Creation of removable false-bottomed coal/gravel loads.


Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

How have listers commonly gone about creating their own coal/gravel/crushed rock, etc. loads without filling the entire car with a fortune of model commodity materials, or creating a weight sink hard to actually be pulled down the rails? Removable is far to be preferred.

Personally, I have used shaped balsa blocks,wadded paper, styrofoam, and fabricated boxes of styrene, etc., all of which have their challenges. Although my question is aimed at a myriad of open cars, my particular challenge at the moment is a brass tender with deep coal space and rolled upper sides. This tender was designed to be used with, and will only be used to lead not only just one Steam Era freight car, but in fact, in serial fashion probably thousands.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Tony Thompson
 

Denny Anspach wrote:

 

How have listers commonly gone about creating their own coal/gravel/crushed rock, etc. loads without filling the entire car with a fortune of model commodity materials, or creating a weight sink hard to actually be pulled down the rails? Removable is far to be preferred.

Personally, I have used shaped balsa blocks,wadded paper, styrofoam, and fabricated boxes of styrene, etc., all of which have their challenges. Although my question is aimed at a myriad of open cars, my particular challenge at the moment is a brass tender with deep coal space and rolled upper sides. This tender was designed to be used with, and will only be used to lead not only just one Steam Era freight car, but in fact, in serial fashion probably thousands.


       In deeper spaces, I just add a cross-piece below the modeled surface, to serve as a spacer and raise the load to the desired level. Some cars with slope sheets don't require this, as the sheet material on which the load (coal or whatever) sits can rest on the slope sheet.
        I have shown examples of a number of my bulk load designs in a prior blog post. If you would like to see them, here is a link:


The cross-piece spacers are near the bottom, so scroll down to them.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Charles Peck
 

Denny, I have commonly used carved foam blocks to fill hoppers and such.
I have faced the problem of a tender with rolled in top.  What I am leaning
towards doing but have not actually tried is this.
Cut and shape a rather stiff synthetic sponge to fill the bottom area of the
coal space. Dampen the sponge into softness and insert.  After it dries,
add live load on top.  To remove, dump the layer of live load and add
water a few ccs at a time until the sponge softens enough to remove.
Just a theory so far but want to try it when I get the electronics installed
inside.
Chuck Peck in FL  

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

How have listers commonly gone about creating their own coal/gravel/crushed rock, etc. loads without filling the entire car with a fortune of model commodity materials, or creating a weight sink hard to actually be pulled down the rails? Removable is far to be preferred.

Personally, I have used shaped balsa blocks,wadded paper, styrofoam, and fabricated boxes of styrene, etc., all of which have their challenges. Although my question is aimed at a myriad of open cars, my particular challenge at the moment is a brass tender with deep coal space and rolled upper sides. This tender was designed to be used with, and will only be used to lead not only just one Steam Era freight car, but in fact, in serial fashion probably thousands.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864



Douglas Harding
 

Denny as you are asking about a tender my thought is to go with a partial coal pile, not a full tender. Then you can put the coal below the rolled edge. Create a support base, my preference is a piece of extruded styrene foam. Shape it as you desire, then paint it flat black. For a partial tender load, be sure to shape it to indicate the coal has been scooped out or fallen into the auger. You could make this in two parts for easy removal, glue model coal on top. Then once installed in the tender, sprinkle enough loose coal to cover the seam.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


William Sharpe <wsharpe1@...>
 

Denny,

Lately I have rethought my tender loads when moving SEFC.
Unless you can always proclaim that the locomotive has just left a servicing
facility as I cannot, then the tender coal load will be somewhat depleted.
In the past I always brimmed my tender loads. Of late I model with less is
better. You can then weather inside the tender coal hopper and your build
up job need not be as extensive. In viewing many steam hauled freight car
consists I see that the tender shows less tender coal than most modeler
choose to model.

Bill

William H. Sharpe

Hamilton, Ontario

Canada







From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:38 PM
To: Era Freight Car List Steam
Subject: [STMFC] Creation of removable false-bottomed coal/gravel loads.





How have listers commonly gone about creating their own coal/gravel/crushed
rock, etc. loads without filling the entire car with a fortune of model
commodity materials, or creating a weight sink hard to actually be pulled
down the rails? Removable is far to be preferred.

