Stock car interiors


Jared Harper
 

Were the interiors of stock cars painted or were they natural wood?


Jared Harper


tnbirke <tnbirke@...>
 

The one on display in Pawhuska, OK had an unpainted interior. The interior edges of the slats are rounded over with what appears to have been a router or shaper.
Tom Birkett. Bartlesville,  OK





Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "harperandbrown@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 3/7/17 12:03 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

Were the interiors of stock cars painted or were they natural wood?


Jared Harper


Douglas Harding
 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Armand Premo
 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 



Douglas Harding
 

Whitewash, by definition, is a mixture of slaked lime and water, and yes was used in place of paint. Lime was also used as a disinfectant. After cleaning, stock cars were typically disinfected using lime. Further the CP & CN (and others) painted the lower parts of their stockcars white to enforce the idea that their cars were clean and free of disease.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 


John Barry
 

What's the difference?  The directions I followed to white wash the trunks of my fruit trees called for dissolving lime in water to make a thin paste.  It was a common California practice seen in the orchards that provided the fruit loaded in steam era refrigerator cars.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups com"
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 
That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield


On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.
 
The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.
 
Doug Harding
 



Eric Hansmann
 

Doug,

When did this practice begin? I just finished a UP stock car detailed for my 1926 era. I knew about the lime disinfectant but am uncertain on when the practice started.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


On March 8, 2017 at 6:39 AM "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



Whitewash, by definition, is a mixture of slaked lime and water, and yes was used in place of paint. Lime was also used as a disinfectant. After cleaning, stock cars were typically disinfected using lime. Further the CP & CN (and others) painted the lower parts of their stockcars white to enforce the idea that their cars were clean and free of disease.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 



Brad Andonian
 

Doug,

Would you be willing to add this image to the files section?    Sure would be swell to see.

Thanks,

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Douglas Harding
 

Eric, I have no idea.

Clean stock cars were a concern and the matter was discussed at the June 1897 monthly meeting of Central Association of Railroad Officers, Indianapolis Division:

Papers received from Secretary O. G. Fetter were read in relation to practice of cleaning empty stock cars before delivery to connections.

After hearing from all lines represented, it was found that the receiving road did not require the delivering road to clean the cars. This, however, is independent of the practice of Indianapolis Union Stock Yards Company, which cleans and disinfects all cars before loading with export shipments.

 

A 1956 UP Livestock Shipping Guide and Directory has specifications about Cleaning and Disinfecting Cars as well as Railroad Owned or Operated Stock Yards, Pens, Etc. “must be done whenever it is necessary to comply with federal, state, county, municipal or Canadian laws and/or sanitary regulations…” But does not mention lime per see.

 

From notes culled from online discussions:

From ORER

Note P.—Resolution adopted November 18, 1914.

WHEREAS. In view of the general necessity of cleaning and disinfecting stock cars in accordance with the orders of the United States Department of Agriculture and other authorities, it is desirable that the railways prescribe uniformly the rates for such cleaning and disinfecting as have been approved by the Interstate Commerce Commission in case No. 6495, New Orleans Live Stock Exchange vs. Louisville & Nashville Ry. et. al., therefore be it Resolved, That, when necessary, on account of Federal. State, County or Municipal regulations, to clean and disinfect stock cars, the charge will be $2.50 per car when single deck and $4 per car when double deck. These charges will be assessed against the shipment in addition to the regular freight or other charges for the transportation thereof.

 

 

I don't know about the regulations in the U.S., but in Canada, government regulations required the use of lime as a disinfectant in stockcars. This was usually applied by spraying, and as you can imagine, made quite a mess. Eventually, both the CPR and CNR opted to paint the lower carsides white, which at least made them look a little neater. This also necessitated moving the reporting marks and dimensional data higher on the carside. Here's a picture of a similar car on my layout.

 

 

 

The lime disinfectant wash on the Canadian cars may look "overdone" in part because the bottom two thirds of the car was painted white. It would be easier to tell how much was actual lime if the car was a darker colour.

 

The Canadian rules concerning livestock were quite stringent, and included specifications about how they were to be switched (usually first!), how often they had to be unloaded, rested, watered & fed, and so on. Many stations had cattle pens not because cattle were shipped from there, but because "through cattle" had to be unloaded and rested there.

