more on asphalt cars


Tony Thompson
 

I have written a second post on asphalt tank cars, including additional model views. If you're interested, it can be found at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2016/09/asphalt-tank-cars-part-2.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,

I came across this image described as "UTLX 56816 unloading Road Tar (Mid 1950's) "

http://vernwigfield.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=404420

I don't know the subtlety of difference between tar and asphalt, but there may be sufficient similarity to make this on topic.

Looks to be a scene illustrating unloading the car into a tanker truck.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: "Era Freight Car List Steam" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 6:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars


I have written a second post on asphalt tank cars, including additional model views. If you're interested, it can be found at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2016/09/asphalt-tank-cars-part-2.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







------------------------------------
Posted by: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links




mwbauers
 

Asphalt is tar with crushed stones embedded in it. I don’t think its at all common to ship a tank car with a load of tar bonded stone…...

The cars contain tar destined to become asphalt once its mixed for the application at the road project.

I’m betting that calling the contents asphalt is just common slang for the load.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:24 AM, 'Claus Schlund HGM'  wrote:

I don't know the subtlety of difference between tar and asphalt, but there may be sufficient similarity to make this on topic.

Looks to be a scene illustrating unloading the car into a tanker truck.


Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
 

While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:24 AM, 'Claus Schlund HGM' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi List Members,

I came across this image described as "UTLX 56816 unloading Road Tar (Mid 1950's) "

http://vernwigfield.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=404420

I don't know the subtlety of difference between tar and asphalt, but there may be sufficient similarity to make this on topic.

Looks to be a scene illustrating unloading the car into a tanker truck.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: "Era Freight Car List Steam" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 6:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars

>I have written a second post on asphalt tank cars, including additional model views. If you're interested, it can be found at this
>link:
>
> http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2016/09/asphalt-tank-cars-part-2.html
>
> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
> 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
> (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
> Publishers of books on railroad history
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>




--
Jeff Shultz
Error: Pithy Saying Generator not installed


Tony Thompson
 

Jeff Shultz wrote:

 
While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:

     The asphalt/aggregate compound used for paving is called "asphalt concrete" in the trade. The asphalt binder may be quite variable depending on the source, and sometimes is similar to "road tar" or "road oil," sometimes much different. Road oil is sometimes the term used for oil sprayed to keep down dust on dirt and gravel roads, but I have seen it used to mean the binder in asphalt concrete. Obviously as modelers we don't need to know the exact terminology, but do need to know how the material was handled.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Clark Propst
 

Gee, no one reads Model Railroad Planning? I used that photo and a couple others to illustrate a point a few years ago. The reason Vern took that and another photo was because he was the agent there and the guy had fallen off the tank car earlier.
 
I would very much like to model one of those boiler/pump trailers. I don’t know where to even start looking for info...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


richramik@...
 

As a youngster, I remember the dirt roads being "oiled"  then a fine layer of crushed stone/rock and then rolled.  Eventually, this was the base for the roads being paved.  Many of the roads in my area (Randolph, New Jersey) were like this in the mid- to late 50's.  Some were still this way into the early 60's.  I had forgotten about this until this thread appeared.

The question would be how to represent this on a layout?
 
 

On 09/16/16, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
 

Jeff Shultz wrote:

 
While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:

     The asphalt/aggregate compound used for paving is called "asphalt concrete" in the trade. The asphalt binder may be quite variable depending on the source, and sometimes is similar to "road tar" or "road oil," sometimes much different. Road oil is sometimes the term used for oil sprayed to keep down dust on dirt and gravel roads, but I have seen it used to mean the binder in asphalt concrete. Obviously as modelers we don't need to know the exact terminology, but do need to know how the material was handled.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Tony Thompson
 

Mike Bauers wrote:

 

Asphalt is tar with crushed stones embedded in it. I don’t think its at all common to ship a tank car with a load of tar bonded stone…...

The cars contain tar destined to become asphalt once its mixed for the application at the road project.

I’m betting that calling the contents asphalt is just common slang for the load.

    Better check into this more extensively, Mike. The term "asphalt" definitely refers to the petroleum binder in paving. It is only "civilian" slang to call the paving "asphalt," and professionals call it "asphalt concrete" when it has aggregate in it. Tar is NOT asphalt, it is a chemically different material -- you could look it up. You can make roads with tar instead of asphalt, and once that was common, but tar softens much more with temperature than asphalt, thus not a great road on a hot day.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






SUVCWORR@...
 

Not to muddy the waters more but what is the difference between asphalt concrete and asphaltum?   Are they the same or is asphaltum the recycled asphalt concrete which is stripped from the road, heated, additonal binder added and then laid down again?   

Obligatory freight car -- the additional binder is delivered in tank cars and transferred to tank trucks by at least one contractor nearby.

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 10:18 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars



Mike Bauers wrote:

 
Asphalt is tar with crushed stones embedded in it. I don’t think its at all common to ship a tank car with a load of tar bonded stone…...
The cars contain tar destined to become asphalt once its mixed for the application at the road project.

I’m betting that calling the contents asphalt is just common slang for the load.

    Better check into this more extensively, Mike. The term "asphalt" definitely refers to the petroleum binder in paving. It is only "civilian" slang to call the paving "asphalt," and professionals call it "asphalt concrete" when it has aggregate in it. Tar is NOT asphalt, it is a chemically different material -- you could look it up. You can make roads with tar instead of asphalt, and once that was common, but tar softens much more with temperature than asphalt, thus not a great road on a hot day.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Tony Thompson
 

Rich Orr wrote:

 

Not to muddy the waters more but what is the difference between asphalt concrete and asphaltum?   Are they the same or is asphaltum the recycled asphalt concrete which is stripped from the road, heated, additonal binder added and then laid down again?   


     According to several web sources, asphaltum is merely the old name for asphalt. It was in use before the 20th century.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Tim O'Connor
 


Wasn't "asphaltum" also used sometimes to describe "car cement" (?) or other
heavy roof or rustproofing compounds?

I always think of the gooey stuff you slosh onto the roof of buildings, or on
driveways, when I think of the coatings applied to freight car roofs.

Tim O'Connor





Rich Orr wrote:

Not to muddy the waters more but what is the difference between asphalt concrete and asphaltum?   Are they the same or is asphaltum the recycled asphalt concrete which is stripped from the road, heated, additonal binder added and then laid down again?   

     According to several web sources, asphaltum is merely the old name for asphalt. It was in use before the 20th century.

Tony Thompson


Jeffrey White
 

The rural county I live in here in South Central Illinois still oils and chips many roads annually as do most of the small municipalities.

The oil is dispensed from a truck that looks very much like the one in the photograph.  The oil truck is followed by a dump truck full of fine gravel which is spread on the fresh oil.  To save multiple trips to the county road and highway department (it might be 20 or more miles back to the road and highway yard), oil is brought to the spreader truck in tank type semi trailers and transferred into the spreader truck.   It's all done by truck now, but I would bet that it came in on tank cars during the era we discuss here.  There is no spur into the Marion County Road and Highway Department now, but it's less then a block from the old B&O line that ran through the county seat.

A town I model, Centralia, IL did have a spur that served the city public works yard.  The next time I am down at the museum I will go through their archives and see if I can find any photographs of road oil being unloaded there.  I'll share any photos I can find.

Jeff White

Alma IL


On 9/16/2016 9:18 PM, richramik@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
As a youngster, I remember the dirt roads being "oiled"  then a fine layer of crushed stone/rock and then rolled.  Eventually, this was the base for the roads being paved.  Many of the roads in my area (Randolph, New Jersey) were like this in the mid- to late 50's.  Some were still this way into the early 60's.  I had forgotten about this until this thread appeared.

The question would be how to represent this on a layout?
 
 
On 09/16/16, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
 
Jeff Shultz wrote:

 
While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:

     The asphalt/aggregate compound used for paving is called "asphalt concrete" in the trade. The asphalt binder may be quite variable depending on the source, and sometimes is similar to "road tar" or "road oil," sometimes much different. Road oil is sometimes the term used for oil sprayed to keep down dust on dirt and gravel roads, but I have seen it used to mean the binder in asphalt concrete. Obviously as modelers we don't need to know the exact terminology, but do need to know how the material was handled.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Dave Nelson
 

Asphalt is also known as pitch, tar, and bitumen.  Asphalt to road surfaces is the same as cement is to (concrete) sidewalks – an important part of the whole aggregate. 

 

Thinking of it as a tar rather than a road surface also makes it easier to understand how tank cars of asphalt needed to be heated to unload them, as well as   to understand how “asphaltum paint” was applied to freight car parts – just heat up that tar until it ruins like paint and you are good to go.  A stinkin job for sure.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars

 



Asphalt is tar with crushed stones embedded in it. I don’t think its at all common to ship a tank car with a load of tar bonded stone…...

 

The cars contain tar destined to become asphalt once its mixed for the application at the road project.

 

I’m betting that calling the contents asphalt is just common slang for the load.

 

Best to ya,

Mike Bauers

Milwaukee, Wi