Topics

Additional Naperville Note


WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Many familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they will see the comments and return next year.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


gary laakso
 

Bill, do you know what the attendance was or what it was compared to last year?
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note
 
 

 
Many familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they will see the comments and return next year.
 
Bill Pardie
 
 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Sorry Gary.  I'm not privy to that information

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 10/23/16 2:32 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note

 

Bill, do you know what the attendance was or what it was compared to last year?
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note
 
 

 
Many familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they will see the comments and return next year.
 
Bill Pardie
 
 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


water.kresse@...
 

What percent historians versus modelers?




From: "'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:32:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note

 

Bill, do you know what the attendance was or what it was compared to last year?
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note
 
 

 
Many familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they will see the comments and return next year.
 
Bill Pardie
 
 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Tom Madden
 

Are there any serious prototype modelers who aren't, in some way, historians? We aren't all playing follow the leader here.

If you're asking what percentage of the attendees was (were?) modelers, 90 percent would be my WAG.

Tom Madden, on the CZ in southern Iowa


Alexander Schneider Jr
 

This year's program continued the tradition of excellence of the previous decades.

 

One adjustment that offers possibilities was holding the after dinner programs in a different room than the dinners themselves. The programs were excellent. The dinners were mediocre at best, and the room could not accommodate every attendee if they wanted to come. Many locals went home and others went to nearby restaurants. I suggest it be made clear that you can go to the presentation even if you do not attend the dinner. 

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note

 




Bill, do you know what the attendance was or what it was compared to last year?

 

gary laakso

south of Mike Brock

 

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:18 PM

Subject: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note

 

 

 

Many familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they will see the comments and return next year.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone





Clark Propst
 

I suggest it be made clear that you can go to the presentation even if you do not attend the dinner.

Alex Schneider

 
I’ve gone to a few ‘dinners’ early on in y RPM days, but felt my money was better spend on resin than so-so food when I could eat at Jason’s Deli four times a day! Besides they always remind me of a NMRA or Historical Society meet....
 
This year a friend went to the pizza lunch and thought it went well. Guess the FotFC dinner was packed. So, don’t listen to me....
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 
 


skibbs4
 

The room we use for banquet dinners is advertised at 90. The hotel squeezed in 100 Friday night. I could have sold another 20 tickets if we had space since everyone seemed to be interested in the (outstanding) panel discussion after dinner!

The presentation wasn't open to those without a dinner ticket. It wouldn't be fair for those that paid to not get a seat in the Arcadia room. We had a fairly organized progression to the new room after dinner and hopefully too many interlopers didn't sneak in. 

Sign up early if next year's dinner looks appealing. It helps control costs of the rooms at the hotel by guaranteeing food and beverage sales. So we'll keep offering them and trying to slot in good presentations. 

Mike Skibbe

On Oct 24, 2016, at 8:42 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I suggest it be made clear that you can go to the presentation even if you do not attend the dinner.

Alex Schneider

 
I’ve gone to a few ‘dinners’ early on in y RPM days, but felt my money was better spend on resin than so-so food when I could eat at Jason’s Deli four times a day! Besides they always remind me of a NMRA or Historical Society meet....
 
This year a friend went to the pizza lunch and thought it went well. Guess the FotFC dinner was packed. So, don’t listen to me....
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 
 


dh30973
 

I want to add my congratulations to Mike and his team for a great meet. I wasn't there last year, but have attended about 75%  of them. Many improvements over the last few years. Opening the walls between the models, layouts, and vendors was a huge improvement. Makes everyone feel connected. I liked the pylons placed several places around the facility with the schedule attached showed a lot of class and made it easy to figure out what to do next if you didn't have the program in hand. Speaking of the program, a new standard has been set, with color printing on glossy paper, and some of the handouts included.
For those of you waiting for my usual pBase pictures, sorry I didn't take any this year.

