Topics

Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish


Greg Martin
 

Ron,

When you are ready to invest, go online and print out a 40% off one coupon from Hobby Lobby and buy the one that best fits you, they have several. IF it were me it would be a Pasche as they have parts available for them in the store.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
Ron Merrick writes:

 
Soon I'll need to buy a new airbrush, and I'll buy a new compressor to go with it, because I've got some stuff under construction that will need colors that don't come in a can.  But I have had several years worth of backlog that didn't need airbrushing, so I've gone with the flow.


mopacfirst
 

I've been using an airbrush since 1970, probably painted 400 to 500 cars with them, first using cans of Propel until I could afford an airbrush.  My first couple hundred freight cars that I painted are now in a box, because they're Athearn blue box, which is all there was at the time, and the Floquil colors were all I had, back in the days when there was only one boxcar red.

Today I'm between airbrushes, because my Wren finally gave up the ghost.  I haven't needed one quite as much in the last few years because I've been building so many cars like Branchline where the lettering and the color are finally good enough.  But I still need to paint trucks, underbody details, couplers, etc., so starting ten or fifteen years or more ago I used the Floquil rattle can for a lot of stuff that wasn't a special color.

I'm just about out of almost all the colors now, but I have been able to get the Scalecoat II paints (yes, I agree the nozzles are better than Floquil) and there are a better selection of freight car colors that I actually use. 

Soon I'll need to buy a new airbrush, and I'll buy a new compressor to go with it, because I've got some stuff under construction that will need colors that don't come in a can.  But I have had several years worth of backlog that didn't need airbrushing, so I've gone with the flow.

I can use some king of flat overspray if I don't like the gloss, but usually those detail parts just get oversprayed with the rest of the car, so no big deal.

And yes, I have painted entire resin cars with spray cans, but mostly black, and I can't tell the difference after a bit of weathering. 

Ron Merrick


Bill Welch
 

I have used the Microscale Clear Coats for 20+ years, flat and gloss, thinned about 50/50 w/Distilled water. Sprayed w/a Badger 155 Anthem siphon feed AB w/.75 needle/nozzle combo at 20 PSI.

Recently however I did try some Vallejo Model Air flat with good results.

Bill Welch


naptownprr
 

Chuck,

When you write ACE, do you mean the brand of paint or the hardware store?

Jim


From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Chuck Cover' chuck.cover@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 10:12 AM,


To: STMFC@...
Sub [STMFC] Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish
 
 

For all of my projects, locomotives, freight cars and structures, I first use a spray can of flat black as a primer.  I have used various brands including ACE and Rust-Oleum.  For the finish color I will use the air brush when I have an acceptable color available.  I favor the left over Floquil that I have horded and Scalecoat.  I do not like to use acrylic paints in the airbrush.

 

I recently found ACE  red oxide primer to be a reasonable FCC for PRR rolling stock.  I use a spray booth for all solvent based painting and adhesives.  The spray booth is next to a double hung window that I removed the screen from and put in a piece of plywood with a vent for the spray booth.  When I use the spray booth, I open the window and attach the exhaust to the vent.  When I am done, just disconnect the exhaust and close t! he window.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM  


O Fenton Wells
 

I got back from Cocoa with a doozie of a stomach virus.  Lost 12 pounds since the Monday after.  Of course I needed to lose weight but not that way.

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


John Sykes III
 

Yuz gize stole one of my top secrets!!!

About a month before the CCB Meet, I gave a presentation at my club on "Non-traditional Paints".

My favorite brand is Krylon (I like the trigger action on the Krylon paints better than RustOleum -- I do use RustOleum dark grey automotive sandable primer for the base of my yards, under the cinders.  However, I found that the Krylon paint from WalMart is different from the Krylon paint at Ace Hardware.  The Ace versions I like -- not so the WalMart versions (note they have different SKUs and variety names on either).

