Branchline 40' Postwar AAR box cars


Fred Jansz
 

Hi all, I have a question regarding Branchline's 40' postwar AAR box cars. As a WP fan I've built 3 of these (WP owned 250) for my HO-scale fleet. However, I have 2 more to build that I would like to paint & letter for other roads. The cars have 4/4 dreadnaught ends, panel roofs and 7' door Youngstown doors. Now the Q is: which other roads posessed similar cars with 7' doors? I model/collect July 1950. Run boards, doors & brake can be any type since the kits are not yet assembled. Thanks for your expertise.
Best regards,
Fred 'WP' Jansz



Bill Welch
 

Fred, here is the link to table compiled by Ed Hawkins covering the cars you are interested in: Steam Era Freight Cars - Postwar AAR Box Cars - As Built

 

Bill Welch


Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Fred,

I have a BCK (blt 1956), ERIE (blt 1952) and a PRR (blt 1951), all unbuilt Branchline kits.  Would you be interested in a trade?  I model 1952, so I'm hoping the WP cars are the ones built in 1947.

Todd Sullivan.


Todd Sullivan
 

I should have added that these are all 40ft cars with 7ft doors.

Todd Sullivan


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Todd, you are raising a question in my mind, to which I think I know the answer, but I’d like to clarify things:

You’re listing three cars “built” in the ‘50s, which do not appear on Ed’s list, ERIE, BC and PRR. So are those models “foobies,” or is Ed’s list a dated list, i.e., a list of cars of that ID that existed in 1944, or is it an “all time list” of all the roads that had cars matching that description?

I suspect the latter, but I think you can see how I could wonder about this.

Schuyler



Hi Fred,

I have a BCK (blt 1956), ERIE (blt 1952) and a PRR (blt 1951), all unbuilt Branchline kits. Would you be interested in a trade? I model 1952, so I'm hoping the WP cars are the ones built in 1947.

Todd Sullivan.


Todd Sullivan
 

I wondered about that, too. 

It will take some digging, but I am fairly certain that I saw the BCK cars in the Southern Tier of NYS in the 1970s. 

I have an Erie-Lackawanna equip book, and Group 7 Sheet 21 shows ERIE 86000-86499 built 8/52-11/52 in the Dunmore Shops with Youngstown 7' doors, IDE ends and diagonal panel roofs, Ajax handbrakes, Barber Stabilized Ride Control trucks, but no mention of running board mfr.

The PRR car is class X43B, and I'm fairly certain that the model is correct.

I think Ed's list may be of cars built by car builders, but not the RRs.

Todd Sullivan


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Interesting distinction, Todd, thanks for pointing out that potential explanation. Ed’s list should include that disclaimer, if that’s the case.



Schuyler




Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Branchline 40' Postwar AAR box cars

I wondered about that, too.

It will take some digging, but I am fairly certain that I saw the BCK cars in the Southern Tier of NYS in the 1970s.

I have an Erie-Lackawanna equip book, and Group 7 Sheet 21 shows ERIE 86000-86499 built 8/52-11/52 in the Dunmore Shops with Youngstown 7' doors, IDE ends and diagonal panel roofs, Ajax handbrakes, Barber Stabilized Ride Control trucks, but no mention of running board mfr.

The PRR car is class X43B, and I'm fairly certain that the model is correct.

I think Ed's list may be of cars built by car builders, but not the RRs.

Todd Sullivan


Bill Welch
 

Hold on there, you guys are talking about a different group of cars than I sent the link for. You need to go the the Steam Era Freight Car site and look at the other tables for post war steel cars. Do your homework boys!

Bill Welch


Schuyler Larrabee
 

I don’t think so, Bill. Try your own link. It goes to the table on the Steam Freight Cars Site, just as you said. But if you look at that table, neither ERIE, Buffalo Creek nor PRR are listed, the roads Todd listed. I think Todd may have the right interpretation, the models he has with those road names may represent railroad-built editions of the same cars, whereas Ed’s list is for cars meeting that description that were built by commercial car builders. For example, as Todd mentioned, the ERIE cars were built in the road’s shops, and that probably also applies to the BC cars, as ERIE owned 50% of the BC.



