top" covered hoppers for cement service, of which only 200 were built. 
Many of these unique cars were in service to the glass industry and rarely if ever got off B&O rails.  Several were also employed hauling dry materials for the oil drilling industry and could be found at times in Louisiana and Texas.  Others of course carried bulk cement. It was important that cars assigned to a specific industry were kept in that service, to avoid possible contamination of the lading.

In 1941, B&O got 150 70 ton cement cars built by the Greenville Steel Car Co, and in 1946 350 more from American Car & Foundry. More such cars would follow in the WW II years from various  builders, including  Pullman's PS-2  in the mid 1950s.

By this time the 'cement car' designation was dropped in favor of 'covered' hopper, hauling dry bulk materials for many other industries.

Ed Bommer  





B&O fielded a small fleet of cement hoppers rebuilt from class M-24 boxcars in the mid-1930s.
Most worked out of Pittsburgh, carrying cement to various large scale construction projects.

Some B&O projects using these cars were concerned with grade crossing elimination work, having bridges, viaducts and retaining walls built in re-enforced concrete.

Such projects were funded with B&O, state and federal funds and provided work during the Great Depression.
A model of a B&O M-24a cement hopper/boxcar, built from an O scale Chooch USRA double sheathed box car kit, is shown in the Photos Section's O Scale Freight Cars album. They were in service into the post WW II years.

Much better known, but far scarcer are the 70 ton B&O 'wagon top' covered hoppers of the N-34 class, also intended for cement service. Only 200 were built in 1940. Most were in dedicated service for the glass industry and rarely got off B&O lines. Several were in assigned service hauling dry materials for the oil drilling industry and could sometimes be found off-line in Louisiana and Texas. B&O built one 50 ton wagon top covered hopper in 1935, class N-31. It was a prototype of sorts for the later N-34 class.

 


Clark Propst
 

Watched some older movies taken of the MN&S yesterday at the ‘retreat’. One train switching a concrete block plant had 2 RI and 1 Missabe CH. The RI probably came from Mason City Iowa and the Missabe from Duluth about equal distances N-S from the Twin Cities.
 
Believe it or not cement required clean cars. So CHs would arrive empty and leave loaded. Not to say cars couldn’t change assignments after thorough cleaning inside.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Charles Hladik
 

Jim,
 
    First off CEMENT is a product used to make CONCRETE. I think if you tried to build a dam with cement you would have a major problem.
 
    My recollection is that the cement was shipped to the cement/concrete plant and then reloaded with dry cement.
 
    If you want to weather the covered hopper get yourself some real CEMENT and weather away.
 
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 2/28/2016 2:33:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

Hello my knowledgeable friends,

My knowledge is less than complete about the topic "covered hoppers
in cement service. It seems like every time I learn one part of this
type of service - it only brings up new questions ...

I know that the GN first started experimenting with 70t covered
hoppers for this service very soon after WWII ('46) and then did
fairly large orders of them in '48 and '49.
I also understand that cement service was more of a"regional
thing" than a trans con service - because there were/are cement
plants in almost every region of the country - and cement is a
fairly heavy commodity. And it is often used for big projects such
as the building of a dam, expansion of the interstates, etc. The
results of these facts were that, for the most part, cement
hoppers tended to be in 'captive service' and it was fairly rare
for them to be interchanged to more than one 'other road'.
Most cement hoppers seem to have a 'range' of "about 200 miles
or so" - which probably directly relates to how far it is between
the various cement producing plants.
The end result was that you see/would see "cuts of cars" that
were usually from one parent road. Such as a cut of GN cars
going to/from a particular cement plant ... and also to/from
a particular consignee.
I've studied as many pics as I can and have the following
questions:

1) What was the 'source' (reason) for seeing a few cars
from other roads in the same cuts of cars? Were
these cars likely to be on a 'permanent short/long
term loan' kind of deal where they stayed in the
same service for a few trips (or many)?

