Topics

duke sou gon

mike turner
 

In the Duke West Campus photos, there are several pictures (174, 353, 194, and others) of a SOU gon.
Is the end a 1/0 Dreadnought? :)
No, seriously though, what is that kind of end called? Thx.
Mike Turner
MP-Z35

Eric Hansmann
 

Mike,

Here's a good look at one of those Southern gondolas. This is image #174.
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19290301WC0174


Not a Dreadnaught end. This is a flat steel end with a horizontal press
steel stiffener riveted across the end plate. These pressed steel components
are similar to the side stakes.

It looks like this Southern gon has a 1924 build date.


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:51 PM
To: Yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] duke sou gon

In the Duke West Campus photos, there are several pictures (174, 353, 194,
and others) of a SOU gon.
Is the end a 1/0 Dreadnought? :)
No, seriously though, what is that kind of end called? Thx.
Mike Turner
MP-Z35

A&Y Dave in MD
 

My 1926 ORER is 3 years before the date in the photo. The build date in the
photo is 1924 and the number of 1,000 in the ORER fits with Wiley and
Wallace's "Southern Railway Handbook" where they state that the Southern had
1000 all steel low side gons of that type ordered. Checking the 1938 ORER
shows only 4 gone in 12 years; that is pretty good for hardworking gons
through the Depression era!



I'm sure the SRHA archives in Kennesaw have the data (probably drawings,
maybe the order documentation), but that info has not been published to
date. So I can't help you on the description of the end. It is pretty
cool. I doubt one rib without taper would have been named or marketed
Dreadnought, but it is evidence that the idea of ribs applied horizontally
to stiffen freight car ends is an evolutionary one.



Dave











From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 7:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] duke sou gon





Mike,

Here's a good look at one of those Southern gondolas. This is image #174.
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19290301WC0174

Not a Dreadnaught end. This is a flat steel end with a horizontal press
steel stiffener riveted across the end plate. These pressed steel components
are similar to the side stakes.

It looks like this Southern gon has a 1924 build date.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC@...>
[mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:51 PM
To: Yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] duke sou gon

In the Duke West Campus photos, there are several pictures (174, 353, 194,
and others) of a SOU gon.
Is the end a 1/0 Dreadnought? :)
No, seriously though, what is that kind of end called? Thx.
Mike Turner
MP-Z35

Todd Sullivan
 

I also had fun scanning through both the East and West parts of the collection.  There is an interesting NS boxcar #20111 (I think) with a scroll style herald that shows up in East side photos 123, 130 and 170.  I also was astonished at the variety of gondolas - CRRofNJ, D&H, PRR, Southern, and many more.  There are some interesting boxcars including a Clinchfield USRA S/S, a B&O M26, some NYC System and Erie 36' cars in the West part photos.  Photos 346, 351A and 347B.

Todd Sullivan

Tim O'Connor
 


Fascinating that in those days they just laid tracks right into the campus
to deliver the carloads of materials for the buildings... That would make an
amazing scene for a 1920's model railroad :-)

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0123
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0130
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260816EC0170
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0346
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0351a
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0347b

Zoom in on the image, then go to FULL SCREEN. Mouse-move the picture as you
like it, and hit PRINT SCREEN on your keyboard. Open PhotoShop and click on
"new from clipboard" (or the equivalent). It cracks me up that some web sites
think you can't copy pictures. If you can see it, you can copy it.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------

 I also had fun scanning through both the East and West parts of the collection.  There is an interesting NS boxcar #20111 (I think) with a scroll style herald that shows up in East side photos 123, 130 and 170.  I also was astonished at the variety of gondolas - CRRofNJ, D&H, PRR, Southern, and many more.  There are some interesting boxcars including a Clinchfield USRA S/S, a B&O M26, some NYC System and Erie 36' cars in the West part photos.  Photos 346, 351A and 347B.
 Todd Sullivan

Douglas Harding
 

I’m not surprised that tracks were laid, remember the time period. Back then temporary tracks were common, esp when move large heavy objects/loads.

