Topics

Sand Loads in HO?


Tim O'Connor
 


A friend of mine collected extremely fine sand dust from a rock cut
off Interstate 495 where it would blow and collect there. There is real
sand everywhere, and it makes excellent scale sand loads! (He did the
same with iron oxide flakes in a junk yard - fabulous for scrap loads.)

But, yeah, I agree with Elden if you can find AR&M products, they are very
very good. He sells grades from chickpea sizes down to pigment-grade dust.

Tim O'Connor



Jim

Arizona Rock & Mineral (and others) has many grades and colors of sand.  I have used same for loads, loco sand on my ready tracks, and at the sandhouse.

Elden Gatwood


Richard Townsend
 

I have used diatomaceous earth, which you can get cheaply from many hardware stores and pet stores.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:12 am
Subject: [STMFC] Sand Loads in HO?

 
Hi all,

What product do you use for making an HO scale sand load
in a gondola? I don't want to use any kind of food product
(such as flour).
I'm willing to color it with paint and washes.

The only commercial product I'm finding is the one by
Motrak. That one might work - but it is white and would
require color changes. And all of the sources I've been
able to find want as much or more to ship it as the load
costs!

This is to represent "sand being delivered to an engine
facility for RR use such as for locomotives" - the sand
seen at a sand tower. It will go in an Intermountain
ATSF Caswell gondola (if that makes a difference).
- Jim B.


Peter Hall
 

Another product you might consider is Sanded Grout.  It’s very fine, and comes in several useful colors.

Thanks
Pete




On Mar 6, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


I have used diatomaceous earth, which you can get cheaply from many hardware stores and pet stores.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:12 am
Subject: [STMFC] Sand Loads in HO?

 
Hi all,

What product do you use for making an HO scale sand load
in a gondola? I don't want to use any kind of food product
(such as flour).
I'm willing to color it with paint and washes.

The only commercial product I'm finding is the one by
Motrak. That one might work - but it is white and would
require color changes. And all of the sources I've been
able to find want as much or more to ship it as the load
costs!

This is to represent "sand being delivered to an engine
facility for RR use such as for locomotives" - the sand
seen at a sand tower. It will go in an Intermountain
ATSF Caswell gondola (if that makes a difference).
- Jim B.



Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think I can "go
forward" with this project ... except I'd like to know the
answers to the following 'extra credit' questions ...

Does anyone have any idea where the Santa Fe sourced
their sand for facilities in Northern California?
Or even a clue what color sand was used by the ATSF in
the same area?
- Jim B.


Dave Parker
 

I have thought about this more in terms of scenery, but the same principles apply to loads.

If you are a soil scientist, sand particles range in diameter from 0.05 to 2.0 mm.   A good starting point would be ~1.0 mm for typical dune sand.  In HO scale that is 0.011 mm, very fine particles indeed.  The finest US Standard sieve size that you will commonly see is 400 mesh = 0.037 mm, or about 3.2 mm in HO scale (= fine gravel).

IOW, a prototypically correct load should be extremely fine, maybe like flour.  It really shouldn't have much in the way of noticeable texture when viewed with the naked eye.  I have seen several layouts, and a few carloads, where what is supposed to be sand is actually a bunch of tennis balls in HO scale.

As always, YMMV.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Monday, March 6, 2017 3:37 PM, "Peter Hall petehall6369@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Another product you might consider is Sanded Grout.  It’s very fine, and comes in several useful colors.

Thanks
Pete




On Mar 6, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


I have used diatomaceous earth, which you can get cheaply from many hardware stores and pet stores.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:12 am
Subject: [STMFC] Sand Loads in HO?

 
Hi all,

What product do you use for making an HO scale sand load
in a gondola? I don't want to use any kind of food product
(such as flour).
I'm willing to color it with paint and washes.

The only commercial product I'm finding is the one by
Motrak. That one might work - but it is white and would
require color changes. And all of the sources I've been
able to find want as much or more to ship it as the load
costs!

This is to represent "sand being delivered to an engine
facility for RR use such as for locomotives" - the sand
seen at a sand tower. It will go in an Intermountain
ATSF Caswell gondola (if that makes a difference).
- Jim B.





John Barry
 

Jim,

Covered in my blog: Locomotive Sand at Richmond

and 



Northern California Santa Fe locomotive sand was less likely to be carried in Caswells than in SP G-50-10s and 12s for which there is photographic evidence.  It looked pretty white.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 4:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sand Loads in HO?

 
Hi,

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think I can "go
forward" with this project ... except I'd like to know the
answers to the following 'extra credit' questions ...

Does anyone have any idea where the Santa Fe sourced
their sand for facilities in Northern California?
Or even a clue what color sand was used by the ATSF in
the same area?
- Jim B.



Dave Lawler
 

Get a clean, dry plastic peanut butter, mayonnaise or similar jar. Obtain an old nylon stocking from your wife, girlfriend or “significant other”.
Pour a bunch of dry sand in the jar. Stretch and rubber band a piece of the stocking over the mouth of the jar the start shaking the jar over a kitty liter box.
You’ll end up with sand dust that looks pretty good as HO scale sand.  Simple. Works for me.
Best regards,
Dave Lawler



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Bill Decker
 

Dave Parker,

Thanks for bringing soil science into this discussion.  That properly scopes the model size www seek.  This sounds like a case for classic "zip texture"--plaster dusted onto a wetted form.  The plaster might have just a hint of color (ochre?).  It is possible Arizona Rock might have something so fine, as well, but most of us have plaster around.

Bill Decker


Aley, Jeff A
 

Bill,

 

                Zip texturing sounds like a good idea for something as fine as sand!  I have even considered it for the fine cinders that seem to cover the ground at steam-era engine terminals.  Old photos show the texture there is also very fine (though not as fine as sand).

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 8:22 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sand Loads in HO?

 

 

Dave Parker,

 

Thanks for bringing soil science into this discussion.  That properly scopes the model size www seek.  This sounds like a case for classic "zip texture"--plaster dusted onto a wetted form.  The plaster might have just a hint of color (ochre?).  It is possible Arizona Rock might have something so fine, as well, but most of us have plaster around.

 

Bill Decker


Larry Buell
 

Sorry about the late reply; the Santa Fe used white sand in their locomotives, at least on the Eastern Lines, in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s.  It was very fine as though it came from a beach.

Larry Buell