Please identify truck?


Charles Peck
 

Here is a link (I hope) to a truck under an L&N caboose.  It says Bettendorf as cast on but

that rounded lower member seems different from other trucks I've seen.  Any ideas

on a name for this truck or a maker?


https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipPY0fSTwXDTzdL66lkWUg4FflPgShpSxfItnKIO


Thanks,

Chuck Peck



roy wojahn
 

Well, that address didn't work for me.

Roy Wojahn


On Friday, October 28, 2016 4:50 PM, "lnnrr152@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Here is a link (I hope) to a truck under an L&N caboose.  It says Bettendorf as cast on but
that rounded lower member seems different from other trucks I've seen.  Any ideas
on a name for this truck or a maker?


Thanks,
Chuck Peck




Charles Peck
 

If the first link didn't work, try this one.

This is my first try at using Google photos.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:36 PM, roy wojahn zuch2rew@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Well, that address didn't work for me.

Roy Wojahn


On Friday, October 28, 2016 4:50 PM, "lnnrr152@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Here is a link (I hope) to a truck under an L&N caboose.  It says Bettendorf as cast on but
that rounded lower member seems different from other trucks I've seen.  Any ideas
on a name for this truck or a maker?


Thanks,
Chuck Peck





granpa92@...
 

I believe this is called a Bettendorf T Section caboose truck. Kadee makes this truck in HO scale.

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page581_1581.htm

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Larry Platt

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 28, 2016 6:56 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Please identify truck?







If the first link didn't work, try this one.
https://goo.gl/photos/xEjZx9zByqDqJLjN8



This is my first try at using Google photos.
Chuck Peck



On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:36 PM, roy wojahn zuch2rew@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


 




Well, that address didn't work for me.


Roy Wojahn







On Friday, October 28, 2016 4:50 PM, "lnnrr152@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:





 




Here is a link (I hope) to a truck under an L&N caboose.  It says Bettendorf as cast on but
that rounded lower member seems different from other trucks I've seen.  Any ideas
on a name for this truck or a maker?


https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipPY0fSTwXDTzdL66lkWUg4FflPgShpSxfItnKIO



Thanks,
Chuck Peck


mark_landgraf
 

Chuck

I can see where the confusion crept in. You need first to understand that Bettendorf was a truck manufacturer, not a truck style. They made styles of trucks for themselves and others. ‎Most trucks were named for their inventor or patent holder, not the foundry that produced them. As a further example‎, ATSF had a Pullman 6 wheel truck under some of their tenders that were manufactured by General Steel Castings.

To compound this further, ‎Bettendorf did manufacture their own trucks, later with roller bearings, all for cabooses. 
 
Mark

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
From: Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 9:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Please identify truck?

 

If the first link didn't work, try this one.

This is my first try at using Google photos.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:36 PM, roy wojahn zuch2rew@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Well, that address didn't work for me.

Roy Wojahn


On Friday, October 28, 2016 4:50 PM, "lnnrr152@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Here is a link (I hope) to a truck under an L&N caboose.  It says Bettendorf as cast on but
that rounded lower member seems different from other trucks I've seen.  Any ideas
on a name for this truck or a maker?


Thanks,
Chuck Peck






Rhbale@...
 

You are looking at a Bettendorf L-section 30-ton caboose truck manufactured by the Bettendorf Axle Company of Bettendorf, Iowa. The L-section is a clue that it was likely made between 1903 and 1908. After that date most Bettendorf trucks were cast with T-section frames. By 1920 almost all had U-section frames which is still used today. 
 
Bettendorf  developed and patented the idea of casting the journal box integrally with the truck frame. The company licensed other manufacturers to use their design which is why you sometimes see another name on a Bettendorf-type truck. 
 
For a free summary of 20th century trucks by the late Richard Hendrickson visit http://mrhpub.com/2013-05-may/land#69/zoomed   
 
Enjoy.
 
