MAINLINE MODELER a different point


Greg Martin
 

Gene writes in part :

Ready-to-Run models and highly accurate resin kits killed any thoughts of developing the Cadre of readers who would contribute worthy articles.

Gene Deimling
______________________________________________________________________
 
All,
 
I have known Bob Hundman for a very long time. And I have what might be a unique relationship with Bob and Mainline Modeler. We are still in touch as I am with some of the "crew" that made up the core of Mainline over the years, Dave Peck, and Bob Zenk, I have lost touch with Jeff but admire his work very much.
 
Bob would say, " the biggest mistake we made was not to make the hobby bigger, but to make the hobby smaller..." and in a way it did, or at least at the time. Gene has pointed this out above and Dennis might agree with that.
 
Bob likely doesn't realize that the fellowship Mainline created (as you can see from the thread here) is actually bigger now than it was then, our small piece of the puzzle has grown, and has had an impact on the hobby and how it addresses the fidelity to detail that we now expect. I have tried to point this out; however, as Tony has so clearly identified, Bob is strong in his convictions, perhaps a bit too much in my most humble opinion.  The puzzle has added many pieces and dimensions or perhaps clans, that was inevitable I suppose, STMFC, BBM, Modern Modelers and the like. But I don't see us as fractured as Bob or others might think. I see as a fellowship, striving for the same goals, checking our egos at the door as I have professed since the very first PROTOTYPE RAILS so many years ago.
 
I have the opportunity and blessings of Bob to perpetuate Mainline Modeler if I so desire, he just reminded me today as we chatted.   ~BUCKET LIST~  Bob just celebrated his 81st birthday yesterday and I celebrate my 61st in just a couple of weeks.  To him I am a kid... To me he is a beacon...  
 
Near the end of Mainline Modeler Bob was of the opinion that the magazine, Tony, Richard and I had discussed this in the past, was more about presentation than content, an opinion both Jeff and I adamantly rejected, but Bob was being Bob.
 
Likely the hardest thing for anyone involved with Mainline wanted to admit was that magazine was dead, but at the time with the decline in authors, content, and the revenues dropping like a stone it was time, but in my most humble opinion not to go away but to evolve, from traditional print media to something else.
 
Mainline gave us something different, modeling content, if not in the modeling precisely then in the form of inspiration for better modeling. A tradition I hold dearly...
 
We talk as if all the good projects are gone, and I say that we haven't scratched the surface, there is so much yet to be done we need to embrace the modeling not yet offered... ONE PLACE, ONE IDEA, ONE FELLOWSHIP... 
 
Print is not done, I have always said "feed your head"  if your library isn't full what is your excuse, the Internet cannot replace a library, but a library might include a different print media like a DVD and a visit to the Internet, but the Internet should never keep you from your modeling.  As my shirt reads, "Why Yes, I have done some modeling"... It will be the theme for PROTOTYPE RAILS 2017, its time has come!
 
I refuse to publicly discuss his business practices as I don't agree with them especially near the end, and I did let him know personally and privately, with all do respect this is not a forum for that.
 
 
Greg Martin
 
"Why Yes, I have done some modeling"...
 
 
 


Douglas Harding
 

Greg, well said and I agree. I believe the hobby has grown and expanded with the help of MM. I know for me the magazine opened my eyes to techniques not seen in other publications, beyond the NGSL Gazette (to which I still subscribe even though I do not model narrow gauge). I learned how to do.

 

And your comments about building a library hit home. Preparing for a move I have just packed my RR library, 70 boxes of books and magazines, plus two four drawer file cabinets. And just tonight I added a 1924 ARA “Codes for LCL Rules” pamphlet. May need to start another box VBG.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


golden1014
 

Couldn't agree with you more, Greg. I don't think print is dead. I don't subscribe to any magazines any more but I did finally get 2016 MRP yesterday, and it's great to curl up with a good magazine at the end of the day.

