Topics

RF&P USRA Boxcar

Justin May
 

Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars? 


The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series.

Thank you,
Justin May

Benjamin Hom
 

Justin May asked:
"Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars?

http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926869/7cba8ba3-d614-4eb4-8944-2424fc2e4e82-A28900.jpg 

The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series."

This is indeed a USRA single-sheathed boxcar.  The wood door was original equipment and NOT a later application.  Originally Washington Southern 981-1130, later RF&P 981-1130, 150 cars built by AC&F.


Ben Hom

 

Eric Hansmann
 

Justin,

 

That is a USRA single-sheathed box car. RF&P were assigned 350 in the 2451-2800 series. It looks like RF&P 2538 in the image has been upgraded with an AB brake system and a second grab on the left side of the car.

 

The USRA freight car assignments can be found here.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 2:34 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 




Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars? 

 

 

The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series.

 

Thank you,

Justin May


Ted Culotta
 

Justin,

You probably are aware, but the Tichy kit includes the wood door as well.

Cheers,
Ted Culotta

 

Westerfield has a kit for this. Al Westerfield



On March 8, 2017, at 4:07 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Justin May asked:
"Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars?

http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926869/7cba8ba3-d614-4eb4-8944-2424fc2e4e82-A28900.jpg 

The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series."

This is indeed a USRA single-sheathed boxcar.  The wood door was original equipment and NOT a later application.  Originally Washington Southern 981-1130, later RF&P 981-1130, 150 cars built by AC&F.


Ben Hom

 

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Justin, Eric and Friends,

Actually, there were two groups of RF&P USRA boxcars. RF&P 2451-2800 originally assigned to the RF&P by the USRA. Subsidiary Washington Southern was assigned 981-1130, later merged into the RF&P. This gave the RF&P a total of 500 cars. In January 1958, there were still 9 cars left in the 2451 group, and 8 in the 981 group. There was also a stock car, 2409, which had the same dimensions as the USRA boxcars. These were some of the longest serving USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service in more-or-less original condition. I have a photo in my collection of RF&F 1131 with a 1965 reweigh date. Quite a few USRA boxcars also were in RF&P's MOW fleet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/8/17 5:11 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Justin,

 

That is a USRA single-sheathed box car. RF&P were assigned 350 in the 2451-2800 series. It looks like RF&P 2538 in the image has been upgraded with an AB brake system and a second grab on the left side of the car.

 

The USRA freight car assignments can be found here.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 2:34 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 




Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars? 

 

 

The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series.

 

Thank you,

Justin May



Richard Townsend
 

That car is pretty far from home. Ballentyne Pier is in Vancouver, BC.
 
FWIW, the pictured car was reweighed at the RF&P's Acca Yard in Richmond, VA.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin May westpointroute@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Mar 8, 2017 1:42 pm
Subject: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 
Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars? 


The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series.

Thank you,
Justin May

Eric Hansmann
 

Garth,

 

The original USRA assignment details are included on my blog. Some entries have notes on car disposition before 1930, such as the Washington Southern cars. Most of the notes came from the Lane article in the R&LHS bulletin. Service life is not covered.

 

The single-sheathed cars are noted in the first table but a reader will need to click the NEXT button under the bottom right corner to see additional entries. The RF&P and WS listings are on the last page of the table.

 

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

 

.

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 




Justin, Eric and Friends,

Actually, there were two groups of RF&P USRA boxcars. RF&P 2451-2800 originally assigned to the RF&P by the USRA. Subsidiary Washington Southern was assigned 981-1130, later merged into the RF&P. This gave the RF&P a total of 500 cars. In January 1958, there were still 9 cars left in the 2451 group, and 8 in the 981 group. There was also a stock car, 2409, which had the same dimensions as the USRA boxcars. These were some of the longest serving USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service in more-or-less original condition. I have a photo in my collection of RF&F 1131 with a 1965 reweigh date. Quite a few USRA boxcars also were in RF&P's MOW fleet.

Yours Aye,

 

Garth Groff

On 3/8/17 5:11 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Justin,

 

That is a USRA single-sheathed box car. RF&P were assigned 350 in the 2451-2800 series. It looks like RF&P 2538 in the image has been upgraded with an AB brake system and a second grab on the left side of the car.

 

The USRA freight car assignments can be found here.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 2:34 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 





Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars? 

 

 

The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series.

 

Thank you,

Justin May

 



O Fenton Wells
 

Great info Eric, thanks for sharing
Fenton

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:34 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Garth,

 

The original USRA assignment details are included on my blog. Some entries have notes on car disposition before 1930, such as the Washington Southern cars. Most of the notes came from the Lane article in the R&LHS bulletin. Service life is not covered.

