Accurail 36 foot boxcars
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Greg Martin
Schuyler sssshhhhhh!
Greg
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean In a message dated 2/20/2017 2:35:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:
Bruce, don’t think we’re not thinking about this . . . |
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Daniel McConnachie <mcconnachie.daniel@...>
I can attest to Robert's ends. I model in S and the 7/8 ends have worked wonderfully for me. On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Robert kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Daniel McConnachie
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riverman_vt@...
And New England Rail Service has been looking at Wine ventilators for years, Doug. The trouble
is finding a toolmaker who will even consider the little devils at a cost that can be at least recovered from sales, never mind any consideration for "profit". Some of the Pullman Parts line ran into the same problem but when the item was needed to have a complete line it was done anyway. The Wine ventilators, not being a part of any line are another matter, but I'm still looking. I have someone who can do it if he would make up his mind to and give me a cost. It would get the most standard size of Wine vent in any case. My best, Don Valentine New England Rail Service, Inc. |
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Actually I’ve had good success with Shapeways ends and doors. I don’t have doors up in my public profile, but have multiple examples here on models. I do have some of the ends I’ve modelled : https://www.shapeways.com/shops/robs_cpr_model_parts
Rob
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 9:17 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars
On 2/20/2017 9:00 AM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
Wonder if a 3-D from Shapeways would work here. Might be too thin for Shapeways! -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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In addition to when and what, where can be important! I model Southern's Winston-Salem division in and around Greensboro where SOU, N&W, and C&O vents were relatively plentiful in 1934; at least according to conductor Snow's documentation. My thesis advisor told me that any conclusion should be accompanied by a statement "for whom and under what conditions" since always and everywhere rarely apply! Thanks for the help Bill. Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone On Feb 20, 2017, at 4:57 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Ray Breyer
Very true Bill: this list, although it seems to have a narrow focus, actually spans several technological "hard markers", as well as several important "drop dead dates". We all have to be cognizant of all of these factors when looking into building our model fleets, and when talking to other rail historians about what fits in where, and how. And we all have to support each others eras of interest, even if we don't model them! Even those modern guys, I suppose...... Ray Breyer Elgin, IL From: "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars
Ray, I was talking about my time period to remind people of what has been done. Actually I am supportive and will be sending Dave Bott and you a couple of photos of Southern Vents it sounds like you do not have. My point is that is not helpful to generalize. While in the pre-1930 era Southern's Vent fleet was important in mine it was nothing. I think it is as important to talk about "when" as well as "what" in many cases. Bill Welch
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Bill Welch
Ray, I was talking about my time period to remind people of what has been done. Actually I am supportive and will be sending Dave Bott and you a couple of photos of Southern Vents it sounds like you do not have.
My point is that is not helpful to generalize. While in the pre-1930 era Southern's Vent fleet was important in mine it was nothing. I think it is as important to talk about "when" as well as "what" in many cases. Bill Welch |
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Ray Breyer
>>Actually except for the L&N's vents, all the rest of the major's Vents have been covered by resin— >>CofG, ACL, SAL. Other owners—N&W, C&O, Southern—numbers too inconsequential to interest me. >>Bill Welch Hi Bill, Maybe to you and a 1955 focus, but do let someone throw us pre-WWII modelers a bone once in a while! In the grand scheme of things, these Southern ventilated cars that we're talking about were a very big deal. The Southern's 120000-123399 series was built in 1914, and lasted a LONG time: 3,057 in 1930, 348 in 1945, 60 in 1950, and 18 cars through 1957. The Depression gutted the Southern's ventilated roster (they had 8,599 cars in 1930), but for pre-Depression era modelers these ventilated cars are more important than some oddball tank car! Ray Breyer Elgin, IL |
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Andy Carlson
Here is a response from Byron Rose (I originally did not mention him by name as he wrote me a personal email and I did not wish to mention his identity unless he complied). I don't have any real thoughts or issues about this car, as it is too early to be of interest to me. Furthermore, being a model with molded on detail removes it from a certain level of seriousness. I shared the photos linked earlier last week with Byron, as he is not a member of this list. I did not tell him about the earlier discussions made many months ago, as I was not really interested in the car. Byron was not forwarded any of those earlier discussions. I do respect Byron's knowledge on freight car construction and there are undoubtably many others sharing this respect. Hi again, Andy,
You know me, never wanting to back away from a verbal
fight. Some will say that's what got me thrown off the freight car
list. Of course, that's about as accurate as as the assessment of
those who obviously did not read my entire statement, unless, of course, you
misquoted me. What I said was, quote: What's there is a flat
smooth plane (flush with the face of the wood siding) with some rivets
showing, which is a construction I have never seen in real life.