2) I have often seen something like an SSW cement hopper
in a cut of mostly SP cars. I'm guessing that SP was
'maximizing the use of their fleet of hoppers' when
that happened. Correct?

3) Were there definite changes in the cement usage that
occurred - during the STMFC era (i.e. this list) - that explain
some of the 'anomalies' I've seen?

4) Were the hoppers ever used to transport other commodities
- such as sand - TO the cement plants or did they go to the
plants empty and leave the plants loaded.

5) How long after the introduction of cement hoppers was it
before they took over - carrying by far the majority of the
bulk cement hauls? I'm guessing that it was at most a
decade because it has to be a superior (less costly) way
to transport bulk cement.

6) Does any one know what the percentage of bagged cement
in box cars was "by the end of the STMFC era"?

If most/all of this is answered by looking stuff up on the web -
PLEASE point me to the site(s). What I have found are sites
that are focused on the -current- cement industry - and a few
web sites that cover "what happened for the building of the
Grand Coulee Dam" and other such major projects ... but only
for individual projects.
What I did not find is a site that covers "the history of the
cement industry" ... and especially that part of it that involves
the use of covered hoppers.
- Jim B.

P.S. I find it interesting that covered hoppers for cement service
(and a few other special commodities) rolled out so -long-
before the grain industry tumbled to using similarly
designed cars. Go figure ...


John Barry
 

Santa Fe converted a number of single sheathed Bx-11/12 box cars by 1943 with roof hatches to load bulk cement. These cars did not get their roofs raised and remained in cement service at least into the fifties. LOC has a Jack Delano photo of a string of these at Victorville and several other photos are available on line. Unlike the B & O box conversions, they did not seem to have hopper doors added and maintained their original car numbers, class and AAR designations.

John Barry

707-490-9696
NorthBayLines@...


From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] ;
To: ;
Subject: [STMFC] Covered Hoppers - for Cement
Sent: Sun, Feb 28, 2016 7:33:20 PM

 

Hello my knowledgeable friends,

My knowledge is less than complete about the topic "covered hoppers
in cement service. It seems like every time I learn one part of this
type of service - it only brings up new questions ...

I know that the GN first started experimenting with 70t covered
hoppers for this service very soon after WWII ('46) and then did
fairly large orders of them in '48 and '49.
I also understand that cement service was more of a"regional
thing" than a trans con service - because there were/are cement
plants in almost every region of the country - and cement is a
fairly heavy commodity. And it is often used for big projects such
as the building of a dam, expansion of the interstates, etc. The
results of these facts were that, for the most part, cement
hoppers tended to be in 'captive service' and it was fairly rare
for them to be interchanged to more than one 'other road'.
Most cement hoppers seem to have a 'range' of "about 200 miles
or so" - which probably directly relates to how far it is between
the various cement producing plants.
The end result was that you see/would see "cuts of cars" that
were usually from one parent road. Such as a cut of GN cars
going to/from a particular cement plant ... and also to/from
a particular consignee.
I've studied as many pics as I can and have the following
questions:

1) What was the 'source' (reason) for seeing a few cars
from other roads in the same cuts of cars? Were
these cars likely to be on a 'permanent short/long
term loan' kind of deal where they stayed in the
same service for a few trips (or many)?

2) I have often seen something like an SSW cement hopper
in a cut of mostly SP cars. I'm guessing that SP was
'maximizing the use of their fleet of hoppers' when
that happened. Correct?

3) Were there definite changes in the cement usage that
occurred - during the STMFC era (i.e. this list) - that explain
some of the 'anomalies' I've seen?

4) Were the hoppers ever used to transport other commodities
- such as sand - TO the cement plants or did they go to the
plants empty and leave the plants loaded.

5) How long after the introduction of cement hoppers was it
before they took over - carrying by far the majority of the
bulk cement hauls? I'm guessing that it was at most a
decade because it has to be a superior (less costly) way
to transport bulk cement.