I think the modeling community could use a great print magazine. As you know I worked on the SCL Modeler for the first ten issues and loved doing it. It was as good as I could make it. I think the MM concept could thrive today but it would take the right guy, with the right vision, and the right energy, to bring in HO, O, P48, NG, N together in an interesting format that applies to everyone in a relevant format. It's not easy. Running an RPM meet is easier.

Back on the subject: MM was one of the reasons I returned to model railroading in the 80s. It was so real, and useful. One of my favorite articles appeared in the late 80s and was on building patterns and casting N&W low side gons. It was fantastic. It was a new and interesting subject, with drawings and history. The article had useful techniques on how to build and finish the car. The whole enchilada. That article changed my modeling life--I became a "freight car guy" and have been one ever since. Many of Greg's articles were a great influence. today I'm blessed to be here with all you fellow thinkers and builders.

Which reminds me...I have the similar Sunshine N&W low side gon built and painted. I need to get off the internet and get that finished.

John Golden
Albersbach, Germany

----------------------------------------


3 MAINLINE MODELER a different point Tue May 24, 2016 11:59 am (PDT) . Posted by: tgregmrtn Gene writes in part :


Ready-to-Run models and highly accurate resin kits killed any thoughts of
developing the Cadre of readers who would contribute worthy articles.

Gene Deimling
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

All,

I have known Bob Hundman for a very long time. And I have what might be a
unique relationship with Bob and Mainline Modeler. We are still in touch as
I am with some of the "crew" that made up the core of Mainline over the
years, Dave Peck, and Bob Zenk, I have lost touch with Jeff but admire his
work very much.

Bob would say, " the biggest mistake we made was not to make the hobby
bigger, but to make the hobby smaller..." and in a way it did, or at least at
the time. Gene has pointed this out above and Dennis might agree with that.

Bob likely doesn't realize that the fellowship Mainline created (as you
can see from the thread here) is actually bigger now than it was then, our
small piece of the puzzle has grown, and has had an impact on the hobby and
how it addresses the fidelity to detail that we now expect. I have tried to
point this out; however, as Tony has so clearly identified, Bob is strong
in his convictions, perhaps a bit too much in my most humble opinion. The
puzzle has added many pieces and dimensions or perhaps clans, that was
inevitable I suppose, STMFC, BBM, Modern Modelers and the like. But I don't see
us as fractured as Bob or others might think. I see as a fellowship,
striving for the same goals, checking our egos at the door as I have professed
since the very first PROTOTYPE RAILS so many years ago.

I have the opportunity and blessings of Bob to perpetuate Mainline Modeler
if I so desire, he just reminded me today as we chatted. ~BUCKET LIST~
Bob just celebrated his 81st birthday yesterday and I celebrate my 61st in
just a couple of weeks. To him I am a kid... To me he is a beacon...

Near the end of Mainline Modeler Bob was of the opinion that the magazine,
Tony, Richard and I had discussed this in the past, was more about
presentation than content, an opinion both Jeff and I adamantly rejected, but Bob
was being Bob.

Likely the hardest thing for anyone involved with Mainline wanted to admit
was that magazine was dead, but at the time with the decline in authors,
content, and the revenues dropping like a stone it was time, but in my most
humble opinion not to go away but to evolve, from traditional print media
to something else.

Mainline gave us something different, modeling content, if not in the
modeling precisely then in the form of inspiration for better modeling. A
tradition I hold dearly...

We talk as if all the good projects are gone, and I say that we haven't
scratched the surface, there is so much yet to be done we need to embrace the
modeling not yet offered... ONE PLACE, ONE IDEA, ONE FELLOWSHIP.. .

Print is not done, I have always said "feed your head" if your library
isn't full what is your excuse, the Internet cannot replace a library, but a
library might include a different print media like a DVD and a visit to
the Internet, but the Internet should never keep you from your modeling. As
my shirt reads, "Why Yes, I have done some modeling" ... It will be the
theme for PROTOTYPE RAILS 2017, its time has come!

I refuse to publicly discuss his business practices as I don't agree with
them especially near the end, and I did let him know personally and
privately, with all do respect this is not a forum for that.


Greg Martin

"Why Yes, I have done some modeling" ...