Unquote.
Yes, cars from that era did have steel end sills below
the wood siding, but the were never as I described them above. They
always, at least as I remember and confirmed by looking thru my copies of the
1916 CBD and 1919 CBD/C, unfortunately my copy of the 1913 CBD is still at
the printer). Every car photo and/or drawing shows either an applied steel
channel, or the wood sheathing applied OVER the flat steel surface below it,
creating a very noticeable 3/4 inch +/- step. The model in discussion
shows neither condition.
This is presented as general information for the
unwashed masses: all closed body railroad car construction must
make at least an attempt to keep rainwater out of the bowels of the car being
built. Wood siding must overlap steel construction to
achieve that; where the reverse occurs, the shelf must be forever sealed
and re-sealed. Arguments of those points will
be welcomed.
And you may quote me on all of
above.
B. S. Rose, RPA
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RE Ventilator door: I recall that New England Rail Services currently sells a ½ door conversion kit for Accurail 4000, 4100, 4200, & 4300 series boxcars. A simple overlay with a few detail parts. Could not a similar kit be created to add a ventilator door to the new 36 car body? I agree with others a resin part may be the way to go.
Doug Harding
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Ray Breyer
Hi Dave, Please send any data you have on these Southern vents to our mutual friend Dave Campbell. I've been trying to convince him to create some printed parts for exactly these same cars. I have photos and ORER numbers (which are absolutely huge before 1950). There's also interest for a kit of this nature from a new-ish RPM meet as a shake & take. (Dave already has Southern decal art drawn up). For everyone else's information: Dave Campbell is a 1920s era modeler who's also EXCELLENT with 3D CAD work and with getting Shapeways to actually pop out usable parts. Many of you are already using some of his parts in RCW tank car kits, and there are at least four full resin kits on the way based on his work (some of you saw his D&H Seleys at Lisle last year). As "private stock", I have printed and resin cast versions of his ventilated doors and ends for a USRA to FEC 40' ventilated boxcar, so parts for a Southern ventilated box will be "simple" for him to create, and will be reliable, usable parts! Now all we need to do is find a manufacturer who's interested in producing, stocking and selling conversion kits, rather than full cars...... Ray Breyer Elgin, IL From: "David Bott dbott@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars I'm trying to plan this with a Southern vent that matches. A resin door can be cast as an add-on. The end vent either requires a cut and insert or a cast replacement. The cost in $ and time of a couple doors and ends balances nicely against the compromises in fidelity compared to a full resin kit. And I can model vents for multiple roads more easily using Accurail models as the base cars. Dave Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone
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Tony Thompson
Eric Hansmann wrote:
Ray Breyer's summaries of the prototype histories show that an awful lot of owners of these cars had drawn them down to zero or nearly zero by 1950. My own viewpoint would be that any modeling year after 1945 will have to limit how many of these 36-foot cars you can justify. (I'm thinking Gilbert-Nelson when I say "justify," since pre-1950 survivals were in many cases a couple of hundred cars, or less.) There are some exceptions, to be sure. For my 1953 modeling year, the Accurail 1300-series Mopac cars seem a clear choice, maybe the DL&W 1400s. Of course anyone can choose to create any car fleet they want. I'm only talking about making systematic choices on a prototype basis. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Eric Hansmann
I really like Dennis’ idea of an etched metal piece with the bars on the back of a resin frame.