Dave Hussey


Tim O'Connor
 


How was the LIGHT in the display room? Last year's (2015) meet it was so dark
in the display room I found it difficult to take photos. (I don't have a fancy
bounce flash and rely on time exposure.) That's one thing I liked about the old
Holiday Inn - big windows and lots of natural light.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. The room lighting at the St Louis meet (8/2016) was pretty weak as well.
  Andy Harman picked out the only really well lit area in the whole room. :-)




I want to add my congratulations to Mike and his team for a great meet. I wasn't there last year, but have attended about 75%  of them. Many improvements over the last few years. Opening the walls between the models, layouts, and vendors was a huge improvement. Makes everyone feel connected. I liked the pylons placed several places around the facility with the schedule attached showed a lot of class and made it easy to figure out what to do next if you didn't have the program in hand. Speaking of the program, a new standard has been set, with color printing on glossy paper, and some of the handouts included.
For those of you waiting for my usual pBase pictures, sorry I didn't take any this year.

Dave Hussey


Nelson Moyer
 

I would like more light. It was very hard to see details on darkly weathered models.

 

Nelson Moyer


Dick Harley
 

Nelson Moyer wished for more light on the models.

Maybe we need to start carrying a small LED flashlight - now cheap, small and light weight.
And, of course, many cell phones can be used as a flash light.

The white table clothes helped a lot compared to the black ones.


Just a thought,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Morning Dick:

It's always good to see you at one of the meets.  You bring a,wealth of informatoon to the table.

In reviewing my notes I seem to have missed your recommendation on which kit to use as a starting point for the R-30-12 PFE refers.
I recently csme actoss some great photos and although I never considered doing this car it would be a nice addition.

Thanks again for all of your contributions to the hobby.

Bill


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Dick Harley dick.harley4up@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 10/24/16 2:03 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Additional Naperville Note

 

Nelson Moyer wished for more light on the models.

Maybe we need to start carrying a small LED flashlight - now cheap, small and light weight.
And, of course, many cell phones can be used as a flash light.

The white table clothes helped a lot compared to the black ones.

Just a thought,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Dick Harley
 


Bill Pardie asked, which kit to use as a starting point for the R-30-12 PFE reefers.


Hi Bill,

Stuart Forsyth prodded and later showed me how to make PowerPoint slides into JPG files so I could put my clinics up on my SmugMug site:

So I have done my clinic from RPM Chicagoland, and it is in the PFE Models folder on the SmugMug site.  Of course, you have to go to the meet and attend the clinic to get the narration that goes with it, but you did that.

The quick answer to your question about modeling a PFE R-30-12 in HO scale is that Red Caboose made two similar cars: the R-30-12 and the taller R-30-12-9.  So you want the shorter car body.  Be aware that the R-30-12 class was essentially gone (rebuilt into newer classes) by 1950.  You can check the "Top Ten" class data for various years on my SmugMug site too.

I'll be putting more of my clinics and other data on that SmugMug site in the coming weeks.  So check in once in a while to see what's new.


Good to see you last week too,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Fred Jansz
 

Hi Dick,

hate to interfere & correct, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but according to my recent experiences Red Caboose made a low R-30-12-9 (28mm high) and a high R-30-9 (30mm high).
I know this because I'm into this discussion with Intermountain at the moment.
They sell (sold) two bodies of which I need 5 of the the higher ones (I model 1950) and they've sent me the short ones unfortuantely.
The higher ones being not in stock at the moment.
So I have 5 of the short bodies plus matching ends for sale.
These are with holes for grabs, while the taller R-30-9 ones are without holes for ladders,

cheers
Fred Jansz


Dick Harley
 


Fred Jansz wrote, "...according to my recent experiences Red Caboose made a low R-30-12-9 (28mm high) and a high R-30-9 (30mm high)."

Hi Fred,
It's been many years since those cars were tooled, but I'll try to remember and get the story basically straight.  Red Caboose set off to create a PFE R-30-12-9 kit.  However, they used plans for an R-30-12, which had a shorter body and several other differences, but the same underframe.  When they released their initial R-30-12-9 kits in the RC-4000 series, knowledgeable folks quickly pointed out the error.  Red Caboose, much to their credit, tooled another taller body and end, and they correctly renamed the RC-4000 series kits as a PFE R-30-12.  I measure the shorter body casting at about 1.115" and the taller body casting at about 1.175" high.  Both grab iron and ladder versions of the shorter body were made, so the key to identifying them is their shorter door or actually measuring them.

