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Help Finding Large Layout SIG

John Sykes III
 

Help!  I've started working on my 1952-1956 vintage PRR layout.  Its going to be a somewhat freelance layout with industries from Lehigh Cement to the Middle Division interchange with the EBT and west.  The layout will, essentially, fill my 20 x 20 ft two car garage and extend into the house with a 24 ft long shelf extension.  It will basically function as a point-to-loop layout (in John Armstrong's terminology). Although not in the same category as Ken McCorry's layout, the only layout SIG I could find here was for small layouts (4 x 8 ft, or switching shelf layouts).


Among other things, I need some help with things like deciphering PECO's Code 100 track terminology (large radius vs. medium radius vs. small radius, etc). and other issues.  I am designing it for operations as well as running trains on a large double-track oval portion of it for club-sponsored open houses (or from my bedroom staging out to the loop and back to my bedroom).


-- John
Douglas Harding
 

John there is no Large Layout SIG, if by SIG you mean an NMRA SIG (Special Interest Group). There is a Layout Design SIG which can help and an Operations SIG that might also be of assistance. Both of these SIGS also have Yahoo Groups like the STMFC group. You can find the contact information for SIGS at: http://www.nmra.org/special-interest-groups

 

There are various other Yahoo groups focused on layout designs both large and smal, but you are on your own finding them as they are not SIGs.

 

Anything further we should take off list.

 

Doug Harding

Who happens to be the NMRA SIG Coordinator

 
Scott H. Haycock
 

While the two SIGs Doug mentioned are great resources, there is also a Layout Construction Yahoo group that may be a better resource for your questions.

This list is narrowly defined to  pre 1960 freight cars.


Scott Haycock

 


John there is no Large Layout SIG, if by SIG you mean an NMRA SIG (Special Interest Group). There is a Layout Design SIG which can help and an Operations SIG that might also be of assistance. Both of these SIGS also have Yahoo Groups like the STMFC group. You can find the contact information for SIGS at: http://www.nmra.org/special-interest-groups

 

There are various other Yahoo groups focused on layout designs both large and smal, but you are on your own finding them as they are not SIGs.

 

Anything further we should take off list.

 

Doug Harding

Who happens to be the NMRA SIG Coordinator

 
Gary Ray
 

Hi John,

 


Radius depends on what type of locos you are running.  I’m all steam.  My previous layout had 30” minimum radii and I found there was too much tinkering with the larger locos (2-10-2 for instance) to get them to negotiate that size curve.  My current layout is 24’ x 60’ and I opted for 40” min. radius.  I assume since you are a member of the STMFC group that you will be running at least some steam.  I’d suggest putting down some track at various radii and try running your largest locomotive.  If you don’t have large steam yet and plan on it, perhaps you could borrow one of the largest you plan on running.  Better safe than sorry.

 

Hope this helps,

Gary Ray

__,_._

 

Among other things, I need some help with things like deciphering PECO's Code 100 track terminology (large radius vs. medium radius vs. small radius, etc). and other issues.  

,___
paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Hi John 
Whilst my layout is nowhere near as large as Gary's i use 38" minimum for SP cabforwards (brass) a 2-8-8-4, 4-10-2s, 2-10-2s and 4-8-4s all cope with 38" as Gary says lay a test track and test your locos.
Paul  Doggett UK.




Sent from Samsung mobile

"'Gary Ray' gerber1926@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi John,

 


Radius depends on what type of locos you are running.  I’m all steam.  My previous layout had 30” minimum radii and I found there was too much tinkering with the larger locos (2-10-2 for instance) to get them to negotiate that size curve.  My current layout is 24’ x 60’ and I opted for 40” min. radius.  I assume since you are a member of the STMFC group that you will be running at least some steam.  I’d suggest putting down some track at various radii and try running your largest locomotive.  If you don’t have large steam yet and plan on it, perhaps you could borrow one of the largest you plan on running.  Better safe than sorry.

 

Hope this helps,

Gary Ray

__,_._

 

Among other things, I need some help with things like deciphering PECO's Code 100 track terminology (large radius vs. medium radius vs. small radius, etc). and other issues.  

,___
Alex Schneider
 


John,

With regard to PECO turnout radius, I find the following on their web site.

#4 Wye  -- 30"
#5 L or R -- 26"
#6 L or R -- 43"
#7 curved, L or R -- 60" outer, 36" inner
#8 L or R -- 67"
3 way, medium -- 24"
3 way, asymmetrical -- 36"

NMRA Recommended Practice (RP) gives recommended minimum radius and turnout for various classes of equipment. Almost all freight equipment covered by this group (1960 and before) was under 60' long and should run on class "N": 26.5" curves in HO scale and #6 turnouts. A large majority was under 50' and should run on class "M": 23" curves and #6 turnouts.

The radius recommended for steam locomotives is determined by their rigid wheelbase: class "O" for 24 foot (32" minimum radius, #6 turnouts), class "N" for 20 foot, class "M" for 17 feet. Class "P" (40" radius, #7 turnouts) should handle anything. The radius of the outer track(s) on curves needs to be at least another 2.5" larger. See http://nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/rp-11.pdf for more information and other scales.