 

Andrew

 

 

You spray the lime where the *ahem* non-white fertilizer *ahem* is..

 

 

It would appear a look for government regulations would provide the answer, but I think you are safe to assume that lime was used as a disinfectant in your era.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

Doug,

When did this practice begin? I just finished a UP stock car detailed for my 1926 era. I knew about the lime disinfectant but am uncertain on when the practice started.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

On March 8, 2017 at 6:39 AM "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


Whitewash, by definition, is a mixture of slaked lime and water, and yes was used in place of paint. Lime was also used as a disinfectant. After cleaning, stock cars were typically disinfected using lime. Further the CP & CN (and others) painted the lower parts of their stockcars white to enforce the idea that their cars were clean and free of disease.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

 


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Someone mentioned "steam cleaning". I worked in a salmon cannery in
the early 60's and one of my duties was on the clean up crew after the
canning line was done for the day. We had long hoses with quick
disconnects that allowed us to move them to more than one source.
The steam in the hose came from the boiler house. The pressure
supplied plus the diameter of the 3 foot long steel "wands" on the
end of the hose made for pressures that created a steam jet that
would easily reach out 30 feet or more before it dissipated into
water. We put it right up against locations on the canning machines
that need more pressure. Nothing more was done to clean the
machines (the parts that came in direct contact with the fish
were stainless).

Please remember that after the fish is in the can it goes into a
"retort" which brings the racks of cans up to temperature and
holds it there long enough to kill -any- germs that might be in
the can.
Both before and after the cans went in the retort they were
washed clean of any debris that might have been on the
outside.

It seems reasonable that steam cleaning of stock cars was
pretty much the rule - the lime (white wash) was added to make
certain that anything that wasn't gotten out by the steam was
killed. You don't want the animals to get sick from the car!

I model my stock cars by using a thin wash of white acrylic
on the lower levels (say about the bottom quarter) and then
apply some additional grime with more at the bottom of
the car than at the top. And some 'dribbles' of a dark
charcoal color with some brown in it that comes out of
the bottom and down the sills.
Of course, if you aren't also adding the animals inside
(and "weathering" them) then you really don't want the
'heavy dirt' that represents flowing body deposits ... *G*
I've also experimented with using flat cut outs of animals
and it is surprisingly effective (inside a stock car). Sure
wish I could find some that are two sided - what I've
done for that is to print the pics twice and reverse one.

- Jim B.


Douglas Harding
 

Brad per the STMFC list rules I am not able to post the photos because I do not own the copyright nor do I have permission from the owner. Most of the images I have, I found on the internet. Here are a couple of links:

http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-129-1939-SOUTHERN.JPG

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/273365.jpg

 

Google is your friend, use it.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:31 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

Doug,

 

Would you be willing to add this image to the files section?    Sure would be swell to see.

 

Thanks,

Brad Andonian 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Nelson Moyer
 

Is that car cement on the floor?

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 12:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors


Brad per the STMFC list rules I am not able to post the photos because I do not own the copyright nor do I have permission from the owner. Most of the images I have, I found on the internet. Here are a couple of links:
http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-129-1939-SOUTHERN.JPG
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/273365.jpg

Google is your friend, use it.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:31 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors



Doug,

Would you be willing to add this image to the files section? Sure would be swell to see.

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad<https://yho.com/footer0>

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@...<mailto:doug.harding@...> [STMFC] <STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>> wrote:


Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.



The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>


Tim O'Connor
 


And I always thought "whitewash" was derived from MILK! :-)

Tim O'


What's the difference?  The directions I followed to white wash ...
John Barry


 That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield


tnbirke <tnbirke@...>
 

The Santa Fe and MILW used sand for "bedding."
Tom Birkett,  Bartlesville, OK



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Nelson Moyer npmoyer@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 3/8/17 12:52 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

Is that car cement on the floor?

