Beer Reefers for Everyone


pennsylvania1954
 

Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL



Gary Roe
 

Here, here!

I'll buy the second round to that suggestion.

gary roe
quincy, illinois



From: "stevehprr@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 9:55 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone

 
Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL




Armand Premo
 

Sunshine produced a couple of versions of the SLRX-.Very nice looking models.Armand Premo-------------------------------------------

On Thu, 6/2/16, stevehprr@cox.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 2, 2016, 10:55 AM


 









Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence
in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX
insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St.
Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling
Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is
unnecessary, but everyone can use one
of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an
impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL











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riverman_vt@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <stevehprr@...> wrote :

Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL



   What????   You mean you don;t like the Train-Miniature versions Steve?????  LOL


Cordially, Don Valentine


Dave Nelson
 

I agree but here’s a question about concentration on the receiving side: Did the U.S. military ship beer from U.S. ports to bases overseas? If yes one might reasonably conclude that in WWII one might see a considerable concentration of “beer reefers” headed towards embarkation ports.



Dave Nelson

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone





Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brad Smith
 

The answer is "Yes."  Much of the beer was labled "Propeller Beer."
 
Brad Smith
 

In a message dated 6/2/2016 3:05:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

I agree but here’s a question about concentration on the receiving side: Did the U.S. military ship beer from U.S. ports to bases overseas? If yes one might reasonably conclude that in WWII one might see a considerable concentration of “beer reefers” headed towards embarkation ports.

Dave Nelson

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone

Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bruce Smith
 

Interestingly, a sort of “mini-prohibition” occurred during WWI when grain was diverted to other purposes.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jun 2, 2016, at 3:05 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

I agree but here’s a question about concentration on the receiving side: Did the U.S. military ship beer from U.S. ports to bases overseas?  If yes one might reasonably conclude that in WWII one might see a considerable concentration of “beer reefers” headed towards embarkation ports.



Dave Nelson

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone





Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


John Barry
 

Deve,

Yes they did and documentation of some of those shipments still exists in the archives.  I saw reference to one such shipment last week.

John
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone

 
I agree but here’s a question about concentration on the receiving side: Did the U.S. military ship beer from U.S. ports to bases overseas? If yes one might reasonably conclude that in WWII one might see a considerable concentration of “beer reefers” headed towards embarkation ports.

Dave Nelson

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone

Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL






caboose9792 <caboose9792@...>
 

I suspect "everyone" is a bit missleading, another bit of reserch for folks particularly in the south. Prohibition didn't end in some areas until long after this group's cutoff so knowing what areas could or could not have the traffic is another subject to research. 


Mark Rickert - living in a county that is stil "dry"



Powered by Cricket Wireless.


-------- Original message --------
From: "stevehprr@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 06/02/2016 9:55 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone

 

Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL



Brad Smith
 

I bet the beer cars passed THRU your county. 

Brad Smith 

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:40 AM, caboose9792 caboose9792@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I suspect "everyone" is a bit missleading, another bit of reserch for folks particularly in the south. Prohibition didn't end in some areas until long after this group's cutoff so knowing what areas could or could not have the traffic is another subject to research. 


Mark Rickert - living in a county that is stil "dry"



Powered by Cricket Wireless.


-------- Original message --------
From: "stevehprr@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 06/02/2016 9:55 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone

 

Since cars which are conspicuous by their absence in our modeling world have been mentioned: DSDX and SLRX insulated boxcars for hauling beer from Milwaukee or St. Louis are sorely needed. Unless someone is modeling Milwaukee or St. Louis, obtaining a fleet of either is unnecessary, but everyone can use one of each no matter what part of the country is modeled.

A resin caster can make an impact here.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL



Tony Thompson
 

Mark Rickert wrote:

 
I suspect "everyone" is a bit missleading, another bit of reserch for folks particularly in the south. Prohibition didn't end in some areas until long after this group's cutoff so knowing what areas could or could not have the traffic is another subject to research. 

    Mark is right. Prohibition was repealed as a national law, but states were permitted to continue restrictive laws for that state, including county option laws,

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Jeffrey White
 

Prohibition lives and not just in the South.

Illinois permitted every political subdivision (county, township, city, ward and precinct) to decide if they were going to be wet or dry after the repeal of prohibition. The law permitted that decision to be made either by a vote of the elected representatives (i.e. county board, city council) or by referendum. The law also states that once that decision was made, it can only be changed by the same method it was made. In other words, if the city council or county board voted to go wet, then the city council or county board could return toe political subdivision to dry. And if the wet/dry decision was made by referendum, then it can only be changed by referendum.

This created a patchwork of wet/dry areas in Illinois that still exists. During the time period we cover, much of rural Illinois was dry.

Of course alcoholic beverages still passed through the dry areas and often there was a county that was dry but one or more municipalities in the county were wet.

Anheuser Busch products were brewed only in St Louis until 1951 when they opened a brewery in Newark, NJ. This later expanded to 9 breweries in various parts of the country but much of that expansion happened after the cutoff date of this list.