 

As for saving a copy, you can just hit the download button and choose the Full-Rez jpg. Or at least that is the option I see and use.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 9:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] duke sou gon

 

 


Fascinating that in those days they just laid tracks right into the campus
to deliver the carloads of materials for the buildings... That would make an
amazing scene for a 1920's model railroad :-)

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0123
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0130
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260816EC0170
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0346
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0351a
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0347b

Zoom in on the image, then go to FULL SCREEN. Mouse-move the picture as you
like it, and hit PRINT SCREEN on your keyboard. Open PhotoShop and click on
"new from clipboard" (or the equivalent). It cracks me up that some web sites
think you can't copy pictures. If you can see it, you can copy it.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------

 I also had fun scanning through both the East and West parts of the collection.  There is an interesting NS boxcar #20111 (I think) with a scroll style herald that shows up in East side photos 123, 130 and 170.  I also was astonished at the variety of gondolas - CRRofNJ, D&H, PRR, Southern, and many more.  There are some interesting boxcars including a Clinchfield USRA S/S, a B&O M26, some NYC System and Erie 36' cars in the West part photos.  Photos 346, 351A and 347B.
 Todd Sullivan

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tim it also made a difference that Duke was a sort of "instant campus." Not
like the Ivy Leagues which were assembled over decades. If you are building
as large a project as that was, as quickly as they did, you could suffer the
"inconvenience" of having railroad tracks for a couple of years. No
students to get hurt or in the way as yet.



Schuyler






Fascinating that in those days they just laid tracks right into the campus
to deliver the carloads of materials for the buildings... That would make an
amazing scene for a 1920's model railroad :-)

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0123
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0130
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260816EC0170
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0346
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0351a
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0347b

Zoom in on the image, then go to FULL SCREEN. Mouse-move the picture as you
like it, and hit PRINT SCREEN on your keyboard. Open PhotoShop and click on
"new from clipboard" (or the equivalent). It cracks me up that some web
sites
think you can't copy pictures. If you can see it, you can copy it.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------

I also had fun scanning through both the East and West parts of the
collection. There is an interesting NS boxcar #20111 (I think) with a
scroll style herald that shows up in East side photos 123, 130 and 170. I
also was astonished at the variety of gondolas - CRRofNJ, D&H, PRR,
Southern, and many more. There are some interesting boxcars including a
Clinchfield USRA S/S, a B&O M26, some NYC System and Erie 36' cars in the
West part photos. Photos 346, 351A and 347B.
Todd Sullivan

Tim O'Connor
 


lol - didn't notice that! :-)

I guess I've been spending too much time on Flickr "owner has prevented
downloads of pictures"... Yeah, right.


As for saving a copy, you can just hit the download button and choose the Full-Rez jpg.
Or at least that is the option I see and use.
Doug Harding

Tim O'Connor
 


I guess - but I am also struck by the similarity (if not exact copies)
of the buildings to many other campus buildings I've seen. I wonder if
these buildings were offered as "kits" from the Sears catalog - just as
tens of thousands of craftsman homes were, at that time.

Tim



Tim it also made a difference that Duke was a sort of "instant campus."  Not
like the Ivy Leagues which were assembled over decades.  If you are building
as large a project as that was, as quickly as they did, you could suffer the
"inconvenience" of having railroad tracks for a couple of years.  No
students to get hurt or in the way as yet.

Schuyler

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for posting these photos:

That photo #130 contains a very interesting Seaboard ventilator 89819 - with the Murphy style ribs of the upper panel truncated on either side of the vents. Cool.

Rob Kirkham


https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0123
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0130
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260816EC0170
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0346
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0351a
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0347b

Zoom in on the image, then go to FULL SCREEN. Mouse-move the picture as you like it, and hit PRINT SCREEN on your keyboard. Open PhotoShop and click on "new from clipboard" (or the equivalent). It cracks me up that some web sites think you can't copy pictures. If you can see it, you can copy it.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------

I also had fun scanning through both the East and West parts of the collection. There is an interesting NS boxcar #20111 (I think) with a scroll style herald that shows up in East side photos 123, 130 and 170. I also was astonished at the variety of gondolas - CRRofNJ, D&H, PRR, Southern, and many more. There are some interesting boxcars including a Clinchfield USRA S/S, a B&O M26, some NYC System and Erie 36' cars in the West part photos. Photos 346, 351A and 347B.
Todd Sullivan









------------------------------------
Posted by: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

It's just a flat plate with a stiffening member. Low side gons like these were a Southern steam age signature car as much so as the 36' SU boxcars and were widely used for stone and sand as well as pig iron traffic


From memory these cars were built by Pullman about 1924 and extensively rebuilt just after the end of WW2; the rebuilds were the subject of a resin kit by Smokey Mountain. The rebuild has 11 panel sides in place of 10 and dreadnaught ends.