Thanks!
John

John Golden
Albersbach, DE

St. Louis RPM: 12-13 Aug, 2016 at the Gateway Convention Center
http://icg.home.mindspring.com/rpm/stlrpm.htm


Jared Harper
 



I will contribute an unworthy article.  8>)

Jared Harper

---In STMFC@..., <tgregmrtn@...> wrote :

Gene writes in part :

Ready-to-Run models and highly accurate resin kits killed any thoughts of developing the Cadre of readers who would contribute worthy articles.

Gene Deimling
______________________________________________________________________
 
All,
 
I have known Bob Hundman for a very long time. And I have what might be a unique relationship with Bob and Mainline Modeler. We are still in touch as I am with some of the "crew" that made up the core of Mainline over the years, Dave Peck, and Bob Zenk, I have lost touch with Jeff but admire his work very much.
 
Bob would say, " the biggest mistake we made was not to make the hobby bigger, but to make the hobby smaller..." and in a way it did, or at least at the time. Gene has pointed this out above and Dennis might agree with that.
 
Bob likely doesn't realize that the fellowship Mainline created (as you can see from the thread here) is actually bigger now than it was then, our small piece of the puzzle has grown, and has had an impact on the hobby and how it addresses the fidelity to detail that we now expect. I have tried to point this out; however, as Tony has so clearly identified, Bob is strong in his convictions, perhaps a bit too much in my most humble opinion.  The puzzle has added many pieces and dimensions or perhaps clans, that was inevitable I suppose, STMFC, BBM, Modern Modelers and the like. But I don't see us as fractured as Bob or others might think. I see as a fellowship, striving for the same goals, checking our egos at the door as I have professed since the very first PROTOTYPE RAILS so many years ago.
 
I have the opportunity and blessings of Bob to perpetuate Mainline Modeler if I so desire, he just reminded me today as we chatted.   ~BUCKET LIST~  Bob just celebrated his 81st birthday yesterday and I celebrate my 61st in just a couple of weeks.  To him I am a kid... To me he is a beacon...  
 
Near the end of Mainline Modeler Bob was of the opinion that the magazine, Tony, Richard and I had discussed this in the past, was more about presentation than content, an opinion both Jeff and I adamantly rejected, but Bob was being Bob.
 
Likely the hardest thing for anyone involved with Mainline wanted to admit was that magazine was dead, but at the time with the decline in authors, content, and the revenues dropping like a stone it was time, but in my most humble opinion not to go away but to evolve, from traditional print media to something else.
 
Mainline gave us something different, modeling content, if not in the modeling precisely then in the form of inspiration for better modeling. A tradition I hold dearly...
 
We talk as if all the good projects are gone, and I say that we haven't scratched the surface, there is so much yet to be done we need to embrace the modeling not yet offered... ONE PLACE, ONE IDEA, ONE FELLOWSHIP... 
 
Print is not done, I have always said "feed your head"  if your library isn't full what is your excuse, the Internet cannot replace a library, but a library might include a different print media like a DVD and a visit to the Internet, but the Internet should never keep you from your modeling.  As my shirt reads, "Why Yes, I have done some modeling"... It will be the theme for PROTOTYPE RAILS 2017, its time has come!
 
I refuse to publicly discuss his business practices as I don't agree with them especially near the end, and I did let him know personally and privately, with all do respect this is not a forum for that.
 
 
Greg Martin
 
"Why Yes, I have done some modeling"...
 
 
 


Dave Nelson
 

Maybe. I'm more inclined to think the published had too firm a belief the
answer to everything was scratch building. I think what the market has
shown was the answer to everything (well, many things) was better models -
by whatever means. His scratch building articles were always very
interesting but jeez louise where were the resin kit articles? The plastic
kit articles (think RMJ)? The RPC style articles?



As the years rolled on MM seemed less and less relevant.



As for print, I've purchased every RPC, Ted's books too. But the media
doesn't matter. it's the content that counts (see first paragraph again for
example).