Busch began pasteurizing their beer in the early 1870s and shipped it nationwide.

The Anheuser Busch website says this about the company owned cars:

http://www.anheuser-busch.com/index.php/our-heritage/history/history-of-innovation/

"Refrigerated Railcars- Adolphus expanded the use of refrigerated railcars, which were first introduced at the 1876 Centennial Exhibition in Philadelphia. By 1877, Adolphus was using 40 cars built by the Tiffany Refrigerator Car Company of Chicago. In 1878, Adolphus and three other businessmen established the St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co., which later provided Anheuser-Busch with a fleet of 850 refrigerator cars to transport beer throughout the nation.

Rail-side Ice Houses- Ice was another variable that Adolphus had to manage in the shipment of his beer to distant markets. Ice melts, so in order to keep the refrigerated railcars cold, fresh supplies needed to be stored so that the cars could be repacked. To make sure the company had an ample supply of fresh ice, Anheuser-Busch built a series of ice houses and storage depots. When the railcars pulled in after traveling a distance, they could stop and reload with fresh ice."

I wasn't aware that the company built it's own ice houses. I wonder where they were located and how long they lasted?

Jeff White

Alma, IL


John Barry
 

And those county options were the source of many establishments such as Friendship House Lounge on the Walton County Line, now repaced by Captain Dave's on the Gulf.  https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3795191,-86.3975861,3a,75y,169.47h,89.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHWItdJp2xAiFMhl1SpleBg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1  

Unfortunately not served by the L&N carrying STMFC east and west at the north end of the county.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Beer Reefers for Everyone

 
Mark Rickert wrote:

 
I suspect "everyone" is a bit missleading, another bit of reserch for folks particularly in the south. Prohibition didn't end in some areas until long after this group's cutoff so knowing what areas could or could not have the traffic is another subject to research. 

    Mark is right. Prohibition was repealed as a national law, but states were permitted to continue restrictive laws for that state, including county option laws,

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Tom Vanwormer
 

The ice houses were handed to Armour Meatpacking in the 1880s.
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Jeffrey White jrwhite@... [STMFC] wrote:

Prohibition lives and not just in the South.

Illinois permitted every political subdivision (county, township, city, 
ward and precinct) to decide if they were going to be wet or dry after 
the repeal of prohibition.  The law permitted that decision to be made 
either by a vote of the elected representatives (i.e. county board, city 
council) or by referendum.  The law also states that once that decision 
was made, it can only be changed by the same method it was made.  In 
other words, if the city council or county board voted to go wet, then 
the city council or county board could return toe political subdivision 
to dry.  And if the wet/dry decision was made by referendum, then it can 
only be changed by referendum.

This created a patchwork of wet/dry areas in Illinois that still exists. 
During the time period we cover, much of rural Illinois was dry.

Of course alcoholic beverages still passed through the dry areas and 
often there was a county that was dry but one or more municipalities in 
the county were wet.

Anheuser Busch products were brewed only in St Louis until 1951 when 
they opened a brewery in Newark, NJ.  This later expanded to 9 breweries 
in various parts of the country but much of that expansion happened 
after the cutoff date of this list.

Busch began pasteurizing their beer in the early 1870s and shipped it 
nationwide.

The Anheuser Busch website says this about the company owned cars:

http://www.anheuser-busch.com/index.php/our-heritage/history/history-of-innovation/

"Refrigerated Railcars- Adolphus expanded the use of refrigerated 
railcars, which were first introduced at the 1876 Centennial Exhibition 
in Philadelphia. By 1877, Adolphus was using 40 cars built by the 
Tiffany Refrigerator Car Company of Chicago. In 1878, Adolphus and three 
other businessmen established the St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co., which 
later provided Anheuser-Busch with a fleet of 850 refrigerator cars to 
transport beer throughout the nation.

Rail-side Ice Houses- Ice was another variable that Adolphus had to 
manage in the shipment of his beer to distant markets. Ice melts, so in 
order to keep the refrigerated railcars cold, fresh supplies needed to 
be stored so that the cars could be repacked. To make sure the company 
had an ample supply of fresh ice, Anheuser-Busch built a series of ice 
houses and storage depots. When the railcars pulled in after traveling a 
distance, they could stop and reload with fresh ice."

I wasn't aware that the company built it's own ice houses.  I wonder 
where they were located and how long they lasted?