For $4.99 a can (12 oz) it is a hellova deal over the 4 oz Model Masters or 6 oz Scalecoat II, the latter at $9.95 a can.  I often have trouble getting that last oz of paint out of a can of Model Masters, too.

My favorite colors are the Krylon primers, which are dead flat.  Including black primer, oxide red primer (which is very near to Floquil oxide red), grey primer (a medium true grey), and white primer.  I have been using these on all the buildings I am constructing for my layout (with some Model Masters & SCII).

One other Krylon color I use a lot is their Metallics "Dull Aluminum".  Works great for any galvanized surface such as freight car roofs, corrugated siding and roofs on buildings, etc. (with appropriate weathering).

I do weather mainly by airbrush, so use a 10% mix of paint to lacquer thinner with various colors for weathering, such as grimy black (PRR), or Steve Hoxie's favorite, roof brown.

-- John

P.S.  I got back from Cocoa incubating one hell of a cold.  Been basically bed ridden for 5 days now.  Got to go pick up an Rx at WalMart this afternoon.  Anyone else catch anything?


Bruce Smith
 

Clark,

Results, not prejudice, indicate that rattle cans can produce superlative outcomes.  I have by no means ditched the airbrush, but the rattle can is another tool in a wide armamentarium of tools to get the job done.  As I noted, I use them on all of my brass PRR models for a base black (under DGLE) as well as the final coat on all black areas (passenger car roofs, underbodies, trucks, locomotive and tender frames and running gear).  In my hands, the Model Master brand spray bombs are an efficient, cost effective, time saving, high quality approach to getting the job done… and unlike specific model paints, I can buy them at my local USA Hobbies or Hobby Lobby.

Next up is a Tichy ACL 76000 series flat car that will get the spray bomb treatment after grit blasting.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:18 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Are those using rattle cans to paint their fine models the same ones that spend big bucks on the tools needed to build them? If so - Weird!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Clark Propst
 

Are those using rattle cans to paint their fine models the same ones that spend big bucks on the tools needed to build them? If so - Weird!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Martin Young
 

My model painting is N Scale but the same ideas are there. I use an Iwata double action brush with the paint cup on top. A few years ago I bought at Sears a compressor with a ten gallon air tank. Filling it is noisy but once filled I turn off the compressor and just use the air in the tank. I have a regulator to control the amount of air I get. Plus the air from the tank is cool. I generally had the most problems when painting directly from a compressor. The air is warm and things happen.

Marty
San Diego, CA

---- "tgregmrtn@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

How many guys here use spray cans to paint their HO Scale equipment? In
today's world why wouldn't you have acquired even the most economic airbrush?


Show of hands...

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


In a message dated 1/15/2017 3:12:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:




At yesterday's Great Train Show I talked with Joel Bragdon, the weathering
powder entrepreneur, about base and finish coatings for use with chalks
and powders.
He mentioned that Rust-Oleum announced a new coating last March called
"Dead Flat Clear" and that he likes the product. Here is a photo link:
http://tinyurl.com/jnou4lu
I did a little searching and found that Home Depot and Lowe's both carry
it.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA




Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, yes, Bill, it does. Or rather, did. It was McDonald flat lacquer for photo finishing. Unfortunately, I found that about 30+ years ago, and well, a gallon lasts you a L O N G time, even if you give some to your friends.



But I eventually used it up (or it went sideways in the divorce, not sure which) and went to buy some more. And McDonald had by then been bought and folded into another company and didn’t list it anymore. I mean, who needs photo finishing lacquer anymore? I did find a suitable product and will go find the gallon tomorrow (it’s late here) and let you know.



Schuyler







Hello Group,



Schuyler wrote "I came across a flat lacquer used in the professional photographer trade to spray finished photos after they’d been retouched. Of course, now, ‘retouching” happens in the computer but you can still buy that flat a lacquer at a good paint store, the only problem being that it comes only in gallon size, and needs to be let down about 4:1 with lacquer thinner.”



