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Hooker Orange Tank car


Paul Catapano
 

Can anyone tell me when the Hooker Chemical Co. began painting their tank cars Orange?

Thanks in advance.
 
Paul Catapano


Tim O'Connor
 

Sometime around mid 1950's I think. Acid tanks, caustic soda tanks,
and chlorine tanks. 1956 at the latest, for certain.

Tim O

Can anyone tell me when the Hooker Chemical Co. began painting their tank cars Orange?
Thanks in advance.
Paul Catapano


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/21/2016 3:26 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
Sometime around mid 1950's I think. Acid tanks, caustic soda tanks, 
and chlorine tanks. 1956 at the latest, for certain.

Tim O
    I figured somewhere in that range which is why I cancelled my BLI tanks when I found out they were not black.


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


brianleppert@att.net
 

But what colors were they before the mid fifties?  The earliest builder's photo I've seen of a multi-color Hooker tank (HOKK 600) is from 1926.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


brianleppert@att.net
 

Oops-that should have been written HOKX 600.  But also builder's photo HOKX 221 in 1940 and a photo of HOKX  711 in 1950.  What were they if not black and orange?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Tim O'Connor
 

Brian

It sure looks black and orange on that car! And I've found another, HOKX 711,
a large 11,000 gallon car, from 1950 also in black and orange. Wait, almost ALL
of them appear to be black and orange, from the 1920's to the 1970's...

In fact if you look carefully at the BLI catalog image of HOKX 641, you can
see the differences in color tone. I think we've all been fooled by images
perhaps taken with camera color filters that toned down the orange! The BLI
model, if black, is simply WRONG !

The ONLY photo I've seen of a car that appears to be a solid dark color is
HOKX 31322 in 1952, a large insulated single dome car perhaps for caustic soda.
But it's a black & white photo so I really can't be sure.

Tim O'Connor



Oops-that should have been written HOKX 600.  But also builder's photo HOKX 221 in 1940 and a photo of HOKX  711 in 1950.  What were they if not black and orange?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


pennsylvania1954
 

This may help. Or not. At least it is additional info.


In Richard Hendrickson's article on the Atlas cars in the July 03 RMJ, he includes two photos of Hooker cars. In the caption for the first, he writes, in part, “Here's an SHPX car that was built in November 1950 for chlorine loading at Hooker's Tacoma, Washington branch. At that time Hooker cars had black underframes, bottom shells, and center bands while the top shells and ends were red and all lettering was white.--American Car & Foundry photo from the Hawkins-Wider-Long collection.” The lettering on the car is in the same style as the prototype 6000 gal car BLI shows at

http://www.broadway-limited.com/6000gallontankcar.aspx .


The second photo shows a car in the orange and black scheme. The caption reads, in part, “By April 1952, when SHPX 1291 was built for anhydrous ammonia service, Hooker had adopted an even more colorful paint and lettering scheme with black underframes, bottom shells, and center bands; orange tank shell and ends; and black and white stenciling……--Col. Chet McCoid photo, Bob's Photo Service collection”.


Steve Hoxie

Pensacola FL


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/21/2016 6:57 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:

In fact if you look carefully at the BLI catalog image of HOKX 641, you can
see the differences in color tone. I think we've all been fooled by images
perhaps taken with camera color filters that toned down the orange! The BLI
model, if black, is simply WRONG !
    It sure looks black to me but looking at the BLI photo a lot I start to see different tones.  Would sure like to be sure but I am getting one of the variety packs so maybe some trades are in the offering


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Ed Hawkins
 


On Nov 21, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Paul Catapano pc66ot@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Can anyone tell me when the Hooker Chemical Co. began painting their tank cars Orange?

Paul,
I can verify with ACF paint specifications that “orange” was used on HOKX tank cars dating back to at least July 1933 (ACF lot no. 1291), except that the paint color was specified as "U.T.L. Red” or “Pliolite Red.” I’m not sure what U.T.L. stood for, but “Pliolite” was a paint formulation name. "U.T.L. Red" was applied on two orders for 3 tank cars built in 1933-1934. HOKX tank cars built by ACF from 1936 through 1941 used Pliolite Red. Despite the “Red” paint color, I’m reasonably sure it was actually orange, but if anyone can prove otherwise I’m glad to recant this assumption.