Personally, I have used shaped balsa blocks,wadded paper, styrofoam, and
fabricated boxes of styrene, etc., all of which have their challenges.
Although my question is aimed at a myriad of open cars, my particular
challenge at the moment is a brass tender with deep coal space and rolled
upper sides. This tender was designed to be used with, and will only be used
to lead not only just one Steam Era freight car, but in fact, in serial
fashion probably thousands.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Jim Betz
 

Denny,

1) It's a tender - so it doesn't have to be removable ...
so follow one of the procedures below.

2) Fill the void in an open car such as a coal hopper
with a layer of foam core board - cut with beveled
edges. Glue in place using white glue or KK. Add
coal/ore/whatever on top of the foam core.
Some guys put some steel in the load and 'pick'
the load out with a strong magnet. I usually just
glue it in place ... and swap empty cars for loaded
during ops.

3) I've also built a styrene "shelf" a couple of times.
One time I built 'feet' under it the other time I
glued the load in over the styrene sheet. Both
worked just fine.
In a tender using a false floor has the advantage
that other stuff can be below it.

4) I often load the entire space with whatever
material required ... for instance a coal tender
that has its own false bottom about 1/4th inch
below the 'top' ... so I used "model coal" for the
entire thing.

5) There are -lots- of options for stuff to fill the
space that are inexpensive ... only the top layer
needs to be "the expensive stuff that looks right" ...
Rice, cereal, sawdust, kit sprues, Chili's sandwich
skewers, plastic 'silverware' broken into small
pieces, bottom layer of nuts/bolts (for weight) and
the rest something cheap, folded up paper towels,
cardboard from a USPS priority mail box, styrene
pellets, R/C "micro balls" (think small ball bearings
of styrofoam), sand (from the beach or a river bed),
dirt from the back yard, last night's left over Thai
Green Curry Chicken, eggplant (what -else- would
you use it for ... certainly NOT to eat ... *G*, the
list is endless ...

6) If you are clever/careful you can probably even
fill the bottom, glue in a load, and remove most
of the filler material from below.
- Jim B.

P.S. Or just do what the prototype did on a large majority
of their steam engines in the era that most of us on
this list model ===> convert it to oil ...


JoelDee
 

Hello,
With pulling many cars, you may need extra weight to hold the front of the tender down.
Fill the coal space with pennies to the ounces needed and top off with the base materials
used previously then the a topping of the preferred commodity. I place shrink wrap in the
space and glue the pennies together to create the height needed, but for gondolas, pillars
of glued pennies work as corner supports and to bring them up to weight.  Like most of us,
it will be a good reason to use all the pennies that seem to be in containers everywhere in
the home.
Joel Dethlefs


william darnaby
 

Hi Denny. Good to hear from you. I have always used live loads for every
commodity and tenders. There are sound arguments for both sides and I made
my choice. There are roughly 150 hoppers in coal service floating around
the railroad that are of all prototypes (STMFC, of course) and model
manufacturers. Keeping track of removable loads for each would make me
crazier than I am. This doesn't even consider storage for the same. Now my
storage is coffee cans. YMMV.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 9:38 PM
To: Era Freight Car List Steam <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Creation of removable false-bottomed coal/gravel loads.

How have listers commonly gone about creating their own coal/gravel/crushed
rock, etc. loads without filling the entire car with a fortune of model
commodity materials, or creating a weight sink hard to actually be pulled
down the rails? Removable is far to be preferred.

Personally, I have used shaped balsa blocks,wadded paper, styrofoam, and
fabricated boxes of styrene, etc., all of which have their challenges.
Although my question is aimed at a myriad of open cars, my particular
challenge at the moment is a brass tender with deep coal space and rolled
upper sides. This tender was designed to be used with, and will only be used
to lead not only just one Steam Era freight car, but in fact, in serial
fashion probably thousands.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864



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Posted by: Anspach Denny <danspachmd@gmail.com>
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Yahoo Groups Links


Michael Watnoski
 

Hi Denny,

I always make my own loads. I typically use styrofoam meat trays or carryout boxes, painted black or load color.

I cut the foam to wedge in the space tightly, about 1/8 " below the edge of the car, and use plastic teaspoon to dump the material in a realistic pile. I spray with a fine mist of rubbing alcohol then saturate with matte medium. Let it dry over night.

These can be removed by soaking overnight in ammonia.

HTH

Michael

On 3/23/2016 10:37 PM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@gmail.com [STMFC] wrote:
How have listers commonly gone about creating their own coal/gravel/crushed rock, etc. loads without filling the entire car with a fortune of model commodity materials, or creating a weight sink hard to actually be pulled down the rails? Removable is far to be preferred.