Does this photo finishing flat lacquer have a product name?



Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Greg Martin
 

Schuyler writes:

"Wait!!! You mean, paint comes in CANS?"
 
I am surprised at how may folks use spray cans on models and it was interesting as to why they don't use an air brush even though they may own one.
 
I like that opening Schuyler!  I too use spray cans to "bomb' certain things, like roadbed, track, first coat on streets and sub-color for scenery most anywhere... Models no.

"I never use spray cans for model work. I want control over what, where and how much paint I apply."
 
Your right it is called control, something some folks can MASTER with a can I but not I. Since I was a kid on a bike riding to Brookhurst Hobbies in Garden Grove, CA with the original owner the late John Lee (general manager of Knott's Berry Farm) I was trained to use an airbrush, and it was, like Schuyler, a Binks Wren, two as matter of fact and both retired. And a Miller compressor long since retired. The airbrushes I have in the original boxes in the garage for some strange reason, the compressor was scrapped.
 
At the time they were, as the kids say, the BOMB! Now its my Pasche mostly because of the availability of replacement parts. I have several airbrushes (5) and they all serve separate roles, like weathering and the like.

"I have a Binks Wren (two, actually) even still, and have gotten compliments on the results, and have even done custom painting using them. The Binks compressor finally gave out (acquired about 1975) and I bought a Harbor Freight horizontal tank compressor to replace that, which is fine but kind of noisy. I built a spray booth, which goes out the same window opening as the clothes dryer (but not at the same time!) which was fitted (by others) with a dryer vent fitting through a piece of plexi. That will be upgraded to simply through the wall this summer, when the basement rework is closer to being complete.

The Rust Oleum flat sounds interesting, but as faithful readers may recall, years ago I came across a flat lacquer used in the professional photographer trade to spray finished photos after they’d been retouched. Of course, now, ‘retouching” happens in the computer but you can still buy that flat a lacquer at a good paint store, the only problem being that it comes only in gallon size, and needs to be let down about 4:1 with lacquer thinner.

I have used acrylics, but I don’t like them, and they don’t like me.

Schuyler"
 
I have been using an airbrush since the late sixties in my hobby and in school, and Like Tony reminds us that cleaning the airbrush between every change in color or completion of my session I clean my brush. It is a matter of self discipline and no big deal, just do it. I don't like acrylics and I have tried many, I don't use them.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

Schuyler wrote "I came across a flat lacquer used in the professional photographer trade to spray finished photos after they’d been retouched. Of course, now, ‘retouching” happens in the computer but you can still buy that flat a lacquer at a good paint store, the only problem being that it comes only in gallon size, and needs to be let down about 4:1 with lacquer thinner.

Does this photo finishing flat lacquer have a product name? 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA





Schuyler Larrabee
 

Wait!!! You mean, paint comes in CANS?



I never use spray cans for model work. I want control over what, where and how much paint I apply.



I have a Binks Wren (two, actually) even still, and have gotten compliments on the results, and have even done custom painting using them. The Binks compressor finally gave out (acquired about 1975) and I bought a Harbor Freight horizontal tank compressor to replace that, which is fine but kind of noisy. I built a spray booth, which goes out the same window opening as the clothes dryer (but not at the same time!) which was fitted (by others) with a dryer vent fitting through a piece of plexi. That will be upgraded to simply through the wall this summer, when the basement rework is closer to being complete.



The Rust Oleum flat sounds interesting, but as faithful readers may recall, years ago I came across a flat lacquer used in the professional photographer trade to spray finished photos after they’d been retouched. Of course, now, ‘retouching” happens in the computer but you can still buy that flat a lacquer at a good paint store, the only problem being that it comes only in gallon size, and needs to be let down about 4:1 with lacquer thinner.



I have used acrylics, but I don’t like them, and they don’t like me.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 2:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





How many guys here use spray cans to paint their HO Scale equipment? In today's world why wouldn't you have acquired even the most economic airbrush?