You provided that link in relation to the cars in the subject line.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 10:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Branchline 40' Postwar AAR box cars





Hold on there, you guys are talking about a different group of cars than I sent the link for. You need to go the the Steam Era Freight Car site and look at the other tables for post war steel cars. Do your homework boys!



Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


pennsylvania1954
 

Schuyler--The Postwar AAR Box Car List compiled by Ed Hawkins on the Steam Era Freight Cars site only includes cars with 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends, as stated at the top of the table. The Branchline PRR and Erie (1952 built) kits cited by Todd have Rib/3/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends, and thus have prototypes not included in this list.

It should be noted that Ed's list jumps from D&RGW to GM&O, skipping at least the Erie (1946 built) cars.

Bill--The only post war boxcar tables I see on the site are the PS-1 list and the one you cited. Where did you find others?

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL




Ed Hawkins
 

'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:

I don’t think so, Bill. Try your own link. It goes to the table on the Steam Freight Cars Site, just as you said. But if you look at that table, neither ERIE, Buffalo Creek nor PRR are listed, the roads Todd listed. I think Todd may have the right interpretation, the models he has with those road names may represent railroad-built editions of the same cars, whereas Ed’s list is for cars meeting that description that were built by commercial car builders. For example, as Todd mentioned, the ERIE cars were built in the road’s shops, and that probably also applies to the BC cars, as ERIE owned 50% of the BC.
Schuyler, Bill, Fred, Todd, and others interested,
The rosters I compiled nearly 15 years ago and currently on the STMFC web site contain box cars from both car builders and railroads as may be applicable. What may be missing in this discussion is that there are multiple rosters differentiated by the time period in which they were built and often limited to cars with one or more specific types of ends. One example is my roster of new AAR 40' box cars with 4-4 Improved Dreadnaught ends used from 1945 well into the 1950s as Canadian railroads used them longer than American railroads.

As Schuyler pointed out, Erie cars having 4-4 IDN ends (3 series covering 82000-83199) as well as cars for D&TS and Georgia were in my original Excel list between D&RGW and GM&O, but when translated into PDF some of the rows got lopped off. I have no explanation why this occurred other than software glitches that I didn't realize occurred.

Also, despite me creating a roster back then for the 40' AAR-type box cars equipped with Improved Dreadnaught ends used from 1948 to 1954 (the "r+3-4" version with major corrugations in the shape of a rolling pin as they've previously been described), that roster didn't make it to the STMFC web site. Yet another roster not on the STMFC covers the cars I wrote about in RP CYC Volume 29 having Carbuilder ends, similar to the 1948-1954 Improved Dreadnaught ends but lacking all but one intermediate minor corrugation.

I once thought that the PDF format was "the cure" to ensure commonality when reading a file using different platforms, but I've come to learn that not every PDF can be read the same on everyone's computer. This includes two Apple computers I own and continue to use for different purposes. There continues to be glitches found when opening the same file that occurs between PCs and Apple computers and by different versions of the Microsoft Excel software that I used to generate and maintain the lists.

More recently I've spent considerable time updating the rosters and expanding the columns of information to include more dimensional data, trucks, wheels, and even more distinctions in some of the design characteristics. So the task at hand is to replace the existing rosters with updated lists.

I've recently moved all of the box car rosters to my newer Apple iMac computer and have begun to generate PDFs for them in hopes that they can be read more universally on any computer since the software is more current. I will begin to forward the new PDFs to Rob Adams in hopes these new files can be uploaded to the STMFC for anyone to download and use.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Tim O'Connor
 

If you guys have access to magazines... here are some sample references

  40' 1939-1946 10'4"IH to 10'6"IH AAR boxcars                       
    Generally: 10 panel, 5/5 ends, W or S corner posts

    RMJ 3/1997 pp.24-29 Ed Hawkins article, photos SSW,UP,SOU,WABASH,SOO,RI,WP,NP
      Cars shown over time in various paint schemes