Personally, I have used shaped balsa blocks,wadded paper, styrofoam, and fabricated boxes of styrene, etc., all of which have their challenges. Although my question is aimed at a myriad of open cars, my particular challenge at the moment is a brass tender with deep coal space and rolled upper sides. This tender was designed to be used with, and will only be used to lead not only just one Steam Era freight car, but in fact, in serial fashion probably thousands.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864



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Posted by: Anspach Denny <danspachmd@gmail.com>
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Yahoo Groups Links




Tim O'Connor
 


Since the underside of my loads are flat, I use a label maker
(Brother, makes heat-sensitive tape labels) and affix under the
load with the car number and my name or initials. But I don't
have that many to keep track of... for open cars I like to use
foam board as the foundation. It's cheap and easy to cut with
scissors or X-acto knife.

Tim O'



Hi Denny.  Good to hear from you.  I have always used live loads for every
commodity and tenders.  There are sound arguments for both sides and I made
my choice.  There are roughly 150 hoppers in coal service floating around
the railroad that are of all prototypes (STMFC, of course) and model
manufacturers.  Keeping track of removable loads for each would make me
crazier than I am.  This doesn't even consider storage for the same.  Now my
storage is coffee cans.  YMMV.

Bill Darnaby


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Personally, it is always so reassuring to receive thoughts from such a distinguished group of distinguished modelers such as have responded to this question.

I love live loads but have largely avoided them because of derailment possibilities and I truly have not considered the ready-at-hand ‘coffee can’ solution to the needs of car servicing .. That Bill’s Maumee Lines have few serious derailments speaks to his faith in this practice. I am also very certain that true to prototype practice, when a derailment dumps a load of coal or gravel on Bill's main, everything stops on the Maumee until a Sheepscot , Burro or similar bucket crane clears the way.

As to tender weight: Most brass tenders require in the worst way a significant reduction in weight. Many have OEM weights equal to the string of freight cars trundling along behind. Because of this lightweight foam fillers coated with coal can be an attractive option; but knowing how foam over time can deteriorate into a corrosive mass, do I dare exercise this choice? H-mmm.

If necessary, non-destructive removal of a glued mass of coal can be challenging. I have carefully been chipping away for some months at the removal of a mass of coarse coal secured en masse with white glue some 50 years ago in a now-valuable antique gondola, whose value largely depends upon saving the original paint and letter work. Water and 60% alcohol helps, but a jackhammer is still being needed.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


frograbbit602
 

I have used poured plaster, wood, various foams, and foam core for the base of removable coal, gravel, sand, scrap and beet loads; however, last year I found a new material for the base I really like.   It is sold as insulation, the one I bought at a home improvement store was specifically made for install of window air conditioners.  I do not know the specific brand name as disposed of packing.  The insulation I bought is  1 1/2 inches wide by 1/2 inch in depth.  It is black in color, so no painting needed, feels like foam, acts like rubber when pressed or squeezed.  The insulation cuts and shapes with ordinary house scissors. 

To make loads I cut and shape load base to size for hopper or gondola, remove load base from car and place on a scrap piece of cardboard or wax paper, cover with white glue, and add the load material such as scale coal of choice,  I add load material until I have desired load shape.  Once I have the load at this point I saturate with wet water ( water, white glue and liquid detergent ) and let dry overnight.   I use hooks to remove loads.

Lester Breuer



Jack Mullen
 

Denny,



Jack Mullen
 

Denny,

If I understand the problem statement, you need to fashion a removable load that fits under the inward curve of the tender sides, IOW, the base of the load is wider than the opening above it. From your later post, I think that you don't need it to be removable in the sense of swapping load for empty, but just to have it be ultimately removable without having to chip it out or repaint the tender.

My approach would to make the base in three pieces, one fitted to each side, and the third to fit between.
I'd use either styrofoam insulation or good ol' balsa. You also need to avoid inadvertently gluing the base blocks to the tender. I'd apply coal to each base piece and let that dry before inserting into the tender, then touch up with a little more to cover the joints. IIRC, I also used waxed paper to separate the base pieces. Not sure that was necessary.

Disclaimer - I used this approach exactly once, about 40 years ago, to put a load in an offset-side hopper which was my only brass model at the time. A couple decades later when the car needed repair and upgrading after rough handling, the load did come out cleanly.

Jack Mullen