Even earlier than 1933, several ACF builder photos show the likelihood of orange and black 3,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1926-1927 and one order of 6,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1928, however, these cars predate the ACF paint specifications that start in 1931. Some of these photos can be seen on the Barriger National Railroad Library web site via flikr at:


This site was originally posted by Mark Hemphill on Jan. 8, 2016, and the number of photos has grown since then. Photos of these 1920s Hooker tank cars can be found under lot numbers 9, 19, 60, 66, 366, and 638. ACF built 40 additional 3,000 A.R.A. Class V tank cars (HOKX 301-340) in 1923-1924, however, I have not seen photos of them. Perhaps they are in the Barriger Library Collection.

Some of these 1920s photos can easily be misinterpreted regarding how the cars were painted, which occurred with the original BLI catalogue. This may have been because of the type of film used in which the “orange” and black tended to show little contrast between the two colors. Close inspection reveals the center band was black with the balance of the top portion of the jacket likely being orange (i.e., U.T.L. Red). Lots 9, 19, and 368 show the top portion of the heads painted orange and the bottom portion black. For lots 60, 66, and 366 it’s difficult to tell due to the color contrast.

For the later HOKX cars built starting in 1933, except for the black center band, the orange was used on the top portion of the tank (or jacket, if insulated) and the heads. The balance of the tank or jacket was black as well as the underframe & trucks. 

Four orders totaling 13 cars built in 1934-1936 (615, 618-619, 626-629, 638-643), 6,000 gal., ICC-105A, chlorine tank cars received aluminum stencils while ICC-103B/103BW acid tank cars built from 1937 through 1941 all in the 216-226 series had white stencils. An ACF builder photo of HOKX 219 built 12-39 is shown on the first page of the Barriger site.

Other Hooker Tank cars built by ACF were similarly painted in 1950 and later based on photographs, however, ACF paint specs for these cars are not available.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Rufus Cone
 

This search gives five links to the history of the trademark Pliolite.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3Aykmwn.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=pliolite&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

In the first instances, it was filed by Goodyear Tire & Rubber in the exact time frame Ed Hawkins mentions.

Perhaps someone familiar with Goodyear paint and coating history can provide further details.

According to this related search, the trademark Pliolite was first used 11/22/1932.�
http://www.trademarkia.com/pliolite-71358245.html

From other searches, the trademark Pliolite appears to cover a variety of resin-based coatings including some used on metal.

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT

On 11/22/2016 12:29 AM, Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC] wrote:
�


On Nov 21, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Paul Catapano pc66ot@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Can anyone tell me when the Hooker Chemical Co. began painting their tank cars Orange?

Paul,
I can verify with ACF paint specifications that �orange� was used on HOKX tank cars dating back to at least July 1933 (ACF lot no. 1291), except that the paint color was specified as "U.T.L. Red� or �Pliolite Red.� I�m not sure what U.T.L. stood for, but �Pliolite� was a paint formulation name. "U.T.L. Red" was applied on two orders for 3 tank cars built in 1933-1934. HOKX tank cars built by ACF from 1936 through 1941 used Pliolite Red. Despite the �Red� paint color, I�m reasonably sure it was actually orange, but if anyone can prove otherwise I�m glad to recant this assumption.

Even earlier than 1933, several ACF builder photos show the likelihood of orange and black 3,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1926-1927 and one order of 6,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1928, however, these cars predate the ACF paint specifications that start in 1931. Some of these photos can be seen on the Barriger National Railroad Library web site via flikr at:


This site was originally posted by Mark Hemphill on Jan. 8, 2016, and the number of photos has grown since then. Photos of these 1920s Hooker tank cars can be found under lot numbers 9, 19, 60, 66, 366, and 638. ACF built 40 additional 3,000 A.R.A. Class V tank cars (HOKX 301-340) in 1923-1924, however, I have not seen photos of them. Perhaps they are in the Barriger Library Collection.

Some of these 1920s photos can easily be misinterpreted regarding how the cars were painted, which occurred with the original BLI catalogue. This may have been because of the type of film used in which the �orange� and black tended to show little contrast between the two colors. Close inspection reveals the center band was black with the balance of the top portion of the jacket likely being orange (i.e., U.T.L. Red). Lots 9, 19, and 368 show the top portion of the heads painted orange and the bottom portion black. For lots 60, 66, and 366 it�s difficult to tell due to the color contrast.