The original cars look very similar to cars built by ACF in the late 30s which  were the subject of a Speedwitch kit.  I haven't had the chance to examine Ted's resin to see whether resin-wrangling is feasible to make the Pullman-built cars


Aidrian


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Mike Turner yardcoolie1968@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, 13 February 2017 12:51 p.m.
To: Yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] duke sou gon
 
 

In the Duke West Campus photos, there are several pictures (174, 353, 194, and others) of a SOU gon.
Is the end a 1/0 Dreadnought? :)
No, seriously though, what is that kind of end called? Thx.
Mike Turner
MP-Z35

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim and friends,

I would like to add that the Duke site has a download button right above the photos. Hit this and you get a choice of several sizes. Then save to your computer.

Some archives really don't want you to copy their photos. Obviously Duke is making them public. I suspect they want a fee for publication, or at least permission, but that's a different issue. For personal use there should be no problem with downloads.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 2/12/17 10:32 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Fascinating that in those days they just laid tracks right into the campus
to deliver the carloads of materials for the buildings... That would make an
amazing scene for a 1920's model railroad :-)

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0123
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0130
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260816EC0170
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0346
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0351a
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0347b

Zoom in on the image, then go to FULL SCREEN. Mouse-move the picture as you
like it, and hit PRINT SCREEN on your keyboard. Open PhotoShop and click on
"new from clipboard" (or the equivalent). It cracks me up that some web sites
think you can't copy pictures. If you can see it, you can copy it.

Tim O'Connor


Eric Hansmann
 

Rob,

The first Seaboard ventilated box car (XV) you noted in photo #130 is a V9 class car built in the early 1920s. Here's the photo link.

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0130


The Seaboard XV car in photo #170 is an earlier car. While it had a Murphy corrugated steel end, it seems to have a fishbelly side sill common to a series of Seaboard XV cars built in the Teens.
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260816EC0170


A similar Seaboard XV can be seen in this photo behind a Central of Georgia XV car..

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260601EC0116


That image will be helpful to apply 1926 era lettering to a Central of Georgia XV resin kit I have in my stash.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On February 12, 2017 at 10:36 PM "Robert kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Thanks for posting these photos:

That photo #130 contains a very interesting Seaboard ventilator 89819 - with the Murphy style ribs of the upper panel truncated on either side of the vents. Cool.

Rob Kirkham

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0123
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260615EC0130
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260816EC0170
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0346
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0351a
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19300503WC0347b

Zoom in on the image, then go to FULL SCREEN. Mouse-move the picture as you like it, and hit PRINT SCREEN on your keyboard. Open PhotoShop and click on "new from clipboard" (or the equivalent). It cracks me up that some web sites think you can't copy pictures. If you can see it, you can copy it.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------

I also had fun scanning through both the East and West parts of the collection. There is an interesting NS boxcar #20111 (I think) with a scroll style herald that shows up in East side photos 123, 130 and 170. I also was astonished at the variety of gondolas - CRRofNJ, D&H, PRR, Southern, and many more. There are some interesting boxcars including a Clinchfield USRA S/S, a B&O M26, some NYC System and Erie 36' cars in the West part photos. Photos 346, 351A and 347B.
Todd Sullivan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Posted by: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...>

------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

------------------------------------

Posted by: Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...>

------------------------------------

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Dave Lawler
 

I seem to remember seeing some photos of a temporary rail line used to bring materials for the  construction of the Biltmore mansion at Asheville, NC.
Dave Lawler

Donald B. Valentine
 

   There is also a way that tracks are sometimes removed from a campus as well, Tim. The next 
time you are in Durham, NH find Demerrit Hall next to Thompson with its bell tower. The double
tracked main of the B&M used to come right through were the front door to Demerrit is now located,
across Main St. and down what is now Strafford Ave. before a line straightening project in the late
1920's moved it to the present location 150 yds. or so to the west. Just one of the things we 
surveying students learned back in the 1960's with an old timer like Pop Dawson for a C.E. prof.