The new taller car kits were correctly labeled R-30-12-9 or R-30-9, depending on the era of the lettering scheme (sub-classes were dropped with the R-30/40-19 class in 1944).  They do not come in a grab iron version, but they do have variants for wood or integral steel hatches, and KC or AB brakes.  They have a small steel plate above the taller door.  Recent R-30-12-9 undec kits had all of those parts.
See my SmugMug site for photos of the taller cars.  I have not built any of the shorter cars, though I have a few.

So, there are a variety of parts available, especially on the second-hand market.  And the labeling is not necessarily correct, if they are some of the early kits.  But, to be correct, any car labeled -9, be it R-30-12-9 or R-30-9, should have the taller body, and the shorter body would be an R-30-12 (or R-30-14).

What InterMountain calls those parts on any particular day, I cannot predict.


Hope this helps,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Fred Jansz
 

Thanks for your expertise Dick.
My bad luck was I bought five R-30-12-9 labeled kits second hand that indeed had all the extra goodies like different hatches etc, but still came with the short body (R-30-12).  Ordered 5 tall bodies from IM however, they sent me short ones with holes for grabs plus short ends. The others are not available unfortunately.

best regards from Holland, the only country where all people live in windmills and walk on wooden shoes
Fred Jansz


Charlie Vlk
 

Alex-

I would disagree with you on the quality of the food that the hotel served…..while not fine gourmet dining it was far above “rubber chicken” fare.  The steak was very nice and the rest of the choices were pretty good too. 

As I understood it the after dinner presentations were only for those that opted for the dinner and were not part of the general registration.   While you are correct that the room could not have held all the attendees if they had opted to sign up for the dinner I am sure the hotel would have moved the event to another room or held it in the restaurant area.

The concept of having the after dinner presentations in the auditorium was excellent.   The Welcome Pizza Party had Phil Weibler’s presentation in the same room as the meal and it was harder to see his great photos compared to the other shows.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 9:18 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note

 

 

This year's program continued the tradition of excellence of the previous decades.

 

One adjustment that offers possibilities was holding the after dinner programs in a different room than the dinners themselves. The programs were excellent. The dinners were mediocre at best, and the room could not accommodate every attendee if they wanted to come. Many locals went home and others went to nearby restaurants. I suggest it be made clear that you can go to the presentation even if you do not attend the dinner. 

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note

 




Bill, do you know what the attendance was or what it was compared to last year?

 

gary laakso

south of Mike Brock

 

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:18 PM

Subject: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note

 

 

 

Many familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they will see the comments and return next year.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone





Alexander Schneider Jr
 

I hope we can agree to disagree on the quality of the dinner, while acknowledging that when the dinner and the slide show are held in different rooms there is no need to tie them together. Assuming that the cost of the auditorium was $250 and 100 people ate dinner and 150 didn't, you could reduce the cost of the dinner by $2.50 and increase the price of the symposium by $1 and be even. Perhaps this could be tried for one dinner next year while leaving the other "as is"

I would also urge reinstituting the cash bar close to the dining room, and if possible have it available before the slide show. (There may be licensing issues limiting consumption to particular rooms.)

Alex Schneider

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 11/10/16, 'Charlie Vlk' cvlk@comcast.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 10, 2016, 12:55 PM
Alex-I would disagree with you on the quality of the
food that the hotel served…..while not fine gourmet dining
it was far above “rubber chicken” fare.  The steak was
very nice and the rest of the choices were pretty good
too.  As I understood it the after dinner
presentations were only for those that opted for the dinner
and were not part of the general registration.   While you
are correct that the room could not have held all the
attendees if they had opted to sign up for the dinner I am
sure the hotel would have moved the event to another room or
held it in the restaurant area.The concept of having the after dinner
presentations in the auditorium was excellent.   The
Welcome Pizza Party had Phil Weibler’s presentation in the
same room as the meal and it was harder to see his great
photos compared to the other shows.Charlie Vlk
 
 From:
STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 9:18 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Additional Naperville
Note    This year's
program continued the tradition of excellence of the
previous decades. One adjustment that offers possibilities was
holding the after dinner programs in a different room than
the dinners themselves. The programs were excellent. The
dinners were mediocre at best, and the room could not
accommodate every attendee if they wanted to come. Many
locals went home and others went to nearby restaurants. I
suggest it be made clear that you can go to the presentation
even if you do not attend the dinner.  Alex Schneider From:
STMFC@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:33 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Additional Naperville
Note 