For the later HOKX cars built starting in 1933, except for the black center band, the orange was used on the top portion of the tank (or jacket, if insulated) and the heads. The balance of the tank or jacket was black as well as the underframe & trucks.�

Four orders totaling 13 cars built in 1934-1936 (615, 618-619, 626-629, 638-643), 6,000 gal., ICC-105A, chlorine tank cars received aluminum stencils while ICC-103B/103BW acid tank cars built from 1937 through 1941 all in the 216-226 series had white stencils. An ACF builder photo of HOKX 219 built 12-39 is shown on the first page of the Barriger site.

Other Hooker Tank cars built by ACF were similarly painted in 1950 and later based on photographs, however, ACF paint specs for these cars are not available.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Posted by: Ed Hawkins


Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <rclist09@...> wrote :


In the first instances, it was filed by Goodyear Tire & Rubber in the exact time frame Ed Hawkins mentions.

Perhaps someone familiar with Goodyear paint and coating history can provide further details.
=======================

I would suspect that "Pliolite" is the base resin system in Goodyear Pliobond contact cement. If you google "Pliobond" you'll see that, while no longer manufactured by Goodyear, the packaging prominently features the same orange-red that I remember on the Goodyear cans.

As to U.T.L. red, anyone remember that at one time Union Tank Line used Standard Oil red for their cars? In 1933 that would have been in the working memory of the people writing the specifications. Old color names die hard, just like old RR names.

I would suspect the color they are describing is an orangey fire engine red, not the orange used by Lionel in the fifties on their Hooker cars.

Dennis Storzek


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/22/2016 5:50 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

I would suspect the color they are describing is an orangey fire engine red,

Dennis,

   Would that be a color similar to the early ATSF E1 red/orange?  BLI thinks in terms of sales (don't blame them) so some discussion about the E1 colors was that many people might avoid buying because they thought the color might be wrong.  So on the Hookers is it possible they almost got it right but should have added more red?  All the early tinplate stuff is a bright orange and they may have followed that.  Not all the tinplate stuff was wrong! 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <atsfus@...> wrote :


On 11/22/2016 5:50 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

I would suspect the color they are describing is an orangey fire engine red,

Dennis,

   Would that be a color similar to the early ATSF E1 red/orange?  BLI thinks in terms of sales (don't blame them) so some discussion about the E1 colors was that many people might avoid buying because they thought the color might be wrong.  So on the Hookers is it possible they almost got it right but should have added more red?  All the early tinplate stuff is a bright orange and they may have followed that.  Not all the tinplate stuff was wrong! 

===============

Hey, I don't know anything about this, other than Ed Hawkins' info says "red" and the Lionel cars from the fifties are orange. Then again, the color could have changed in the intervening years, especially since Hooker didn't seem to own the "Pliolite" trademark. All I know is that if Piolite is anything like Pliobond, "Pliolite red" isn't the color of the coating, since Pliobond is pink... well, dark pink. So, the color being described is likely the color that was associated with the trademark, which has been consistently orange-red since the sixties at least.

Dennis Storzek


Ed Hawkins
 


On Nov 22, 2016, at 1:29 AM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

Lots 9, 19, and 368 show the top portion of the heads painted orange and the bottom portion black. 

STMFC,
To correct a typo I made, this should have stated "Lots 9, 19, and 638…." 

Despite the shading of the top portion of the jacket in these three photos appearing fairly light, the stencils were white.  This is an indication to me that the color was probably not a light shade of orange but rather a deeper shade (i.e., a red-orange?) as Dennis alluded to. If the shade of orange was light, black stencils would have made more sense. 
Ed Hawkins


Jared Harper
 

I would call it Hooters orange.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


---In STMFC@..., <pc66ot@...> wrote :

Can anyone tell me when the Hooker Chemical Co. began painting their tank cars Orange?

Thanks in advance.
 
Paul Catapano


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/22/2016 5:50 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
I would suspect the color they are describing is an orangey fire engine red

    Similar to the red used on the original ATSF E1??????

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS