M&StL LT 70001 GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car
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Matt here is a photo and diagram of MSTL sand hopper 70003. Roger is not a member of this group, and I don’t think Gene every transferred when the move was made to groups.io
Doug Harding https://www.facebook.com/douglas.harding.3156/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8X8Yb8NEAZqbZjHT5z0sA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matt Mihalo
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2022 12:17 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] M&StL LT 70001 GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car
Roger & Gene, do you have any source proving that 70003 came from the Copper Range? The complete Copper Range roster doesn't show any of their rock cars being sold to the M&STL, all of the steel sided cars except 3 were kept until 1973, and the other 3 were scrapped before then. It looks very much like a Calumet & Hecla, ex Mineral Range AC&F steel sided rock cars built in 1913 and 1916. Calumet & Hecla bought around 100 of these in the 20s, and the Mineral Range kept the other 100. Would you happen to have a diagram of this car? 
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Matt Mihalo
Roger & Gene, do you have any source proving that 70003 came from the Copper Range? The complete Copper Range roster doesn't show any of their rock cars being sold to the M&STL, all of the steel sided cars except 3 were kept until 1973, and the other 3 were scrapped before then. It looks very much like a Calumet & Hecla, ex Mineral Range AC&F steel sided rock cars built in 1913 and 1916. Calumet & Hecla bought around 100 of these in the 20s, and the Mineral Range kept the other 100. Would you happen to have a diagram of this car?
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-BW-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-gFszBTC |
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Gene Green <genegreen1942@...>
In the continuing saga of the "Dry-Flo" tank cars rebuilt into covered hopperish things, Roger and I are now assuming the lease ended in November 1939. The lease began November 13, 1936. The lease paperwork said the M&StL was taking two cars but all evidence, including ORER entries, suggests they only took one. We think it was for hauling cement but more research is needed. It is clear from the AFE that GATX 34000 became M&StL 70001. Thanks to those who checked ORERs. Thanks, too, for the correction from Dri-Flow to Dry-Flo. The link submitted showed photos that also appeared in the 1937 CBCyc. General American used the AAR mechanical designation LO while the M&StL, for whatever reason, used LT. M&StL LO 70003 was the first of the M&StL's sand cars. It was built by General American from a used ore car from the Copper Range RR in Michigan. The Copper Range term was "rock car." The next few sand cars built by General American from rock cars had the roof raised some to increase the capacity. Nonetheless, M&StL 70003 was the prototype. Roger Ward emailed General American using the email address found in a railroad car part guide published annually. Roger used the 2016 issue. No response from General American. Roger Ward and Gene Green Out in the Badlands of New Mexico |
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Jack Mullen
"Dry-Flo" (correct spelling with a y, a hyphen, and no w) was a GATC trade name applied to various types of covered hoppers over the years. The first use that I'm aware of was in 1932, for converted tank cars with several hatches on the tank centerline and a central discharge hopper fed by drag conveyors.I think the first was GATX 33000, and I believe GATX 34000 was similar.
Just before the cutoff for this list, around 1959, GATC came out with a 3500 cuft Dry-Flo which had a carbody similar to the Airslide cars GATC was building concurrently. I believe these Dry-Flo cars had either pressure discharge or gravity/pressure hoppers. AFAIK GATC did not use the Dry-Flo designation for plain gravity discharge covered hoppers. Jack Mullen |
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Were the Dry Flow tank cars listed as tank cars, or special "L" cars (e.g. LO - the familiar "covered hopper") I have seen other pictures of similar "tank car" bodies on cars designed to carry dry cargo. Tim O'Connor not on Jan 1940 |
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SUVCWORR@...
not on Jan 1940
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Rich Orr -----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] To: Era Freight Car List Steam Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2016 2:06 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] M&StL LT 70001 GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car
This car number is not listed in the April 1940 ORER. There is a covered hopper number series starting with 70003 (odd numbers only).
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
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Aha! A Google search for “Dryflow tank car” returned this hit. Scroll down about 2/3 page for photos of a Dryflow tank car.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/p/254256/2841241.aspx Thanks! -- Brian Ehni From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 11:25 AM To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: [STMFC] M&StL LT 70001 GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car In November 1936 the M&StL leased one GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car which was marked M&StL 70001. It came onto the M&StL as GATX 34000 and was remarked by M&StL. We have found this car listed in 1937, 1938, and 1939 ORERs. Would anyone with a 1940 or 1941 ORER please look for M&StL LT 70001 and if found, let us know which month and year. A copy of page is not needed. We are just trying to determine when the lease ended. We checked January 1942 ORER and it was not listed. We assume from the length of the lease that the car was successful. Gene Green and Roger Ward Out in the Badlands of New Mexico |
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Tony Thompson
This car number is not listed in the April 1940 ORER. There is a covered hopper number series starting with 70003 (odd numbers only). Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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I was under the impression that the GATC “Dryflow” was a 3 bay covered hopper, and based on GATC’s two bay early Airslides, as shown in this model photo: http://cdn3.volusion.com/ztna9.tft5b/v/vspfiles/photos/TSM-12017-01-2.jpg?1456472651 These cars were produced starting in the 50’s, not 30’s.
Is there a photo of the car you’re describing, or similar car? Thanks! -- Brian Ehni From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 11:25 AM To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: [STMFC] M&StL LT 70001 GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car In November 1936 the M&StL leased one GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car which was marked M&StL 70001. It came onto the M&StL as GATX 34000 and was remarked by M&StL. We have found this car listed in 1937, 1938, and 1939 ORERs. Would anyone with a 1940 or 1941 ORER please look for M&StL LT 70001 and if found, let us know which month and year. A copy of page is not needed. We are just trying to determine when the lease ended. We checked January 1942 ORER and it was not listed. We assume from the length of the lease that the car was successful. Gene Green and Roger Ward Out in the Badlands of New Mexico |
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genegreen1942@...
In November 1936 the M&StL leased one GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car which was marked M&StL 70001. It came onto the M&StL as GATX 34000 and was remarked by M&StL. We have found this car listed in 1937, 1938, and 1939 ORERs. Would anyone with a 1940 or 1941 ORER please look for M&StL LT 70001 and if found, let us know which month and year. A copy of page is not needed. We are just trying to determine when the lease ended. We checked January 1942 ORER and it was not listed. We assume from the length of the lease that the car was successful. Gene Green and Roger Ward Out in the Badlands of New Mexico
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