    RMJ 8/1996 pp.6-13 Ed Hawkins article, annotated roster of original owners (ladders,
       doors, height, corner posts, etc) & discussion of models, with photos CB&Q,ATSF,
       FW&D,IC,CMO,ERIE,SOO

  40' postwar 10'0"IH AAR boxcars

   RMJ 12/1989 pp.44-48,49-51 prototype and models info for NYC,UP,SP,EJ&E,CNJ,B&O,FNdeM
       with accompanying article on C&BT kitbash

  40' AAR postwar design AAR boxcars

   RMJ 10/1999 pp.43-51 Ed Hawkins' comprehensively covers postwar 10'4" to 10'8" boxcars
      with the 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught (rolling pin) ends -- photos DRGW,ATSF,NP,ERIE,MONON,
      CNW,IC,CB&Q,AA,A&WP

    MM 9/1990 pp.24-27 Todd Sullivan article, photo 1938 prototype ACFX #30000, drawings
      or 1948 standard design car, text, photos ACL,ATSF,DT&I,C&EI,ERIE,CMO,ITC,DL&W,NKP,
      RI,SERX,NJI&I,RDG,MKT

  40' ACF cars with "carbuilder" ends

    RMJ 10/1990 pp.52-58 Ed Hawkins' article, roster of cars built w/ rect panel roofs or
      diagonal panel roofs, detail notes for brakes/running boards/door size, many photos
      B&O,ACL,BAR,C&EI,CRR,ITC,KCS,WIF,RI,ATSF,MKT,BCK,TP&W -- plus paint/decals info

Tim O'


Fred Jansz
 

Thanks for the offer Todd, but I model July 1950.
Best regards,
Fred


Fred Jansz
 

Thank you Ed.
However, Q remains: which other roads had 40' lenght, 10'6" height, 4/4 W corner, 7' doors AAR BC's, built after the war but in service July 1950? Received a reply from a member stating:
not many:
DT&S 303049, built 2/48;
GTW 515000-515499, built 48 (marked "unconfirmed" on Hawkins list);
MKT 90080, built 11/49 (test car);
NKP 5000-5249, built 8/46;
NKP 5250-5499, built 9/46;
and the WP cars (I posess 3 of).

Since Ed confirmed a slight flaw in his list, there might be more..?
best regards,
Fred


Fred Jansz
 

Todd, yes they are the Mt Vernon built cars of 1947. However, I 'm not in for a sale or trade, I'm so sorry. BTW: Branchline is re-issuing them this spring.
cheers, Fred Jansz


Fred Jansz
 

For the those of you desperately seeking (some, not all) Branchline parts, here's a link I received from an Australian member (thanks David!), giving access to an otherwise meticulously hidden best kept secret the CIA could learn from:
http://shop.atlasrr.com/p-4064-ho-7-youngstown-doors-2.aspx

 

Use the blue arrows (top right) to browse, otherwise you'll be lost forever in this digital labyrint.
best regards, Fred Jansz


Bill Welch
 

My Bad Steve, I thought there were tables for the r/3/4 IDE, the 10' high post war, and the "banana taper" r/3/4 IDE ends on that site. I knew Ed had developed those tables and thought they were there now.

Bill Welch


Todd Sullivan
 

Thank to all who contributed to clearing up the questions about this PDF list and the boxcar data in it.

Thanks especially to Ed for being willing to compile such lists and doggedly pursuing solutions to the technical problems of posting them to the STMFC group intact.

Todd Sullivan
(who knows several other PC apps that are not always WYSIWYG)


Tim O'Connor
 


D&TS 3000-3049


Thank you Ed.
However, Q remains: which other roads had 40' lenght, 10'6" height, 4/4 W corner, 7' doors AAR BC's, built after the war but in service July 1950? Received a reply from a member stating:
not many:
DT&S 303049, built 2/48;
GTW 515000-515499, built 48 (marked "unconfirmed" on Hawkins list);
MKT 90080, built 11/49 (test car);
NKP 5000-5249, built 8/46;
NKP 5250-5499, built 9/46;
and the WP cars (I posess 3 of).

Since Ed confirmed a slight flaw in his list, there might be more..?
best regards,
Fred