Jeff White

Alma, IL




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Tony Thompson
 

The Anheuser Busch website says this about the company owned cars:

http://www.anheuser-busch.com/index.php/our-heritage/history/history-of-innovation/

"Refrigerated Railcars- Adolphus expanded the use of refrigerated
railcars, which were first introduced at the 1876 Centennial Exhibition
in Philadelphia. By 1877, Adolphus was using 40 cars built by the
Tiffany Refrigerator Car Company of Chicago. In 1878, Adolphus and three
other businessmen established the St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co., which
later provided Anheuser-Busch with a fleet of 850 refrigerator cars to
transport beer throughout the nation.
Far be it from me to contradict Anheuser Busch's own website, but this sounds like the usual hokum widely copied about early refrigerator cars. In fact, refrigerated cargoes were being carried before the Civil War, and in 1872 reefer traffic was established even from California eastward. The real mover and shaker in early refrigerator cars was Gustavus Swift. The Swift-Chase reefer design of 1878 was among the first successful cars, and by the early 1880s Swift dominated the shipment of meat in reefers. But Philip Armour liked the idea too, and soon overtook Swift and the other meat packers, All of them either built or commissioned local ice houses for their cargoes. Armour was aggressive in taking over these businesses, and by 1890 was by far the biggest reefer operator, for both meat and produce, with a great network of ice houses and car shops, and a fleet of thousands of cars. In the 19th century, I doubt beer shipments were more than a fraction of that.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Brad Smith
 

Beer was shipped from New Jersey in Jersey Central insulated boxcars owned by North American and carrying the NJDX reporting marks.  I believe this was the Rhinegold brewery.
 
Brad Smith


CJ Riley
 

A town near Tacoma just repealed probibition in the past few months by public vote.


Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device


David North
 

At one golf club in Kansas City golfers would play a round of golf, then cross the road to go to the club house for a beer.

That road happened to be the state line.

The golf course was in Missouri which was dry – the club house was in Kansas which was wet.

(I think I have that the right way around).

I was told this during the 1998 Kansas City NMRA Convention.

Cheers

Dave


William Hirt
 

Dave,

Flip the states and you would be correct. The golf course is on the Kansas side. Kansas still has somewhat restrictive liquor laws. Passenger trains were subject to these restrictions when traveling through Kansas. Schlitz used to have a brewery on the Missouri side just south of downtown - one of several breweries on the Missouri side of the line. And of course M K Goetz Brewing (later Pearl Brewing) was up the river in St Joseph. I've only seen URTX cars in Goetz Brewery photographs. The brewery was served by the CGW. My dad used to visit the brewery because he worked for Continental Can which supplied cans for the brewery's product (the most famous of which was Country Club Malt Liquor).

Bill Hirt


On 6/3/2016 10:23 PM, 'David North' david.north@... [STMFC] wrote:

At one golf club in Kansas City golfers would play a round of golf, then cross the road to go to the club house for a beer.

That road happened to be the state line.

The golf course was in Missouri which was dry � the club house was in Kansas which was wet.

(I think I have that the right way around).

I was told this during the 1998 Kansas City NMRA Convention.

Cheers

Dave



skibbs4
 

The topic of freight car fleets used to move beer would be a great clinic topic for RPM Chicagoland if anyone has some extra time and the inclination to pull it all together! Sounds like there is some knowledge of the St. Louis and Milwaukee fleets here. I can help with photos of the DSDX cars...

Any takers?? <grin>

Mike Skibbe
www.rpmconference.com

On Jun 3, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Jeffrey White jrwhite@midwest.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Prohibition lives and not just in the South.

Illinois permitted every political subdivision (county, township, city,
ward and precinct) to decide if they were going to be wet or dry after
the repeal of prohibition. The law permitted that decision to be made
either by a vote of the elected representatives (i.e. county board, city
council) or by referendum. The law also states that once that decision
was made, it can only be changed by the same method it was made. In
other words, if the city council or county board voted to go wet, then
the city council or county board could return toe political subdivision
to dry. And if the wet/dry decision was made by referendum, then it can
only be changed by referendum.

This created a patchwork of wet/dry areas in Illinois that still exists.
During the time period we cover, much of rural Illinois was dry.

Of course alcoholic beverages still passed through the dry areas and
often there was a county that was dry but one or more municipalities in
the county were wet.

Anheuser Busch products were brewed only in St Louis until 1951 when
they opened a brewery in Newark, NJ. This later expanded to 9 breweries
in various parts of the country but much of that expansion happened
after the cutoff date of this list.

Busch began pasteurizing their beer in the early 1870s and shipped it
nationwide.

The Anheuser Busch website says this about the company owned cars:

http://www.anheuser-busch.com/index.php/our-heritage/history/history-of-innovation/

"Refrigerated Railcars- Adolphus expanded the use of refrigerated
railcars, which were first introduced at the 1876 Centennial Exhibition
in Philadelphia. By 1877, Adolphus was using 40 cars built by the
Tiffany Refrigerator Car Company of Chicago. In 1878, Adolphus and three
other businessmen established the St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co., which
later provided Anheuser-Busch with a fleet of 850 refrigerator cars to
transport beer throughout the nation.

Rail-side Ice Houses- Ice was another variable that Adolphus had to
manage in the shipment of his beer to distant markets. Ice melts, so in
order to keep the refrigerated railcars cold, fresh supplies needed to
be stored so that the cars could be repacked. To make sure the company
had an ample supply of fresh ice, Anheuser-Busch built a series of ice
houses and storage depots. When the railcars pulled in after traveling a
distance, they could stop and reload with fresh ice."

I wasn't aware that the company built it's own ice houses. I wonder
where they were located and how long they lasted?

Jeff White

Alma, IL




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