My best, Don Valentine

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Dave and Mike,

1962 general arrangement drawings for the 119XXX series can be found here: http://southernmodeler.info/SRrollingstock/SR_FRT_CAR_DGMS_1962.pdf . It is drawing #58.

The drawing shows Dreadnought ends. I don't know if there were exceptions that still had the horizontal stiffener, or the cars were all rebuilt at some point.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 2/12/17 7:45 PM, 'David Bott' dbott@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

My 1926 ORER is 3 years before the date in the photo. The build date in the
photo is 1924 and the number of 1,000 in the ORER fits with Wiley and
Wallace's "Southern Railway Handbook" where they state that the Southern had
1000 all steel low side gons of that type ordered. Checking the 1938 ORER
shows only 4 gone in 12 years; that is pretty good for hardworking gons
through the Depression era!

I'm sure the SRHA archives in Kennesaw have the data (probably drawings,
maybe the order documentation), but that info has not been published to
date. So I can't help you on the description of the end. It is pretty
cool. I doubt one rib without taper would have been named or marketed
Dreadnought, but it is evidence that the idea of ribs applied horizontally
to stiffen freight car ends is an evolutionary one.

Dave

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 7:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] duke sou gon

Mike,

Here's a good look at one of those Southern gondolas. This is image #174.
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19290301WC0174

Not a Dreadnaught end. This is a flat steel end with a horizontal press
steel stiffener riveted across the end plate. These pressed steel components
are similar to the side stakes.

It looks like this Southern gon has a 1924 build date.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:51 PM
To: Yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] duke sou gon

In the Duke West Campus photos, there are several pictures (174, 353, 194,
and others) of a SOU gon.
Is the end a 1/0 Dreadnought? :)
No, seriously though, what is that kind of end called? Thx.
Mike Turner
MP-Z35




Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Garth


That's the post-war P-S rebuild that Jim King did in resin. I'm not sure how much was rebuilt and how much was new; given the differences between before and after I strongly suspect that the rebuild status was more to comply with an accounting definition than an engineering one. 


There was a small scale reprint of the drawings of the cars when new in back issue of "Ties" magazine from the SRHA; I don't have the   issue handy I am afraid, but there is an index on the SRHA website


Aidrian


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 February 2017 3:09 p.m.
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] duke sou gon
 
 

Dave and Mike,

1962 general arrangement drawings for the 119XXX series can be found here: http://southernmodeler.info/SRrollingstock/SR_FRT_CAR_DGMS_1962.pdf . It is drawing #58.

The drawing shows Dreadnought ends. I don't know if there were exceptions that still had the horizontal stiffener, or the cars were all rebuilt at some point.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 2/12/17 7:45 PM, 'David Bott' dbott@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

My 1926 ORER is 3 years before the date in the photo. The build date in the
photo is 1924 and the number of 1,000 in the ORER fits with Wiley and
Wallace's "Southern Railway Handbook" where they state that the Southern had
1000 all steel low side gons of that type ordered. Checking the 1938 ORER
shows only 4 gone in 12 years; that is pretty good for hardworking gons
through the Depression era!

I'm sure the SRHA archives in Kennesaw have the data (probably drawings,
maybe the order documentation), but that info has not been published to
date. So I can't help you on the description of the end. It is pretty
cool. I doubt one rib without taper would have been named or marketed
Dreadnought, but it is evidence that the idea of ribs applied horizontally
to stiffen freight car ends is an evolutionary one.

Dave

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 7:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] duke sou gon

Mike,

Here's a good look at one of those Southern gondolas. This is image #174.
https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19290301WC0174

Not a Dreadnaught end. This is a flat steel end with a horizontal press
steel stiffener riveted across the end plate. These pressed steel components
are similar to the side stakes.

It looks like this Southern gon has a 1924 build date.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:51 PM
To: Yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] duke sou gon

In the Duke West Campus photos, there are several pictures (174, 353, 194,
and others) of a SOU gon.
Is the end a 1/0 Dreadnought? :)
No, seriously though, what is that kind of end called? Thx.
Mike Turner
MP-Z35