brake wheel, brake staff


ed_mines
 

Sounds like a song.


Does anyone sell HO scale horizontal brake wheels made of metal, either lost wax or etched?


What is the actual thickness of brake staffs? Tichy recommends .020 inch wire in their reefer kit which translates to about 1.74 inches which I think would be overkill. Remember a barbell bar is about one inch. 


Ed Mines 


armprem
 


 Try Precision Scale. Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 11:55 AM
Subject: [STMFC] brake wheel, brake staff

Sounds like a song.


Does anyone sell HO scale horizontal brake wheels made of metal, either lost wax or etched?


What is the actual thickness of brake staffs? Tichy recommends .020 inch wire in their reefer kit which translates to about 1.74 inches which I think would be overkill. Remember a barbell bar is about one inch. 


Ed Mines 

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paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Ed

The problem is less than 0.015" and they are somewhat vulnerable if they get a knock i usually use 0.015".
Paul Doggett UK




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"'Armand' armprem@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 



 Try Precision Scale. Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 11:55 AM
Subject: [STMFC] brake wheel, brake staff

Sounds like a song.


Does anyone sell HO scale horizontal brake wheels made of metal, either lost wax or etched?


What is the actual thickness of brake staffs? Tichy recommends .020 inch wire in their reefer kit which translates to about 1.74 inches which I think would be overkill. Remember a barbell bar is about one inch. 


Ed Mines 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4855 / Virus Database: 4477/11875 - Release Date: 03/24/16


Tony Thompson
 

Ed Mines wrote:

What is the actual thickness of brake staffs? Tichy recommends .020 inch wire in their reefer kit which translates to about 1.74 inches which I think would be overkill. Remember a barbell bar is about one inch. 


    The 0.019-inch wire is exactlu tje same as nominal pipe size 1-1/4 inches, used for handrails and similar safety applicances. It might be correct for brake staffs, though I can't seem to turn up a dimension in a quick look through some Cycs. Probably Dennis Storzek knows.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Yes, as Armand mentioned, Precision Scale has a number of brake wheels in lost wax brass. I’ll send you a page directly showing the variations. Precision does sell direct but there is a minimum order of $30 (easy to meet if you are willing to stock pile things that you are going to need). Call them at 406/642-3901 Mountain time to place an order. The very competent staff there will take your order and get it filled ASAP.



Jack



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 8:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] brake wheel, brake staff








Sounds like a song.



Does anyone sell HO scale horizontal brake wheels made of metal, either lost wax or etched?



What is the actual thickness of brake staffs? Tichy recommends .020 inch wire in their reefer kit which translates to about 1.74 inches which I think would be overkill. Remember a barbell bar is about one inch.



Ed Mines


Robert Heninger
 

This is timely, as I have been wondering which of the variations is the most common on the prototype. PSC lists 4 spoke, 5 spoke, and 6 spoke wheels in a larger size (21" or 22" diameter, IIRC) as well as smaller 16" sized wheels, which I believe are for narrow gauge equipment.


Does anyone have any idea which wheel (i.e., which spoke count) was the most common on standard gauge STMFCs? It seems to me most I have seen are 5 and 6 spoke, but it is often hard to tell in photographs.


Regards,

Bob Heninger

Minot, ND


Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

RMC published a table of freight car pipe and rod sizes (among other
prototype pipe and rod sizes for steam and diesel locomotives) in the 1962
issue with the 1983 calendar pull-out. The month isn’t specified, but it
may have been the December issue.



Horizontal brake staffs are listed as 1 ¼ to 1 3/8 in (1.25 to 1.375 in.).
Other brake gear dimensions listed are:



Brake pipe 1 5/8 in.

Brake line hose (22 in. standard length) 2 1/8 in.

Branch pipe to triple valve (both K and AB) 1 3/8 in.

Triple valve to reservoirs 1 in.

Triple valve to brake cylinder 1 in.

Retaining valve pipe 5/8 in.

Hand brake rod ¾ to 7/8 in.

Brake rods 7/8 in.



Other data:

Grab irons ¾ in.

Couple release levers 1 in.

Ladder rungs ¾ in.

Reefer ice bunker drains 4 in.

Caboose end railings 7/8 to 1 ¼ in.

Pipe to conductor’s valve 1 in.



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 12:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] brake wheel, brake staff





Ed Mines wrote:





What is the actual thickness of brake staffs? Tichy recommends .020 inch
wire in their reefer kit which translates to about 1.74 inches which I think
would be overkill. Remember a barbell bar is about one inch.