Richard Bale
Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine
Always free at mrhmag.com
 


destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <mark_landgraf@...> wrote :

Chuck

I can see where the confusion crept in. You need first to understand that Bettendorf was a truck manufacturer, not a truck style. They made styles of trucks for themselves and others. ‎Most trucks were named for their inventor or patent holder, not the foundry that produced them. As a further example‎, ATSF had a Pullman 6 wheel truck under some of their tenders that were manufactured by General Steel Castings.

To compound this further, ‎Bettendorf did manufacture their own trucks, later with roller bearings, all for cabooses. 
 
Mark
===================

Good explanation, except for the "all for cabooses" part. Bettendorf most definitely did manufacture freight car trucks, both the freight version of this T-section truck and a later U-section truck. The company was sold to the Standard Car Truck Co., user of the Barber trade name, in the thirties, more or less concurrently with the adoption of the new double truss truck design, and the old Bettendorf designs were dropped from production. The swing motion caboose truck, however, continued on as the Barber-Bettendorf caboose truck to become the common truck for cabooses in North America.

Dennis Storzek


Charles Peck
 

Whether this truck is a Bettendorf product or a Bettendorf design made by someone else,
I would think that this style has some designation. A name, number, or code to put on 
specification sheets for ordering or repair purposes.
And no, the Kadee T-bar truck does not match.  Although there is similarity at the bolster,
the top of the journal boxes is much different.  The Kadee truck is flat below the bolster and
this truck is curved along the bottom. 
Barring new information, I am going to assume this truck has not been produced in HO.  No use rooting through boxes at train shows.  But when I have to fudge, I'd like to know what
I am substituting instead of.  Like when one has to use a Miner handbrake instead of a XYZ.
Thanks, Chuck Peck 

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:54 PM, Mark Landgraf mark_landgraf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Chuck

I can see where the confusion crept in. You need first to understand that Bettendorf was a truck manufacturer, not a truck style. They made styles of trucks for themselves and others. ‎Most trucks were named for their inventor or patent holder, not the foundry that produced them. As a further example‎, ATSF had a Pullman 6 wheel truck under some of their tenders that were manufactured by General Steel Castings.

To compound this further, ‎Bettendorf did manufacture their own trucks, later with roller bearings, all for cabooses. 
 
Mark

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
From: Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 9:56 PM
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Please identify truck?

 

If the first link didn't work, try this one.

This is my first try at using Google photos.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:36 PM, roy wojahn zuch2rew@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Well, that address didn't work for me.

Roy Wojahn


On Friday, October 28, 2016 4:50 PM, "lnnrr152@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Here is a link (I hope) to a truck under an L&N caboose.  It says Bettendorf as cast on but
that rounded lower member seems different from other trucks I've seen.  Any ideas
on a name for this truck or a maker?


Thanks,
Chuck Peck







destorzek@...
 

There was a LOT of variation in Bettendorf sideframe design. Since they were developing new technology (cast sideframes) every time a problem surfaced they would make a design change to deal with it. The original Bettendorf side frame design was almost a true diamond shape with the journal boxes appended to the ends, outside the intersection of the top and bottom chords. This was prone to cracking, and was then modified with additional ribs that extended out over the tops of the boxes, which the Kadee truck models. The trucks Chuck is asking about must be a later design yet, as the boxes have been more fully integrated into the sideframe truss.

Overland Models has made a lot of different caboose trucks in brass. The ones used under their DSS&A caboose have the rounded bottom chord, but still have the extra ribs over the boxes, as that is what was on that prototype:
BRASSTRAINS.COM - HO Brass Model Train - OMI 3949.1 DSS&A South Shore Shorty Wood Sheath Caboose #584

There were also these, which appear to have the more tightly integrated journal boxes, but lack the curved bottom chord:

http://www.overlandmodels.com/images/trains/AB-1102_main_large.jpg

 

There may have been others. The problem with Overland trucks is finding them separate from the caboose.


Good Luck.