6) Does any one know what the percentage of bagged cement
in box cars was "by the end of the STMFC era"?

If most/all of this is answered by looking stuff up on the web -
PLEASE point me to the site(s). What I have found are sites
that are focused on the -current- cement industry - and a few
web sites that cover "what happened for the building of the
Grand Coulee Dam" and other such major projects ... but only
for individual projects.
What I did not find is a site that covers "the history of the
cement industry" ... and especially that part of it that involves
the use of covered hoppers.
- Jim B.

P.S. I find it interesting that covered hoppers for cement service
(and a few other special commodities) rolled out so -long-
before the grain industry tumbled to using similarly
designed cars. Go figure ...


John Evans
 

LNE was a pioneer in use of covered hoppers for bulk cement and was using them well before WW2. I believe first order front ACF came in 1938.

John Evans 


On Feb 28, 2016, at 6:14 PM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Santa Fe converted a number of single sheathed Bx-11/12 box cars by 1943 with roof hatches to load bulk cement. These cars did not get their roofs raised and remained in cement service at least into the fifties. LOC has a Jack Delano photo of a string of these at Victorville and several other photos are available on line. Unlike the B O box conversions, they did not seem to have hopper doors added and maintained their original car numbers, class and AAR designations.

John Barry

707-490-9696
NorthBayLines@...


From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>;
To: <STMFC@...>;
Subject: [STMFC] Covered Hoppers - for Cement
Sent: Sun, Feb 28, 2016 7:33:20 PM

 

Hello my knowledgeable friends,

My knowledge is less than complete about the topic "covered hoppers
in cement service. It seems like every time I learn one part of this
type of service - it only brings up new questions ...

I know that the GN first started experimenting with 70t covered
hoppers for this service very soon after WWII ('46) and then did
fairly large orders of them in '48 and '49.
I also understand that cement service was more of a"regional
thing" than a trans con service - because there were/are cement
plants in almost every region of the country - and cement is a
fairly heavy commodity. And it is often used for big projects such
as the building of a dam, expansion of the interstates, etc. The
results of these facts were that, for the most part, cement
hoppers tended to be in 'captive service' and it was fairly rare
for them to be interchanged to more than one 'other road'.
Most cement hoppers seem to have a 'range' of "about 200 miles
or so" - which probably directly relates to how far it is between
the various cement producing plants.
The end result was that you see/would see "cuts of cars" that
were usually from one parent road. Such as a cut of GN cars
going to/from a particular cement plant ... and also to/from
a particular consignee.
I've studied as many pics as I can and have the following
questions:

1) What was the 'source' (reason) for seeing a few cars
from other roads in the same cuts of cars? Were
these cars likely to be on a 'permanent short/long
term loan' kind of deal where they stayed in the
same service for a few trips (or many)?

2) I have often seen something like an SSW cement hopper
in a cut of mostly SP cars. I'm guessing that SP was
'maximizing the use of their fleet of hoppers' when
that happened. Correct?

3) Were there definite changes in the cement usage that
occurred - during the STMFC era (i.e. this list) - that explain
some of the 'anomalies' I've seen?

4) Were the hoppers ever used to transport other commodities
- such as sand - TO the cement plants or did they go to the
plants empty and leave the plants loaded.

5) How long after the introduction of cement hoppers was it
before they took over - carrying by far the majority of the
bulk cement hauls? I'm guessing that it was at most a
decade because it has to be a superior (less costly) way
to transport bulk cement.

6) Does any one know what the percentage of bagged cement
in box cars was "by the end of the STMFC era"?

If most/all of this is answered by looking stuff up on the web -
PLEASE point me to the site(s). What I have found are sites
that are focused on the -current- cement industry - and a few
web sites that cover "what happened for the building of the
Grand Coulee Dam" and other such major projects ... but only
for individual projects.
What I did not find is a site that covers "the history of the
cement industry" ... and especially that part of it that involves
the use of covered hoppers.
- Jim B.