Dave Nelson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] MAINLINE MODELER a different point








Gene writes in part :

Ready-to-Run models and highly accurate resin kits killed any thoughts of
developing the Cadre of readers who would contribute worthy articles.

Gene Deimling
______________________________________________________________________



All,



I have known Bob Hundman for a very long time. And I have what might be a
unique relationship with Bob and Mainline Modeler. We are still in touch as
I am with some of the "crew" that made up the core of Mainline over the
years, Dave Peck, and Bob Zenk, I have lost touch with Jeff but admire his
work very much.



Bob would say, " the biggest mistake we made was not to make the hobby
bigger, but to make the hobby smaller..." and in a way it did, or at least
at the time. Gene has pointed this out above and Dennis might agree with
that.



Bob likely doesn't realize that the fellowship Mainline created (as you can
see from the thread here) is actually bigger now than it was then, our small
piece of the puzzle has grown, and has had an impact on the hobby and how it
addresses the fidelity to detail that we now expect. I have tried to point
this out; however, as Tony has so clearly identified, Bob is strong in his
convictions, perhaps a bit too much in my most humble opinion. The puzzle
has added many pieces and dimensions or perhaps clans, that was inevitable I
suppose, STMFC, BBM, Modern Modelers and the like. But I don't see us as
fractured as Bob or others might think. I see as a fellowship, striving for
the same goals, checking our egos at the door as I have professed since the
very first PROTOTYPE RAILS so many years ago.



I have the opportunity and blessings of Bob to perpetuate Mainline Modeler
if I so desire, he just reminded me today as we chatted. ~BUCKET LIST~
Bob just celebrated his 81st birthday yesterday and I celebrate my 61st in
just a couple of weeks. To him I am a kid... To me he is a beacon...



Near the end of Mainline Modeler Bob was of the opinion that the magazine,
Tony, Richard and I had discussed this in the past, was more about
presentation than content, an opinion both Jeff and I adamantly rejected,
but Bob was being Bob.



Likely the hardest thing for anyone involved with Mainline wanted to admit
was that magazine was dead, but at the time with the decline in authors,
content, and the revenues dropping like a stone it was time, but in my most
humble opinion not to go away but to evolve, from traditional print media to
something else.



Mainline gave us something different, modeling content, if not in the
modeling precisely then in the form of inspiration for better modeling. A
tradition I hold dearly...



We talk as if all the good projects are gone, and I say that we haven't
scratched the surface, there is so much yet to be done we need to embrace
the modeling not yet offered... ONE PLACE, ONE IDEA, ONE FELLOWSHIP...



Print is not done, I have always said "feed your head" if your library
isn't full what is your excuse, the Internet cannot replace a library, but a
library might include a different print media like a DVD and a visit to the
Internet, but the Internet should never keep you from your modeling. As my
shirt reads, "Why Yes, I have done some modeling"... It will be the theme
for PROTOTYPE RAILS 2017, its time has come!



I refuse to publicly discuss his business practices as I don't agree with
them especially near the end, and I did let him know personally and
privately, with all do respect this is not a forum for that.





Greg Martin



"Why Yes, I have done some modeling"...


Schuyler Larrabee
 

It didn't start that way, Dave. Bob Zenk's articles in the first few
issues, on rebuilding a commercial diesel model (I don't remember for sure
the locomotive - a PA? - but I seem to think it was SP) was a bash job, and
was spectacular. I still think about it. All my complete set of MM are in
boxes in the basement waiting for me to finish, already, the renovation of
the room



I remember one article which he published "Part 1" but there was never a
"Part 2." I don't recall what it was but I was very interested in it.



But later on, when I had the sense that Bob was scratchbuilding some things
just so he'd have an article to publish, it was all scratchbuilding, or so
it felt.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 3:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] MAINLINE MODELER a different point





Maybe. I'm more inclined to think the published had too firm a belief the
answer to everything was scratch building. I think what the market has
shown was the answer to everything (well, many things) was better models -
by whatever means. His scratch building articles were always very
interesting but jeez louise where were the resin kit articles? The plastic
kit articles (think RMJ)? The RPC style articles?