The smaller end vents can be done with clapboard siding fit into smaller openings and some wire used for the shutter bar to open and close those. This depends upon the specific vent design, of course.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:41 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars
I'm trying to plan this with a Southern vent that matches. A resin door can be cast as an add-on. The end vent either requires a cut and insert or a cast replacement.
The cost in $ and time of a couple doors and ends balances nicely against the compromises in fidelity compared to a full resin kit. And I can model vents for multiple roads more easily using Accurail models as the base cars.
Dave
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I'm trying to plan this with a Southern vent that matches. A resin door can be cast as an add-on. The end vent either requires a cut and insert or a cast replacement. The cost in $ and time of a couple doors and ends balances nicely against the compromises in fidelity compared to a full resin kit. And I can model vents for multiple roads more easily using Accurail models as the base cars. Dave Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:12 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Schuyler Larrabee
Bruce, don’t think we’re not thinking about this . . .
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Schuyler I have three more words to add… Shake and Take! Dennis and Accurail have been amazing supporters of the Shake and Take clinics over the years and this new 36' car is just LOADED with possible applications, such as the ventilated cars. I can certainly see it as fodder for a number of fun conversion projects!! Regards Bruce Smith Auburn, Al On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:43 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote : There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler. Ventilated cars There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years. Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX ===================== I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit. Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car. Dennis Storzek |
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Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 2/20/2017 9:00 AM, John Barry
northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
so a simple add on in the closed position would work for me. Wonder if a 3-D from Shapeways would work here. Might be too
thin for Shapeways! -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS |
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I have three more words to add… Shake and Take!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dennis and Accurail have been amazing supporters of the Shake and Take clinics over the years and this new 36' car is just LOADED with possible applications, such as the ventilated cars. I can certainly see it as fodder for a number of fun conversion
projects!!
Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al
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Bill Welch
Actually except for the L&N's vents, all the rest of the major's Vents have been covered by resin—CofG, ACL, SAL. Other owners—N&W, C&O, Southern—numbers too inconsequential to interest me.
Re: Don's comments believe or not I have my possibilities firmly in hand and know exactly what I am doing. Bill Welch |
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Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Dennis, Maybe what we need is a conversion mini-kit,
or several, since just about every railroad's ventilator cars
were unique. Still, there might be some common parts like Wine
ventilators that could be mass produced. Most of these cars had some type of end ventilator, and Wine ventilators were among the most common, though they came in a number of distinctive types. Wine ventilators were also applied to the sides of some cars, including 40' steel types. C&O and Seaboard come to mind. These could be done as thin resin parts, or perhaps Tichy or somebody might tool us up some in styrene. I remember the old Ambroid ACL kit came with a delicately milled wooden door frame with very fine grooves cut into the back side. Fine wire was inserted into these grooves to make the bars. The frame would be a natural for resin today. Yours Aye,
Garth Groff On 2/20/17 11:43 AM,
destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
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John Barry
Dennis, I concur that as an out the door kit, it won't fit your business model or the majority of the public's expectations from your line. However, it is an opportunity for some enterprising soul to add a vent door aftermarket item to convert your kits to vents. Even I would buy or build a pair of VMs based on a photo I've seen of a pair of ACL VMs in San Francisco near my era. I think they had been used as boxes with the vents closed, so a simple add on in the closed position would work for me. John John Barry ATSF North Bay Lines Golden Gates & Fast Freights Lovettsville, VA 707-490-9696 PO Box 44736 Washington, DC 20026-4736 From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:43 AM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars ---In STMFC@..., wrote : There are two words that should get the
blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler. Ventilated cars There were many 36-foot ventilated box
cars in the 1945-1952 years. Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX ===================== I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit. Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car. Dennis Storzek |
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