P.S. I find it interesting that covered hoppers for cement service
(and a few other special commodities) rolled out so -long-
before the grain industry tumbled to using similarly
designed cars. Go figure ...


Paul Koehler
 

Chuck:

 

Just point of clarification cement is used in both concrete and mortar.  Concrete contains cement, sand and gravel and is used as you say to build Dams and Roads.  Mortar contains cement and sand and is used to lay bricks or blocks.  Cement is the binding agent, just a very simple explanation.

 

Paul C. Koehler

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Covered Hoppers - for Cement

 

 

Jim,

 

    First off CEMENT is a product used to make CONCRETE. I think if you tried to build a dam with cement you would have a major problem.

 

    My recollection is that the cement was shipped to the cement/concrete plant and then reloaded with dry cement.

 

    If you want to weather the covered hopper get yourself some real CEMENT and weather away.

 

Chuck Hladik

 

In a message dated 2/28/2016 2:33:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

Hello my knowledgeable friends,

My knowledge is less than complete about the topic "covered hoppers
in cement service. It seems like every time I learn one part of this
type of service - it only brings up new questions ...

I know that the GN first started experimenting with 70t covered
hoppers for this service very soon after WWII ('46) and then did
fairly large orders of them in '48 and '49.
I also understand that cement service was more of a"regional
thing" than a trans con service - because there were/are cement
plants in almost every region of the country - and cement is a
fairly heavy commodity. And it is often used for big projects such
as the building of a dam, expansion of the interstates, etc. The
results of these facts were that, for the most part, cement
hoppers tended to be in 'captive service' and it was fairly rare
for them to be interchanged to more than one 'other road'.
Most cement hoppers seem to have a 'range' of "about 200 miles
or so" - which probably directly relates to how far it is between
the various cement producing plants.
The end result was that you see/would see "cuts of cars" that
were usually from one parent road. Such as a cut of GN cars
going to/from a particular cement plant ... and also to/from
a particular consignee.
I've studied as many pics as I can and have the following
questions:

1) What was the 'source' (reason) for seeing a few cars
from other roads in the same cuts of cars? Were
these cars likely to be on a 'permanent short/long
term loan' kind of deal where they stayed in the
same service for a few trips (or many)?

2) I have often seen something like an SSW cement hopper
in a cut of mostly SP cars. I'm guessing that SP was
'maximizing the use of their fleet of hoppers' when
that happened. Correct?

3) Were there definite changes in the cement usage that
occurred - during the STMFC era (i.e. this list) - that explain
some of the 'anomalies' I've seen?

4) Were the hoppers ever used to transport other commodities
- such as sand - TO the cement plants or did they go to the
plants empty and leave the plants loaded.

5) How long after the introduction of cement hoppers was it
before they took over - carrying by far the majority of the
bulk cement hauls? I'm guessing that it was at most a
decade because it has to be a superior (less costly) way
to transport bulk cement.

6) Does any one know what the percentage of bagged cement
in box cars was "by the end of the STMFC era"?

If most/all of this is answered by looking stuff up on the web -
PLEASE point me to the site(s). What I have found are sites
that are focused on the -current- cement industry - and a few
web sites that cover "what happened for the building of the
Grand Coulee Dam" and other such major projects ... but only
for individual projects.
What I did not find is a site that covers "the history of the
cement industry" ... and especially that part of it that involves
the use of covered hoppers.
- Jim B.

P.S. I find it interesting that covered hoppers for cement service
(and a few other special commodities) rolled out so -long-
before the grain industry tumbled to using similarly
designed cars. Go figure ...


Doug Pillow
 

These were probably loaded cars supplying the cement necessary for the production of concrete blocks. The different roads of the cars could be explained by the block company shopping for best price, cement coming from different sources.