Dennis Storzek


destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <Rhbale@...> wrote :

You are looking at a Bettendorf L-section 30-ton caboose truck manufactured by the Bettendorf Axle Company of Bettendorf, Iowa. The L-section is a clue that it was likely made between 1903 and 1908. After that date most Bettendorf trucks were cast with T-section frames. By 1920 almost all had U-section frames which is still used today.
==================

I completely disagree. Both the 1909 and 1916 CBC show drawings of the Bettendorf swing motion caboose truck of the time, and they have T section sideframes. Furthermore, they have structural steel (channel section) transoms riveted to the side frames. The unitized floating bolster package, which the truck Chuck is showing us has, was a later development. The truck in Chuck's pix is likely one of the last iterations before they went to a U section sideframe, and likely dates to the late teens. The U section sideframe is first shown in the 1922 CBC, IIRC.

Dennis Storzek


brianleppert@att.net
 

I'll agree with everything Dennis Storzek has written about this truck.  For built dates, I can add some cabooses shown in Morning Sun's L&N Color Guide, vol. 2, are said to be built in 1921 and 1924 with these trucks.  Could this caboose truck be unique to L&N?

There was also a freight version of this later T-section side frame truck.  Pere Marquette had house cars with them built in 1917, 1922, 1923 and 1926.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Charles Peck
 

Yes, The trucks I photographed were under a L&N Little Woody caboose. 
I would find it strange that L&N, a frugal railroad, would have custom made
unique trucks made.  Especially twice.  On the other hand, if a manufacturer
had some trucks on hand that no one else was buying and offered L&N a
good price, I could believe that scenario.  But from what I seem to be hearing,
there are rather rare trucks.  Interesting.....
Chuck Peck

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 6:47 PM, brianleppert@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I'll agree with everything Dennis Storzek has written about this truck.  For built dates, I can add some cabooses shown in Morning Sun's L&N Color Guide, vol. 2, are said to be built in 1921 and 1924 with these trucks.  Could this caboose truck be unique to L&N?

There was also a freight version of this later T-section side frame truck.  Pere Marquette had house cars with them built in 1917, 1922, 1923 and 1926.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV



Jack Mullen
 

Chuck, 
I don't think Brian's comments imply that L&N might have ordered "custom" trucks.  I think the point is that, in a period when cast sideframe design was evolving, it could have been that only L&N's order happened to receive this particular variant of an integral-journal cast-sideframe swing motion truck, before the design changed further. And sometimes obsolescent designs are reordered.

It's also possible there may be other examples that nobody's aware of. 

Jack Mullen


destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote :

Chuck, 
I don't think Brian's comments imply that L&N might have ordered "custom" trucks.  I think the point is that, in a period when cast sideframe design was evolving, it could have been that only L&N's order happened to receive this particular variant of an integral-journal cast-sideframe swing motion truck, before the design changed further. And sometimes obsolescent designs are reordered.

It's also possible there may be other examples that nobody's aware of. 

Jack Mullen
=================

Nice explanation, Jack. I might point out that there were two independent lines of development that were converging in these trucks: the cast steel transoms for the floating bolster caboose trucks, and the evolution of the sideframes toward the U-section design. These trucks received the former, very possibly the first use, but missed the later, and were possibly some of the last T-section sideframes produced.

I'm rather surprised I can't find a date on the floating "swing motion" bolster design. I would have thought this was patented, but I'm not getting any hits searching for the underlying patent. I realize swing motion trucks had been around for decades, but I would have thought the cast steel transoms would have been patentable. Anyone have a date of first use? They are not shown in the 1922 CBC.

Anyone who wants a better explanation what features are of the bolster, I did find this manufacturer's brochure. While it dates to almost six decades after the caboose in the discussion, the features of the bolster are the same, even if the sideframes have evolved to accommodate roller bearings.

http://www.srha.net/documents/BarberCabooseTruckPamphlet.pdf

Dennis Storzek