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 12:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors


Brad per the STMFC list rules I am not able to post the photos because I do not own the copyright nor do I have permission from the owner. Most of the images I have, I found on the internet. Here are a couple of links:
http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-129-1939-SOUTHERN.JPG
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/273365.jpg

Google is your friend, use it.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:31 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors



Doug,

Would you be willing to add this image to the files section? Sure would be swell to see.

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad<https://yho.com/footer0>

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@...<mailto:doug.harding@...> [STMFC] <STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>> wrote:


Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.



The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bruce Smith
 

Sure looks like it, and notice the "scuppers" along the floor for drainage as well.

The photo is a builder's (Ralston) photo of Southern 45650, October, 1938. The caption says that the floor is "concrete as wood wouldn't have lasted very long under the livestock". I think that statement is incorrect on multiple counts. I'm guessing the floor was "cement tile" and was then sprayed with something very much like car cement. As for wood floors, they work fine under livestock.

The parent site is http://www.columbusrailroads.com/ which is has some pretty nice resources.

Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Nelson Moyer npmoyer@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 12:52 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

Is that car cement on the floor?



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 12:05 PM

To: STMFC@...

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors





Brad per the STMFC list rules I am not able to post the photos because I do not own the copyright nor do I have permission from the owner. Most of the images I have, I found on the internet. Here are a couple of links:

http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-129-1939-SOUTHERN.JPG

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/273365.jpg



Google is your friend, use it.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]

Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:31 AM

To: STMFC@...

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors







Doug,



Would you be willing to add this image to the files section? Sure would be swell to see.



Thanks,

Brad Andonian





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad<https://yho.com/footer0>



On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@...<mailto:doug.harding@...> [STMFC] <STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>> wrote:





Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.







The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.







Doug Harding



www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Tony Thompson
 

The Santa Fe and MILW used sand for "bedding."

   So did almost everyone. The shipper could choose, and I have heard that sand was preferred for hogs, as it stayed moist and helped them keep cool. Straw was the alternative. Bedding might be installed by the shipper, or by the railroad (the livestock waybill had a place to note who had done that job).

Tony Thompson




destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


And I always thought "whitewash" was derived from MILK! :-)

Tim O'

=======================
That's Casein or Milk paint. It's a mix of milk and lime. The casein in milk forms a somewhat waterproof binder, and the lime keeps the casein from mildewing.

But whitewash is supposed to wash off; that's how it stays white, as the rain continually washes off the outer surface. This was an advantage in stockcars, too, as all the stains just washed off with the next cleaning.

Dennis Storzek


Douglas Harding
 

From a message posted by Guy Wiber back on 4-16-2001

 

The ICC ruled that bedding was essential for the proper shipping of live stock.  The carriers were required to furnish proper bedding usually consisting of; sand, straw, hay or cinders.  The carriers were required to provide the bedding for "reasonable" applications and fees (circa 1940) were charged to shippers beginning at $1.00 per car.  Subsequent changes of bedding for the convenience of the carrier were to be covered by the carrier.  Many stock yard companies supplied and charged a fee to the carriers for bedding materials.  These charges were (in turn) billed to the shipper.     

 

The ARA/AAR pamphlet titled: METHODS FOR LOADING AND HANDLING LIVE STOCK was first issued in 1925, several revisions were made from that year through (at least) 1952.  Many of the recommendations confirm practices witnessed by Larry J. and the Southern RR rules cited by Jack Wyatt.  The following are summaries from within:

 

1) Sand bedding is the most satisfactory for live stock in warm weather--an even spread of 1 inch or more must be placed on the car floor; more may be desirable for horses.  In cold weather, hay or straw must be added and cars for hog loading must have the hay or straw bedding piled about a foot high

around the sides and ends of car to act as a wind breaker.  Not less than one and one-half bales must be used per deck and in extreme weather at least two.  Bales to approximate in weight 200 lbs.

 

2) In time of extreme weather the sides and ends of the cars should be papered or battened in order to provide additional protection while allowing for ventilation.

 

Hogs were the most temperamental of the livestock types to ship.  Hogs don't sweat, and must rest quietly in order to fully digest feed.  The application of hay for bedding down was essential, and while being shipped in warm weather the bedding was required to be watered down.  It was also recommended

for cooling that block ice be supplied; placed directly on the car floor or suspended (in burlap bags) from the car ceiling.  In cold weather hogs will bunch together to stay warm if not supplied with proper warm bedding material.  If recently fed, this bunching would cause excessive pressure leading to indigestion which could be deadly.