                                                                                                                                Doug Pillow


drgwrail
 

I have been researching the origination of cement cars for some years. It seems that they originated on the railroads serving the cement companies in the cement region of Pennsylvania near Nazareth. during the mid 1930s, 

A search through the ORERS from around 1935 shows the L&NE, DL&W, D&H, LV, RDG, CNJ, and PRR with hundreds of covered covered hoppers for cement service, all made by converting excess twin coal hoppers..These all appeared within a short period.For instance the DL&W soon had rebuilt  nearly 400 excess USRA two bay hopper cars to cement cars. The DL&W also used some of the cars to ship soda ash from Solvay NY. Plans for one of the DL&W   converted cars were published in a Railroad Gazette article in  tnat period.

My theory is that the cement companies, the cement region railroads, major cement users, and the Portland Cement. Association  got together and agreed to ship bulk in top loading bottom discharge cars. This had to be an industry agrrement since not all users could accept bottom discharge cars, etc.  

I have been working with the Librarian of the Portland Cement Association but as yet we have not come up with records of any such agreement.

Chuck Yungkurth
Louisville CO

On Monday, February 29, 2016 8:45 AM, "Doug Pillow jssp46@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
These were probably loaded cars supplying the cement necessary for the production of concrete blocks. The different roads of the cars could be explained by the block company shopping for best price, cement coming from different sources.

                                                                                                                                Doug Pillow



water.kresse@...
 

C&O started earlier than that with their conversions adding roofs and modifying the bottom doors . . . then slope angles, etc.
 
Al Kresse


From: "Charles R Yungkurth drgwrail@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 4:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Covered Hoppers - for Cement

 

I have been researching the origination of cement cars for some years. It seems that they originated on the railroads serving the cement companies in the cement region of Pennsylvania near Nazareth. during the mid 1930s, 

A search through the ORERS from around 1935 shows the L&NE, DL&W, D&H, LV, RDG, CNJ, and PRR with hundreds of covered covered hoppers for cement service, all made by converting excess twin coal hoppers..These all appeared within a short period.For instance the DL&W soon had rebuilt  nearly 400 excess USRA two bay hopper cars to cement cars. The DL&W also used some of the cars to ship soda ash from Solvay NY. Plans for one of the DL&W   converted cars were published in a Railroad Gazette article in  tnat period.

My theory is that the cement companies, the cement region railroads, major cement users, and the Portland Cement. Association  got together and agreed to ship bulk in top loading bottom discharge cars. This had to be an industry agrrement since not all users could accept bottom discharge cars, etc.  

I have been working with the Librarian of the Portland Cement Association but as yet we have not come up with records of any such agreement.

Chuck Yungkurth
Louisville CO
On Monday, February 29, 2016 8:45 AM, "Doug Pillow jssp46@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
These were probably loaded cars supplying the cement necessary for the production of concrete blocks. The different roads of the cars could be explained by the block company shopping for best price, cement coming from different sources.

                                                                                                                                Doug Pillow




William Dale
 

The Reading started converting their class HTj USRA twin hoppers to cement service with the #79000 class HTjr in December 1931.  This class was later changed to LOa, and these cars lasted in to the diesel era for sand service. 

William Dale


Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Jim,

 

                Freight conductor Dooley worked for the Union Pacific in eastern Kansas.  He worked the Local daily except Sunday – eastward one day, westward the next.  So the data below is actually HALF of the data in each direction (there was another local in the opposite direction, but I don’t have that conductor’s books).

 

Between 3/16/1955 and 5/16/1955, Dooley’s WESTWARD train picked up 53 cars of cement from the big Lone Star plant at Sunflower (Bonner Springs), KS.  The pickups ranged from 2 cars – 6 cars per day.

Of those 53 cars, 30 were box cars (probably cement in barrels), 20 were in LO’s (one B&O, one HWCX, and the rest UP), and 3 were Gons (CBQ 15366, TNO 61598, and NKP 5371).