The 0.019-inch wire is exactlu tje same as nominal pipe size 1-1/4
inches, used for handrails and similar safety applicances. It might be
correct for brake staffs, though I can't seem to turn up a dimension in a
quick look through some Cycs. Probably Dennis Storzek knows.



Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
<http://www.signaturepress.com>

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
<mailto:tony@...>

Publishers of books on railroad history


Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Sorry about the date typo, it was supposed to be the December 1982 issue.



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 1:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] brake wheel, brake staff





RMC published a table of freight car pipe and rod sizes (among other
prototype pipe and rod sizes for steam and diesel locomotives) in the 1962
issue with the 1983 calendar pull-out. The month isn’t specified, but it
may have been the December issue.

Horizontal brake staffs are listed as 1 ¼ to 1 3/8 in (1.25 to 1.375 in.).
Other brake gear dimensions listed are:

Brake pipe 1 5/8 in.

Brake line hose (22 in. standard length) 2 1/8 in.

Branch pipe to triple valve (both K and AB) 1 3/8 in.

Triple valve to reservoirs 1 in.

Triple valve to brake cylinder 1 in.

Retaining valve pipe 5/8 in.

Hand brake rod ¾ to 7/8 in.

Brake rods 7/8 in.

Other data:

Grab irons ¾ in.

Couple release levers 1 in.

Ladder rungs ¾ in.

Reefer ice bunker drains 4 in.

Caboose end railings 7/8 to 1 ¼ in.

Pipe to conductor’s valve 1 in.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 12:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] brake wheel, brake staff

Ed Mines wrote:

What is the actual thickness of brake staffs? Tichy recommends .020 inch
wire in their reefer kit which translates to about 1.74 inches which I think
would be overkill. Remember a barbell bar is about one inch.

The 0.019-inch wire is exactlu tje same as nominal pipe size 1-1/4
inches, used for handrails and similar safety applicances. It might be
correct for brake staffs, though I can't seem to turn up a dimension in a
quick look through some Cycs. Probably Dennis Storzek knows.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
<http://www.signaturepress.com>

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
<mailto:tony@...>

Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

 

RMC published a table of freight car pipe and rod sizes (among other
prototype pipe and rod sizes for steam and diesel locomotives)  . . .


     Nelson, do they say if these are actual dimensions or nominal pipe sizes, for the parts that are pipe? Nominal pipe size is not an actual OD.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Rhbale@...
 

There is more to brakes wheels than the number of spokes. For  a detailed look at brake wheels of all types visit  http://mrhpub.com/2013-11-nov/land#110 .
 
Richard Bale.
 


destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Nelson Moyer wrote:

 

RMC published a table of freight car pipe and rod sizes (among other
prototype pipe and rod sizes for steam and diesel locomotives)  . . .


     Nelson, do they say if these are actual dimensions or nominal pipe sizes, for the parts that are pipe? Nominal pipe size is not an actual OD.
==============

Right. Machinery's Handbook gives the outside diameter of ANSI 1-1/4" pipe as 1.660", that works out to .019" in HO scale.

The Pullman drawings for the NYC 36' boxcar are still laying on my drafting table. One drawing shows the brake staff as an actual 1-1/4" diameter, which would scale to .0144", pretty darned close to .015", especially since the RMC reference leaves open the possibility that 1-3/8" dia. rod was used also. That would scale to .016".

There is also a drawing of the NYC standard cast iron brake wheel of the era (1911). It's 15" in diameter with six slightly swirled spokes, which proves that these small wheels were used on more than just narrow gauge cars.

Dennis Storzek


Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

There is a separate table of nominal pipe and tubing sizes with their true dimensions in inches. The freight car (also steam and diesel) piping and rod tables are presumably actual inches, though the authors do not state this directly. The table is intended for modelers, so I doubt that they would give rod and piping data in nominal sizes.



A series of data tables was published on the back of RMC calendars in the last 1970 and early 1980. There were large centerfold pull-outs that were the size equivalent of four regular size pages when unfolded. They gave all fraction/decimal/metric/scale conversions, scale conversions for nominal lumber sizes, wire and tubing sizes in scale and true dimensions, screw pitches, drill sizes by #/in./mm, tap and die specifications and drill sizes, everything you can think of that would be of use to modelers in all the popular scales. They are invaluable references. I’m not aware of digitalized equivalents, and most of the tables are too large for my flatbed scanner.



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 2:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] brake wheel, brake staff









---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Nelson Moyer wrote:





RMC published a table of freight car pipe and rod sizes (among other
prototype pipe and rod sizes for steam and diesel locomotives) . . .



Nelson, do they say if these are actual dimensions or nominal pipe sizes, for the parts that are pipe? Nominal pipe size is not an actual OD.
==============

Right. Machinery's Handbook gives the outside diameter of ANSI 1-1/4" pipe as 1.660", that works out to .019" in HO scale.

The Pullman drawings for the NYC 36' boxcar are still laying on my drafting table. One drawing shows the brake staff as an actual 1-1/4" diameter, which would scale to .0144", pretty darned close to .015", especially since the RMC reference leaves open the possibility that 1-3/8" dia. rod was used also. That would scale to .016".

There is also a drawing of the NYC standard cast iron brake wheel of the era (1911). It's 15" in diameter with six slightly swirled spokes, which proves that these small wheels were used on more than just narrow gauge cars.


Dennis Storzek


Douglas Harding
 

Richard Bale wrote a nice article on freight car hand brakes in http://mrhpub.com/2013-11-nov/land/#/110 The article includes many examples of brake wheels, including the vertical post kind.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Mark Vinski
 

 The 1980 Car and Locomotive Cyc shows a 1 1/4 inch square shaft with a 16" brake wheel.

       This scales to a little more than .014 in HO. I found staples that match this dimension with a little filing to make it square. The steel is much stronger than brass in this size.

       While this is newer than steam era, I doubt there was much change. The square shaft is on a drop shaft  hand brake. Does anyone make a model of a drop shaft hand brake for flat cars? My detailing of some Proto 2000 flats is held up by a lack of this part.


Mark Vinski


S. Busch
 


Ed Mines asked, "Does anyone sell HO scale horizontal brake wheels made of metal, either lost wax or etched?"
 
Beside Precision Scale mentioned before, Cal-Scale also makes them in brass.  They are Cal-Scale's part number 190-289.  I solder them onto a phospher bronze shaft.
 
Regards,
Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


John Sykes III
 

Kadee does (p/n # 440).  They are a pretty good match for the PRR style with curved spokes. I think they are made of the same metal as the couplers.

-- John


destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <johnsykesiii@...> wrote :

Kadee does (p/n # 440).  They are a pretty good match for the PRR style with curved spokes. I think they are made of the same metal as the couplers.

-- John
===============

Some clarification is in order, since most cast iron brake wheels have "curved spokes"; it's good foundry practice. What John means is the style used by the PRR where the curve of the spokes continued into the rim, giving it a multi-lobed shape like this:

https://cdn0.rubylane.com/shops/timestreasures/5634.1L.jpg?38

Dennis Storzek
 


ed_mines
 

If you want to see pipe sizes look at wiki - nominal pipe size. Different wall thickness pipes have the same OD so they can use the same fittings.


I've seen where brake staffs are square. The smallest square metal rods I can find are .031 inches.


Thin wires too fragile? How about brake platforms with those wimpy supports?


Is Precision Scale still in business? I can't connect with their web site.


Hobbylinc shows Cal Scale brass brake wheels to be in stock (at a discount no less) as does Bowser. Have had good luck with Hobbylinc so far so will order from them.


Ed Mines



Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Yes, Precision Scale is in business but their website might be down due to weather or something. You can’t order from their website regardless except for catalogs and you really need a catalog to see everything they have. If you know what you want, you need to call them.



Jack Burgess



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 9:55 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: brake wheel, brake staff



If you want to see pipe sizes look at wiki - nominal pipe size. Different wall thickness pipes have the same OD so they can use the same fittings.

I've seen where brake staffs are square. The smallest square metal rods I can find are .031 inches.

Thin wires too fragile? How about brake platforms with those wimpy supports?

Is Precision Scale still in business? I can't connect with their web site.

Hobbylinc shows Cal Scale brass brake wheels to be in stock (at a discount no less) as does Bowser. Have had good luck with Hobbylinc so far so will order from them.



Ed Mines


Tim O'Connor
 


Or Google for the product # you're looking for. There is scattered
stock all over the place. Pro Custom Hobbies has some items too.

Tim O'Connor




Yes, Precision Scale is in business but their website might be down due to weather or something. You can't order from their website regardless except for catalogs and you really need a catalog to see everything they have. If you know what you want, you need to call them.
Jack Burgess