Show of hands...



Greg Martin



Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



In a message dated 1/15/2017 3:12:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:



At yesterday's Great Train Show I talked with Joel Bragdon, the weathering powder entrepreneur, about base and finish coatings for use with chalks and powders.



He mentioned that Rust-Oleum announced a new coating last March called "Dead Flat Clear" and that he likes the product. Here is a photo link:



<http://tinyurl.com/jnou4lu> http://tinyurl.com/jnou4lu



I did a little searching and found that Home Depot and Lowe's both carry it.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


jczzo126 CocuzzaT
 

I have probably tried all these methods and types of paints over the years. Remember Ulrich 410M paint? Dullcote seems to be very humidity sensitive, the higher the humidity, the more likely to get white or milky. I have even used Testor's cheap plastic airbrushes, either with a propellant can or my compressor. Clean them a couple times, toss them if they get too crappy. I do have a good compressor and booth, and a good, really old Miller brush, and a Passche. For clean-up, appropriate thinner for whatever type of paint I used. The secret with spray cans is, make sure they're shaken well, and warm. Also, I save the nozzles when the can is empty, clean it good, and then, if I have a can that doesn't have a good clean nozzle, chuck it and change it. I do tend to use spray cans when I can, set-up and clean-up time quicker. But, now that I am building better (read more $$) kits, It's worth my time to finish it well.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:50 PM, frangiacoma@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Got a can of Dead Flat Clear today at Home Depot and sprayed an Owl Mountain Models lumber load. Came out better than using Dullcoat, which has been my flat finish for a number of years. Given this success, I'll try it on other items.

Fran Giacoma



StephenK
 

I started out many years ago with a budget Badger airbrush and had good li=uck with it.   I then got a nice, single action Paasch and used it for years, but finally the needle and tip needed replacement and I decided to go for a double action.   I got a Testors Aztec and used it for a while, but it gave me a lot of trouble.   Now I am back to the cheapie Badger and getting the results I need with no problems.   

I have used  Dullcote in the rattle can for years, but am ready to try the Rust-Oleum--the Dullcote is a lot of money for a small can!@

Steve Kay


Fran Giacoma
 

Got a can of Dead Flat Clear today at Home Depot and sprayed an Owl Mountain Models lumber load. Came out better than using Dullcoat, which has been my flat finish for a number of years. Given this success, I'll try it on other items.
Fran Giacoma


Gene Deimling
 

I find it surprising that rattle cans would be used on model equipment especially a brand sold at Home Depot.
The best dead flat finish is Alclad 2. It is intended for airbrush only.

Gene Deimling


Andy Brusgard
 

Denny, I never turn the spray can upside down to clear the nozzle. I pull they nozzle off and drop it into a small jar wirh lacquer thinner. After a few minutes, I  run some lacquer thinner through it with a dropper.  Put it back on the can and you are go to go the next time. Just, don't push it back on the can to hard or you are starting over. :-)
AndyB
modelengineers.org


Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the info about decanting paint from spray cans. I appreciate the education.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jan 16, 2017, at 11:03 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bill Keene asked:
"That said, I am wondering if the Rust-Oleum comes in a can or bottle along with the rattle can? If not, then perhaps spraying into a jar and then using that to spray from an air brush might be a good solution."

Decanting paint from spray cans:



Tony Thompson
 

       I am very apprehensive with spray cans and always get the spray going on a card before deciding if it is "burping" globs of paint or not. But if it sprays okay and I can spray from a distance where it is almost drying before arrival, I find most brands work well. I have used a number of Tamiya colors in spray cans with good result.
       But most railroad colors, and any really good model, I would certainly use either my Badger or Iwata airbrush. I would echo those who have emphasized cleaning -- I learned this many years ago and ALWAYS clean immediately after use. Sometimes I realize I missed a spot and have to reload, repaint, and re-clean, but I ALWAYS clean upon stopping painting. All my brushes work fine.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history