The cars were billed to a variety of nearby destinations (Hays, Junction City, Manhattan (KS), Salina, Wakeeney, etc.)

 

There was also one car of cement received by the UP at Kansas City, and delivered to Lawrence.  It was in WAB 84771, a boxcar.

 

 

EASTWARD:

Between 3/11/1955 and 5/14/1955 (not all days included) there were 26 cars of cement picked up from the same plant at Sunflower, at a rate of 1 – 4 cars per day.  Of those, 23 were UP LO’s, and 3 were boxcars (DL&W, NH, and CB&Q).  24 of the 26 were destined for interchange at Kansas City.

 

 

 

I’ll send another message about the cars delivered to the cement plant.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:33 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Covered Hoppers - for Cement

 

 

Hello my knowledgeable friends,

My knowledge is less than complete about the topic "covered hoppers
in cement service. It seems like every time I learn one part of this
type of service - it only brings up new questions ...

I know that the GN first started experimenting with 70t covered
hoppers for this service very soon after WWII ('46) and then did
fairly large orders of them in '48 and '49.
I also understand that cement service was more of a"regional
thing" than a trans con service - because there were/are cement
plants in almost every region of the country - and cement is a
fairly heavy commodity. And it is often used for big projects such
as the building of a dam, expansion of the interstates, etc. The
results of these facts were that, for the most part, cement
hoppers tended to be in 'captive service' and it was fairly rare
for them to be interchanged to more than one 'other road'.
Most cement hoppers seem to have a 'range' of "about 200 miles
or so" - which probably directly relates to how far it is between
the various cement producing plants.
The end result was that you see/would see "cuts of cars" that
were usually from one parent road. Such as a cut of GN cars
going to/from a particular cement plant ... and also to/from
a particular consignee.
I've studied as many pics as I can and have the following
questions:

1) What was the 'source' (reason) for seeing a few cars
from other roads in the same cuts of cars? Were
these cars likely to be on a 'permanent short/long
term loan' kind of deal where they stayed in the
same service for a few trips (or many)?

2) I have often seen something like an SSW cement hopper
in a cut of mostly SP cars. I'm guessing that SP was
'maximizing the use of their fleet of hoppers' when
that happened. Correct?

3) Were there definite changes in the cement usage that
occurred - during the STMFC era (i.e. this list) - that explain
some of the 'anomalies' I've seen?

4) Were the hoppers ever used to transport other commodities
- such as sand - TO the cement plants or did they go to the
plants empty and leave the plants loaded.

5) How long after the introduction of cement hoppers was it
before they took over - carrying by far the majority of the
bulk cement hauls? I'm guessing that it was at most a
decade because it has to be a superior (less costly) way
to transport bulk cement.

6) Does any one know what the percentage of bagged cement
in box cars was "by the end of the STMFC era"?

If most/all of this is answered by looking stuff up on the web -
PLEASE point me to the site(s). What I have found are sites
that are focused on the -current- cement industry - and a few
web sites that cover "what happened for the building of the
Grand Coulee Dam" and other such major projects ... but only
for individual projects.
What I did not find is a site that covers "the history of the
cement industry" ... and especially that part of it that involves
the use of covered hoppers.
- Jim B.

P.S. I find it interesting that covered hoppers for cement service
(and a few other special commodities) rolled out so -long-
before the grain industry tumbled to using similarly
designed cars. Go figure ...


Aley, Jeff A
 

Dooley’s local delivered boxcars of gypsum, empty LO’s, and “Empty Cement Box” cars.  The latter are obviously cars graded for cement service.

The cars of gypsum came from points west; he delivered 1 – 3 cars per day.

 

I was initially surprised that there are no deliveries of coal since this plant includes a large coal crusher to feed the (three) kilns.  Perhaps the coal was delivered at a particular time of year.  Or the coal could have been delivered by the electric interurban that had access to the plant: the Kansas City, Kaw Valley, and Western (KCKV).

