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Looking to ID a car

Pierre Oliver
 

Guys,
I just put an image up on my blog, of a train crossing the Kettle Creek in St Thomas, ON.
I'd like to identify the first stock car in the consist.
Any input would be appreciated.
The blog post is at; http://elgincarshops.blogspot.ca/2016/04/who-owns-this-car.html

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

Richard Brennan
 

I wonder if it could be an M&StL converted Fowler box car...
It has the Howe truss, six panels, high lettering-board, and the outermost panels have an actual rib (as indicated by the shadow), not just a flat strap.

Perhaps...?

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
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At 11:06 AM 4/4/2016, Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC] wrote:
I just put an image up on my blog, of a train crossing the Kettle Creek
in St Thomas, ON.
I'd like to identify the first stock car in the consist.
Any input would be appreciated.
The blog post is at;
http://elgincarshops.blogspot.ca/2016/04/who-owns-this-car.html

Charles Morrill
 

Looks like an NP 82000 - 83000 stock car to me.

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC] Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 1:06 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Looking to ID a car

Guys,
I just put an image up on my blog, of a train crossing the Kettle Creek in St Thomas, ON.
I'd like to identify the first stock car in the consist.
Any input would be appreciated.
The blog post is at; http://elgincarshops.blogspot.ca/2016/04/who-owns-this-car.html

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com



------------------------------------
Posted by: Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
------------------------------------


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Yahoo Groups Links

destorzek@...
 

Ditto. The lettering is actually on a full length letterboard, two groups of letter that almost fill the left board, and the much shorter number to the right. That says NP to me.

Dennis Storzek

Pierre Oliver
 

I'm not so sure guys.
The prototype images I've looked at for NP cars show a square placard on the lower right for all the dimensional data.
That is missing in the car in question.
It sure is a puzzler for me.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 4/04/16 5:25 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Ditto. The lettering is actually on a full length letterboard, two groups of letter that almost fill the left board, and the much shorter number to the right. That says NP to me.

Dennis Storzek


Benjamin Hom
 

Pierre Oliver asked:
"I just put an image up on my blog, of a train crossing the Kettle Creek
in St Thomas, ON. I'd like to identify the first stock car in the consist." 
http://elgincarshops.blogspot.ca/2016/04/who-owns-this-car.html 

Charlie Morrill replied:
"Looks like an NP 82000 - 83000 stock car to me."

Do not concur.  The NP car has the wrong number of diagonal truss members (3 on each side of the door vice 4 of the NP cars in question), is a single deck car vice this double deck car, and a radial roof, which this car lacks.
My first thought was this car is a Mather, but I've never seen one with letterboards like this car.  (The cars leased by the NP lacked letterboards, including the one carrying reporting marks and capacity data on NP's own stock cars pointed out by Pierre in one of his follow-up posts.)


Ben Hom

Benjamin Hom
 

I wrote:
"y first thought was this car is a Mather, but I've never seen one with letterboards like this car.  (The cars leased by the NP lacked letterboards, including the one carrying reporting marks and capacity data on NP's own stock cars pointed out by Pierre in one of his follow-up posts.)"

Following up on my last post, here are clearance diagrams of the NP Mather double deck cars.
(The URL and website description says "single deck", but this is a double deck car.)


Ben Hom

Matt Herson
 

Definitely not an NP stock car.  NP 82000 series has 4 side panels either side of door -  car in photo has 3.  NP car has radial roof and car in photo does not appear to have radial roof.

 

Matt Herson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 5:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Looking to ID a car

 

 

I'm not so sure guys.
The prototype images I've looked at for NP cars show a square placard on the lower right for all the dimensional data.
That is missing in the car in question.
It sure is a puzzler for me.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 4/04/16 5:25 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Ditto. The lettering is actually on a full length letterboard, two groups of letter that almost fill the left board, and the much shorter number to the right. That says NP to me.

Dennis Storzek

 

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MDelvec952
 



Looks very Mather-like to me, which should narrow it down quite a bit.

The letterboards aren't familiar, though I haven't had my head into stock cars in a while.

             ....Mike Del Vecchio


-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2016 2:06 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Looking to ID a car

 
Guys,
I just put an image up on my blog, of a train crossing the Kettle Creek
in St Thomas, ON.
I'd like to identify the first stock car in the consist.
Any input would be appreciated.
The blog post is at;
http://elgincarshops.blogspot.ca/2016/04/who-owns-this-car.html

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

Douglas Harding
 

 

It looks to be a 36’ car, probably 8’6” inside height or less. Not many roads used that style of side truss, most had the diagonals going the other direction. The high letter boards and lack of lower board for reporting marks eliminates a lot of roads. Also the door design, the horizontal slats and lack of a X bracing also eliminates a lot of cars. The extra wide center slat hints at a double deck, as does the door design. It could have the split doors seen on some double deck cars.

It looks similar to a Mather car or possible a GATC design. Mather did not have many 36’ stockcars, B&O with 16 and MCSX (a Mather reporting mark) had 25 in 1945 down to 9 in 1951.

Looking through my photos shows the following roads had high letter boards without lower boards CNW, CMO, NP, & Mather. But almost all had a visible X bracing across the door.

Of course a better photo would help:)

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Douglas Harding
 

I see on Pierre’s blog someone asked if this could be a M&StL Fowler clone. Photos of M&StL stockcars are rare, very rare. I have one extremely fuzzy photo, which does look a lot like the car in Pierre’s mystery photo. It is a 72000 series car, which was leased from General American. The car matches many of the details except: no wide center slat, the letter board does not extend to the right of the door, the MSTL car has a lower letter board on the left over the ribs, and a round herald mounted high on the right. I will send Pierre a copy of the MSTL photo and he can compare.

 

But a Fowler clone is a distinct possibility. Who had them?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

npin53
 

Armour Stock Express.

Postwar Freight Car Fleet, page 123.

Aaron Gjermundson

Tim O'Connor
 


Not to mention peaked vs radial roof.


I'm not so sure guys.
The prototype images I've looked at for NP cars show a square placard on the lower right for all the dimensional data.
That is missing in the car in question.
It sure is a puzzler for me.


Pierre Oliver
Ditto. The lettering is actually on a full length letterboard, two groups of letter that almost fill the left board, and the much shorter number to the right. That says NP to me.

Dennis Storzek

rob.mclear3@...
 

I have that book as well Aaron and I think you are right certainly fits the bill.

Rob McLear.

Douglas Harding
 

Don't have access to my library, so can't look at the photo Aaron mentioned. Photos I have of armour cars show 40' cars of taller height, different slat arrangements, x brace on the door, a lower letter board and no letter board to the right of the door.

Doug Harding from my phone

From: rob.mclear3@... [STMFC]
Sent: ‎4/‎5/‎2016 3:38 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Looking to ID a car

 

I have that book as well Aaron and I think you are right certainly fits the bill.


Rob McLear.


[The entire original message is not included.]

ed_mines
 

I am replying to Aaron's comment.


I can't see anything in the tiny photo Pierre posted, but if I'm not mistaken M.D.McCarter offered a photo of a car similar to the one Aaron mentioned in the

NMRA book, i.e. a 36 ft, double deck stock car with relatively open sides, owned by Swift I think.


Ed Mines 


ed_mines
 

NKP also had 36 ft. double deck stock cars - 42150 series. See thealphabetroute web site & RMC plan book. A man in the southwest has an excellent photo of one of these and other NKP steam era freight cars.


Ed Mines


ed_mines
 

CB&Q had one of the largest if not the largest fleets of 36ft stock cars after WWII. Plans for these cars plus two multi issue 'how to' articles appeared in Mainline Modeler.


Ed Mines


ed_mines
 

Both MILW & UP had 36 ft stock cars and models of both are available from

Westerfield.


Ed Mines




paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

The SP had hundreds of 36' stockcars into the midtown late fifties these are also available from Westerfield.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"ed_mines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Both MILW & UP had 36 ft stock cars and models of both are available from

Westerfield.


Ed Mines




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