As the years rolled on MM seemed less and less relevant.

As for print, I've purchased every RPC, Ted's books too. But the media
doesn't matter. it's the content that counts (see first paragraph again for
example).

Dave Nelson

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] MAINLINE MODELER a different point

Gene writes in part :

Ready-to-Run models and highly accurate resin kits killed any thoughts of
developing the Cadre of readers who would contribute worthy articles.

Gene Deimling
__________________________________________________________

All,

I have known Bob Hundman for a very long time. And I have what might be a
unique relationship with Bob and Mainline Modeler. We are still in touch as
I am with some of the "crew" that made up the core of Mainline over the
years, Dave Peck, and Bob Zenk, I have lost touch with Jeff but admire his
work very much.

Bob would say, " the biggest mistake we made was not to make the hobby
bigger, but to make the hobby smaller..." and in a way it did, or at least
at the time. Gene has pointed this out above and Dennis might agree with
that.

Bob likely doesn't realize that the fellowship Mainline created (as you can
see from the thread here) is actually bigger now than it was then, our small
piece of the puzzle has grown, and has had an impact on the hobby and how it
addresses the fidelity to detail that we now expect. I have tried to point
this out; however, as Tony has so clearly identified, Bob is strong in his
convictions, perhaps a bit too much in my most humble opinion. The puzzle
has added many pieces and dimensions or perhaps clans, that was inevitable I
suppose, STMFC, BBM, Modern Modelers and the like. But I don't see us as
fractured as Bob or others might think. I see as a fellowship, striving for
the same goals, checking our egos at the door as I have professed since the
very first PROTOTYPE RAILS so many years ago.

I have the opportunity and blessings of Bob to perpetuate Mainline Modeler
if I so desire, he just reminded me today as we chatted. ~BUCKET LIST~
Bob just celebrated his 81st birthday yesterday and I celebrate my 61st in
just a couple of weeks. To him I am a kid... To me he is a beacon...

Near the end of Mainline Modeler Bob was of the opinion that the magazine,
Tony, Richard and I had discussed this in the past, was more about
presentation than content, an opinion both Jeff and I adamantly rejected,
but Bob was being Bob.

Likely the hardest thing for anyone involved with Mainline wanted to admit
was that magazine was dead, but at the time with the decline in authors,
content, and the revenues dropping like a stone it was time, but in my most
humble opinion not to go away but to evolve, from traditional print media to
something else.

Mainline gave us something different, modeling content, if not in the
modeling precisely then in the form of inspiration for better modeling. A
tradition I hold dearly...

We talk as if all the good projects are gone, and I say that we haven't
scratched the surface, there is so much yet to be done we need to embrace
the modeling not yet offered... ONE PLACE, ONE IDEA, ONE FELLOWSHIP...

Print is not done, I have always said "feed your head" if your library
isn't full what is your excuse, the Internet cannot replace a library, but a
library might include a different print media like a DVD and a visit to the
Internet, but the Internet should never keep you from your modeling. As my
shirt reads, "Why Yes, I have done some modeling"... It will be the theme
for PROTOTYPE RAILS 2017, its time has come!

I refuse to publicly discuss his business practices as I don't agree with
them especially near the end, and I did let him know personally and
privately, with all do respect this is not a forum for that.

Greg Martin

"Why Yes, I have done some modeling"...


Scott H. Haycock
 


 

Schuyler wrote:

I remember one article which he published "Part 1" but there was never a
"Part 2." I don't recall what it was but I was very interested in it.


He did a part one of a deck truss bridge (Southern Ry, I believe), But no conclusion article. I wonder if this may have been in the "lost" issue?


Scott Haycock 



Greg Martin
 

Nelson and Schuyler,
 
 
Just to remind Schuyler the charter issue was the beginning of Bob Zenk's SP PA article where by he took a piece of Chicken Poop and created a lovely Chicken Soup! The work stands up to anyone's work even today BECAUSE Athearn's nose is much closer than other offerings in styrene. 
 