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 4:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Covered Hoppers - for Cement

 

 

Hi Jim,

 

                Freight conductor Dooley worked for the Union Pacific in eastern Kansas.  He worked the Local daily except Sunday – eastward one day, westward the next.  So the data below is actually HALF of the data in each direction (there was another local in the opposite direction, but I don’t have that conductor’s books).

 

Between 3/16/1955 and 5/16/1955, Dooley’s WESTWARD train picked up 53 cars of cement from the big Lone Star plant at Sunflower (Bonner Springs), KS.  The pickups ranged from 2 cars – 6 cars per day.

Of those 53 cars, 30 were box cars (probably cement in barrels), 20 were in LO’s (one B&O, one HWCX, and the rest UP), and 3 were Gons (CBQ 15366, TNO 61598, and NKP 5371).

The cars were billed to a variety of nearby destinations (Hays, Junction City, Manhattan (KS), Salina, Wakeeney, etc.)

 

There was also one car of cement received by the UP at Kansas City, and delivered to Lawrence.  It was in WAB 84771, a boxcar.

 

 

EASTWARD:

Between 3/11/1955 and 5/14/1955 (not all days included) there were 26 cars of cement picked up from the same plant at Sunflower, at a rate of 1 – 4 cars per day.  Of those, 23 were UP LO’s, and 3 were boxcars (DL&W, NH, and CB&Q).  24 of the 26 were destined for interchange at Kansas City.

 

 

 

I’ll send another message about the cars delivered to the cement plant.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:33 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Covered Hoppers - for Cement

 

 

Hello my knowledgeable friends,

My knowledge is less than complete about the topic "covered hoppers
in cement service. It seems like every time I learn one part of this
type of service - it only brings up new questions ...

I know that the GN first started experimenting with 70t covered
hoppers for this service very soon after WWII ('46) and then did
fairly large orders of them in '48 and '49.
I also understand that cement service was more of a"regional
thing" than a trans con service - because there were/are cement
plants in almost every region of the country - and cement is a
fairly heavy commodity. And it is often used for big projects such
as the building of a dam, expansion of the interstates, etc. The
results of these facts were that, for the most part, cement
hoppers tended to be in 'captive service' and it was fairly rare
for them to be interchanged to more than one 'other road'.
Most cement hoppers seem to have a 'range' of "about 200 miles
or so" - which probably directly relates to how far it is between
the various cement producing plants.
The end result was that you see/would see "cuts of cars" that
were usually from one parent road. Such as a cut of GN cars
going to/from a particular cement plant ... and also to/from
a particular consignee.
I've studied as many pics as I can and have the following
questions:

1) What was the 'source' (reason) for seeing a few cars
from other roads in the same cuts of cars? Were
these cars likely to be on a 'permanent short/long
term loan' kind of deal where they stayed in the
same service for a few trips (or many)?

2) I have often seen something like an SSW cement hopper
in a cut of mostly SP cars. I'm guessing that SP was
'maximizing the use of their fleet of hoppers' when
that happened. Correct?

3) Were there definite changes in the cement usage that
occurred - during the STMFC era (i.e. this list) - that explain
some of the 'anomalies' I've seen?

4) Were the hoppers ever used to transport other commodities
- such as sand - TO the cement plants or did they go to the
plants empty and leave the plants loaded.

5) How long after the introduction of cement hoppers was it
before they took over - carrying by far the majority of the
bulk cement hauls? I'm guessing that it was at most a
decade because it has to be a superior (less costly) way
to transport bulk cement.

6) Does any one know what the percentage of bagged cement
in box cars was "by the end of the STMFC era"?

If most/all of this is answered by looking stuff up on the web -
PLEASE point me to the site(s). What I have found are sites
that are focused on the -current- cement industry - and a few
web sites that cover "what happened for the building of the
Grand Coulee Dam" and other such major projects ... but only
for individual projects.
What I did not find is a site that covers "the history of the
cement industry" ... and especially that part of it that involves
the use of covered hoppers.
- Jim B.