 

Charts are provided for the proper number of head per car or per deck as well as much more interesting information.  Feel free to inquire.

 

Kind Regards, Guy Wilber

 

I will add that cinders were also used for bedding, but not recommended for use with hogs, sheep or goats. One issue was the hogs would eat the cinders which would tear up their intestines.

 

The ATSF desired 2” of sand and discouraged cinders. Some roads desired up to 4” of sand.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

The Santa Fe and MILW used sand for "bedding."

 

   So did almost everyone. The shipper could choose, and I have heard that sand was preferred for hogs, as it stayed moist and helped them keep cool. Straw was the alternative. Bedding might be installed by the shipper, or by the railroad (the livestock waybill had a place to note who had done that job).

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the info, Doug. I think I will have some lime remnant weathering on my stock car model.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 




Eric, I have no idea.

Clean stock cars were a concern and the matter was discussed at the June 1897 monthly meeting of Central Association of Railroad Officers, Indianapolis Division:

Papers received from Secretary O. G. Fetter were read in relation to practice of cleaning empty stock cars before delivery to connections.

After hearing from all lines represented, it was found that the receiving road did not require the delivering road to clean the cars. This, however, is independent of the practice of Indianapolis Union Stock Yards Company, which cleans and disinfects all cars before loading with export shipments.

 

A 1956 UP Livestock Shipping Guide and Directory has specifications about Cleaning and Disinfecting Cars as well as Railroad Owned or Operated Stock Yards, Pens, Etc. “must be done whenever it is necessary to comply with federal, state, county, municipal or Canadian laws and/or sanitary regulations…” But does not mention lime per see.

 

From notes culled from online discussions:

From ORER

Note P.—Resolution adopted November 18, 1914.

WHEREAS. In view of the general necessity of cleaning and disinfecting stock cars in accordance with the orders of the United States Department of Agriculture and other authorities, it is desirable that the railways prescribe uniformly the rates for such cleaning and disinfecting as have been approved by the Interstate Commerce Commission in case No. 6495, New Orleans Live Stock Exchange vs. Louisville & Nashville Ry. et. al., therefore be it Resolved, That, when necessary, on account of Federal. State, County or Municipal regulations, to clean and disinfect stock cars, the charge will be $2.50 per car when single deck and $4 per car when double deck. These charges will be assessed against the shipment in addition to the regular freight or other charges for the transportation thereof.

 

 

I don't know about the regulations in the U.S., but in Canada, government regulations required the use of lime as a disinfectant in stockcars. This was usually applied by spraying, and as you can imagine, made quite a mess. Eventually, both the CPR and CNR opted to paint the lower carsides white, which at least made them look a little neater. This also necessitated moving the reporting marks and dimensional data higher on the carside. Here's a picture of a similar car on my layout.

 

 

 

The lime disinfectant wash on the Canadian cars may look "overdone" in part because the bottom two thirds of the car was painted white. It would be easier to tell how much was actual lime if the car was a darker colour.

 

The Canadian rules concerning livestock were quite stringent, and included specifications about how they were to be switched (usually first!), how often they had to be unloaded, rested, watered & fed, and so on. Many stations had cattle pens not because cattle were shipped from there, but because "through cattle" had to be unloaded and rested there.

 

Andrew

 

 

You spray the lime where the *ahem* non-white fertilizer *ahem* is..

 

 

It would appear a look for government regulations would provide the answer, but I think you are safe to assume that lime was used as a disinfectant in your era.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

Doug,

When did this practice begin? I just finished a UP stock car detailed for my 1926 era. I knew about the lime disinfectant but am uncertain on when the practice started.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

On March 8, 2017 at 6:39 AM "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Whitewash, by definition, is a mixture of slaked lime and water, and yes was used in place of paint. Lime was also used as a disinfectant. After cleaning, stock cars were typically disinfected using lime. Further the CP & CN (and others) painted the lower parts of their stockcars white to enforce the idea that their cars were clean and free of disease.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org