Scratch building was a passion of Bob's and I can understand the passion as my own brother was of the same clan, he felt that a boxcar was just, in the smallest is common denominator, just that, a box. If you recall my brother Ed Martin scratch built not one but three "Q" stock cars and presented one. Bob was not to be out done and re-created the same car in a different technique.  My brother liked the "lark" and would jump scale and modeling O Scale often or Proto 48 and has several projects in that scale.
 
I believe that Bob's passion for styrene scratch building came directly from his relationship with the late Al Armitage, a long time styrene scratch builder, a tool and die man for Revell and draftsman, left handed to boot. (Right in Schuyler's league of champions) Those that know how to tell will find it in his drawings. Bob tried desperately to get Al to model a project for Mainline, but Al told him that he was just not interested  at his age, and I hear the same from Bob now... I hope I can be like Richard Hendrickson and continue to model until I have to take the mail train home...
 
Dave Nelson, I am not sure how far back you go with your collection of Mainline, perhaps not as far, but the further you travel the more you engage.  The articles that most impressed me were the articles that Mont Switzer would present, he became a mentor to both my brother and myself, truly inspiring... He modeled at "my level", attainable excellence... 
 
Let us not forget the exquisite articles presented by Bob Chapman, his mastery of pen, his accomplished eye for photography and his knowledge through research of subject and his close calculation all lent itself to a very exciting article even if you hated the C&O or L&N or the PRR. Truly amazing another comrade and mentor, these you could truly challenge yourself with.
 
The volumes of prototype articles that found their way into the pages are outstanding, like Martin Lofton's article on the PRR F30a and the other works presented by countless authors...
 
To focus on Bob and not look into the heart of Mainline is a pity.
 
Again, let me remind you all that in Bob's own words he believed that Mainline made this fellowship smaller and let me remind you that in my opinion some may say we may be small but we are mighty...
 
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message Schuyler Larrabee writes:

It didn't start that way, Dave. Bob Zenk's articles in the first few
issues, on rebuilding a commercial diesel model (I don't remember for sure
the locomotive - a PA? - but I seem to think it was SP) was a bash job, and
was spectacular. I still think about it. All my complete set of MM are in
boxes in the basement waiting for me to finish, already, the renovation of
the room

I remember one article which he published "Part 1" but there was never a
"Part 2." I don't recall what it was but I was very interested in it.

But later on, when I had the sense that Bob was scratchbuilding some things
just so he'd have an article to publish, it was all scratchbuilding, or so
it felt.

Schuyler


Bill Decker
 

Greg,

Thank you for your recollections--AND contributions!--on the foundation and ultimate influence of Mainline Modeler.  Bob Hundman truly accomplished what he set out to do--provide a forum for high quality modeling and information for standard gauge, mainline modelers.  Before MM, the narrow gauge folk "seemed" to have a lock on quality modeling.  MM helped us stand up and say, yes, we, too, can do high quality, prototype-based modeling.

Our hobby is far richer today because of Bob H's publishing efforts (warts and all).  MM provided a forum for modelers and rail historians to push the frontiers for standard gauge.  It provided an entre for several on this list to the development folk for manufacturers large and small to raise the bar toward prototype modeling.  Those well-detailed (and occasionally actually fairly accurate) mass-produced, ready to roll (actually ready to complete...) steam era freight cars now in the market place.  

In today's world, this list continues that process as do the many individual rail historical societies, a number of which now produce and market steam era freight cars for our use.  The market demand was identified through Bob H's efforts with MM.

Bill Decker


Dave Nelson
 

Other than May 1990 I have them all.  I entirely agree with your comment below.  My point was as time rolled along the hobby changed and the magazine didn’t keep up.  I asked him personally why he didn’t allow  his very fine work to be used to make masters for resin casting and was told, bluntly, NOBODY ever builds resin kits. I said I do and he completely dismissed my answer.  I certainly would have purchased resin kits of his stuff.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 1:07 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MAINLINE MODELER a different point

 

Dave Nelson, I am not sure how far back you go with your collection of Mainline, perhaps not as far, but the further you travel the more you engage. 

 

 

Greg Martin