Bill, do you know what the
attendance was or what it was compared to last
year? gary
laaksosouth
of Mike Brock From: mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:18
PMTo: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Additional Naperville
Note    Many
familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they
will see the comments and return next
year. Bill
Pardie  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung
Galaxy
smartphone


skibbs4
 

Thanks for the ideas, Alex. Hotel contracts work under the idea of guaranteed revenue to offset the cost of the meeting spaces. (I wish the $250 number was real for a room cost, but that doesn't even cover the A/V equipment let alone the room!) Guaranteed revenue comes from room nights of attendees staying at the host hotel and also food and beverage sales at the meals. 

So given that I need to convince enough people to join us at the meals, I feel that it is important to provide a good presentation as part of the ticket.  It would be counter productive to treat the presentation as just another seminar that everyone could attend, as meal sales would decrease. 

The other problem is that the auditorium can't hold 250 people. Capacity is around 120 with all small chairs. The meal room holds 100. We can move the meals to the atrium, which I'm planning for next year, but we'll have to cap the tickets at 120 per meal so those people have a seat in the auditorium. 

The only space in the hotel that would allow all 300+ attendees on any one night is the ballroom, which we chose to fill with trains instead! ;-)

Could I negotiate a contract without food and beverage minimums? Probably. But then *everyone* would have to pay extra for the base registration to the tune of ~$25 or more. In the current model, people have the option to attend meals or not and I think it's better to have that option. 

I also tried to get the hotel to offer a cash bar before the meals. But, since we basically take over the whole hotel they didn't want to add staff, so they let us treat the Entre Bar as our own space and kept the bartender there.  I know this wasn't as convenient as being able to grab a drink right at the dinner room, but you can grab a drink on your way to dinner. I'll try to do a better job of reminding folks of that next year. 

Hope this helps. I'm glad that the response to the quality of the special presentations was so good that we're having the conversation about how to let more people enjoy them. Sign up early for meals next year to make sure you get a seat!

Mike Skibbe

On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:54 PM, aschneiderjr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I hope we can agree to disagree on the quality of the dinner, while acknowledging that when the dinner and the slide show are held in different rooms there is no need to tie them together. Assuming that the cost of the auditorium was $250 and 100 people ate dinner and 150 didn't, you could reduce the cost of the dinner by $2.50 and increase the price of the symposium by $1 and be even. Perhaps this could be tried for one dinner next year while leaving the other "as is"

I would also urge reinstituting the cash bar close to the dining room, and if possible have it available before the slide show. (There may be licensing issues limiting consumption to particular rooms.)

Alex Schneider

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 11/10/16, 'Charlie Vlk' cvlk@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Additional Naperville Note
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, November 10, 2016, 12:55 PM
Alex-I would disagree with you on the quality of the
food that the hotel served…..while not fine gourmet dining
it was far above “rubber chicken” fare.  The steak was
very nice and the rest of the choices were pretty good
too.  As I understood it the after dinner
presentations were only for those that opted for the dinner
and were not part of the general registration.   While you
are correct that the room could not have held all the
attendees if they had opted to sign up for the dinner I am
sure the hotel would have moved the event to another room or
held it in the restaurant area.The concept of having the after dinner
presentations in the auditorium was excellent.   The
Welcome Pizza Party had Phil Weibler’s presentation in the
same room as the meal and it was harder to see his great
photos compared to the other shows.Charlie Vlk
 
 From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 9:18 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Additional Naperville
Note    This year's
program continued the tradition of excellence of the
previous decades. One adjustment that offers possibilities was
holding the after dinner programs in a different room than
the dinners themselves. The programs were excellent. The
dinners were mediocre at best, and the room could not
accommodate every attendee if they wanted to come. Many
locals went home and others went to nearby restaurants. I
suggest it be made clear that you can go to the presentation
even if you do not attend the dinner.  Alex Schneider From:
STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...]

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Additional Naperville
Note 


Bill, do you know what the
attendance was or what it was compared to last
year? gary
laaksosouth
of Mike Brock From: mailto:STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:18
PMTo: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Additional Naperville
Note    Many
familiar faces were missing this year.  I hope they
will see the comments and return next
year. Bill
Pardie  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung
Galaxy
smartphone