A fair number of brass models require larger radii than these recommendations; most plastic models meet them and many allow tighter radii. Typically the manufacturer specifies a value.

Designing my 1952 NYC layout, where the longest wheelbase is the 4-8-4 "Niagara", I used 32". Passenger cars would need this anyway. 

To estimate the wheelbase of an engine with N driving axles where driver size is known, multiply the diameter by N-1, then allow about 10% more for spacing between flanges. For the Niagara this would be 79" x 3 = 237" or 19.75, increased about another 2 feet. Mohawks with 72" drivers would be about 18 feet, again increased a couple of feet for spacing.

Alex Schneider

From: "'Gary Ray' gerber1926@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Help Finding Large Layout SIG



Hi John,
 

Radius depends on what type of locos you are running.  I’m all steam.  My previous layout had 30” minimum radii and I found there was too much tinkering with the larger locos (2-10-2 for instance) to get them to negotiate that size curve.  My current layout is 24’ x 60’ and I opted for 40” min. radius.  I assume since you are a member of the STMFC group that you will be running at least some steam.  I’d suggest putting down some track at various radii and try running your largest locomotive.  If you don’t have large steam yet and plan on it, perhaps you could borrow one of the largest you plan on running.  Better safe than sorry.
 
Hope this helps,
Gary Ray
__,_._
 
Among other things, I need some help with things like deciphering PECO's Code 100 track terminology (large radius vs. medium radius vs. small radius, etc). and other issues.  
,___
Tony Thompson
 

Alex Schneider wrote:

 

With regard to PECO turnout radius, I find the following on their web site.

#4 Wye  -- 30"
#5 L or R -- 26"
#6 L or R -- 43"
#7 curved, L or R -- 60" outer, 36" inner
#8 L or R -- 67"
3 way, medium -- 24"
3 way, asymmetrical -- 36"

NMRA Recommended Practice (RP) gives recommended minimum radius and turnout for various classes of equipment. Almost all freight equipment covered by this group (1960 and before) was under 60' long and should run on class "N": 26.5" curves in HO scale and #6 turnouts. A large majority was under 50' and should run on class "M": 23" curves and #6 turnouts.

    Also be aware that Peco turnouts have the European frog design, with rails continually curving through the frog, whereas North American practice in the prototype is straight rails right at the frog itself. The curved frog rails are MUCH more forgiving in our sharp model turnouts, so understanding the turnout numbers in the Peco range can be misleading, compared to Shinohara or other turnouts built to North American practice. My personal view is that only a track specialist would object the almost invisible difference if you have "European" frogs on your layout.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Allen Montgomery <sandbear75@...>
 

IMO, the best part about the Peco turnouts is that you don't have to juice the frogs. While they are plastic, I don't notice any hiccups compared to Shins.
Allen


On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 9:13 AM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Alex Schneider wrote:

 

With regard to PECO turnout radius, I find the following on their web site.

#4 Wye  -- 30"
#5 L or R -- 26"
#6 L or R -- 43"
#7 curved, L or R -- 60" outer, 36" inner
#8 L or R -- 67"
3 way, medium -- 24"
3 way, asymmetrical -- 36"

NMRA Recommended Practice (RP) gives recommended minimum radius and turnout for various classes of equipment. Almost all freight equipment covered by this group (1960 and before) was under 60' long and should run on class "N": 26.5" curves in HO scale and #6 turnouts. A large majority was under 50' and should run on class "M": 23" curves and #6 turnouts.

    Also be aware that Peco turnouts have the European frog design, with rails continually curving through the frog, whereas North American practice in the prototype is straight rails right at the frog itself. The curved frog rails are MUCH more forgiving in our sharp model turnouts, so understanding the turnout numbers in the Peco range can be misleading, compared to Shinohara or other turnouts built to North American practice. My personal view is that only a track specialist would object the almost invisible difference if you have "European" frogs on your layout.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
John Sykes III
 

Sorry.  When I said "SIG" I meant generic special interest groups, not necessarily NMRA.  I looked around here but only could find a Small Layout Group.  I could have sworn that there was a general layout group here on Yahoo once, but I can't find it.

--John
George Simmons
 

There is a yahoo group for the Layout Design SIG look for ldsig in the groups.  There was also a large layout yahoo group at one time, I'm not sure if it is still active but you could under large layouts.


George W. Simmons

Dry Prong, LA
Douglas Harding
 

John, SIG, ie Special Interest Group, is a NMRA term/phrase. There is an application and guidelines through the NMRA for becoming a SIG. Yahoo Groups are an entirely different animal, so to speak. Some of the NMRA SIGs do have similar named Yahoo Groups. Both the Layout Design SIG or LDSIG and the Operations SIG or OPSIG have Yahoo Groups, but they are not SIGs. By the way neither requires you to be a SIG member to participate in their Yahoo Group.

 

I think what you are asking about are Yahoo Groups, ie email exchanges like the Steam Era Freight Car Group STMFC where this thread appears, and not SIGs. To find a Yahoo Group you need to go Yahoo’s website and search under their Groups listings.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

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