P.S. I find it interesting that covered hoppers for cement service
(and a few other special commodities) rolled out so -long-
before the grain industry tumbled to using similarly
designed cars. Go figure ...


Tony Thompson
 

 Jeff Aley wrote:

 
Of those 53 cars, 30 were box cars (probably cement in barrels), 20 were in LO’s (one B&O, one HWCX, and the rest UP), and 3 were Gons (CBQ 15366, TNO 61598, and NKP 5371).

    Perhaps it's my lack of imagination, but gondolas of cement are kind of hard to picture. Small nit: T&NO 61598 was a box car, as was NKP 5371 and CBQ 15366.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





RICH CHAPIN
 

The July 1931 ORER lists a first time entry,  cars # 50000 to 50017 listed as “cement, steel hopper bottom”, no class designation. 

 

In the May 1932 ORER, this car series had been expanded to 50029, assigned class LO, and described as “special type, steel hatchway roof, hopper bottom”

 

The LV also operated gondolas [series 27200] carrying air activated containers for cement. Ten of these were a new entry in the July 1936 ORER.

 

Rich Chapin


Clark Propst
 

I have a friend who worked at one of the local cement plants as a clean sealer in the mid-late 50s, early 60s. He’s told me that in mid-late summer 100 car days were not uncommon. I think he was talking box cars (bagged product) I should see him tomorrow, I’ll ask about covered hopper percentages. Keep in mind the (locally) no trucks haul cement from plants till 60.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


water.kresse@...
 

Did they set up temporary trestles close to the construction site to unload the dry cement-mix between the tracks into conveyers to load local dump trucks to carry it to the mixer next to the pouring site?  Early bottom dump doors just slid sideways and gravity did the rest?
Al Kresse
 


From: "cepropst@q.com [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 8:49:42 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Covered Hoppers - for Cement

 

I have a friend who worked at one of the local cement plants as a clean sealer in the mid-late 50s, early 60s. He’s told me that in mid-late summer 100 car days were not uncommon. I think he was talking box cars (bagged product) I should see him tomorrow, I’ll ask about covered hopper percentages. Keep in mind the (locally) no trucks haul cement from plants till 60.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <water.kresse@...> wrote :

Did they set up temporary trestles close to the construction site to unload the dry cement-mix between the tracks into conveyers to load local dump trucks to carry it to the mixer next to the pouring site?  Early bottom dump doors just slid sideways and gravity did the rest?
Al Kresse
==============

No need for a trestle. Someplace I have photos of a portable concrete batch plant that was set up semi-permanently along the Soo Line in northern Wisconsin for years. The dump pit for the cement hoppers was exceedingly small; a welded steel box that fit under the rails between two track ties, and had a five or six inch diameter auger in it. I don't think the box was more than 12" wide. The standard outlet gate for a cement car was a sliding gate opened by a rack and pinion, so it could be slowly cracked open until the cement stated to flow when the car "shaker" (vibrator) was turned on.

Dennis Storzek


Aley, Jeff A
 

Tony,

 

                Thanks.  I had not yet taken the time to look up the car #’s in the ORER (which is why I provided them in my posting).  I’ll have to go back and look to see if the error in car type is in the original or in my transcription.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 11:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Covered Hoppers - for Cement

 

 

 Jeff Aley wrote:



 

Of those 53 cars, 30 were box cars (probably cement in barrels), 20 were in LO’s (one B&O, one HWCX, and the rest UP), and 3 were Gons (CBQ 15366, TNO 61598, and NKP 5371).

 

    Perhaps it's my lack of imagination, but gondolas of cement are kind of hard to picture. Small nit: T&NO 61598 was a box car, as was NKP 5371 and CBQ 15366.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history