 

The single-sheathed cars are noted in the first table but a reader will need to click the NEXT button under the bottom right corner to see additional entries. The RF&P and WS listings are on the last page of the table.

 

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

 

.

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 




Justin, Eric and Friends,

Actually, there were two groups of RF&P USRA boxcars. RF&P 2451-2800 originally assigned to the RF&P by the USRA. Subsidiary Washington Southern was assigned 981-1130, later merged into the RF&P. This gave the RF&P a total of 500 cars. In January 1958, there were still 9 cars left in the 2451 group, and 8 in the 981 group. There was also a stock car, 2409, which had the same dimensions as the USRA boxcars. These were some of the longest serving USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service in more-or-less original condition. I have a photo in my collection of RF&F 1131 with a 1965 reweigh date. Quite a few USRA boxcars also were in RF&P's MOW fleet.

Yours Aye,

 

Garth Groff

On 3/8/17 5:11 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Justin,

 

That is a USRA single-sheathed box car. RF&P were assigned 350 in the 2451-2800 series. It looks like RF&P 2538 in the image has been upgraded with an AB brake system and a second grab on the left side of the car.

 

The USRA freight car assignments can be found here.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 2:34 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 





Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars? 

 

 

The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series.

 

Thank you,

Justin May

 






--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...

George Courtney
 

I have a Mainline Video showing one of the RF&P USRA cars in green in a freight train on the Southern mainline near Greensboro.  Time period is mid-fifties; direction is northbound.  I've wondered if these cars were ever used to deliver monthly magazines like Reader's Digest or Life?  They could have gone out on passenger trains delivering the magazines but gone back empty in freight trains.  Curious if anyone knows of if any major magazines of the period were printed near Richmond or Washington?  Were any roads express boxcars known for use for this service? 

George Courtney

naptownprr
 

All,


Now I've got an interesting idea for my Tichy kit.  What color of green, George?  Anyone know if there are decals that would work?


Jim


From: STMFC@... on behalf of gsc3@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 7:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar
 
 

I have a Mainline Video showing one of the RF&P USRA cars in green in a freight train on the Southern mainline near Greensboro.  Time period is mid-fifties; direction is northbound.  I've wondered if these cars were ever used to deliver monthly magazines like Reader's Digest or Life?  They could have gone out on passenger trains delivering the magazines but gone back empty in freight trains.  Curious if anyone knows of if any major magazines of the period were printed near Richmond or Washington?  Were any roads express boxcars known for use for this service? 


George Courtney

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <gsc3@...> wrote :

I have a Mainline Video showing one of the RF&P USRA cars in green in a freight train on the Southern mainline near Greensboro.  Time period is mid-fifties; direction is northbound.  I've wondered if these cars were ever used to deliver monthly magazines like Reader's Digest or Life?  They could have gone out on passenger trains delivering the magazines but gone back empty in freight trains.  Curious if anyone knows of if any major magazines of the period were printed near Richmond or Washington?  Were any roads express boxcars known for use for this service? 

George Courtney


Hi George,

    Both of those magazines, and many other national publications, in at least some years in that era were printed by the Rumford Press in Concord, NH. They went out in B&M baggage cars and some baggage cars from other nearby roads. Manuy of the B&M's cars after WW II were converted from heavyweight Pullmans and others were converted from Pullman Troop Sleepers. B&M trains originating in Concord were noted to handle Rumford Press cars "as required". One wonders if some of these publications might have been printed at more
than one location around the nation to ease delivery costs and have most delivered on the same day.

My Best, Don Valentine

Hope this is of some help to you, Don Valentine

naptownprr
 

What color green?  Pullman?  Are there decals with that logo?


Jim


From: STMFC@... on behalf of riverman_vt@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 8:06 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar
 
 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

I have a Mainline Video showing one of the RF&P USRA cars in green in a freight train on the Southern mainline near Greensboro.  Time period is mid-fifties; direction is northbound.  I've wondered if these cars were ever used to deliver monthly magazines like Reader's Digest or Life?  They could have gone out on passenger trains delivering the magazines but gone back empty in freight trains.  Curious if anyone knows of if any major magazines of the period were printed near Richmond or Washington?  Were any roads express boxcars known for use for this service? 

George Courtney


Hi George,

    Both of those magazines, and many other national publications, in at least some years in that e! ra were printed by the Rumford Press in Concord, NH. They went out in B&M baggage cars and some baggage cars from other nearby roads. Manuy of the B&M's cars after WW II were converted from heavyweight Pullmans and others were converted from Pullman Troop Sleepers. B&M trains originating in Concord were noted to handle Rumford Press cars "as required". One wonders if some of these publications might have been printed at more
than one location around the nation to ease delivery costs and have most delivered on the same day.

My Best, Don Valentine

Hope this is of some help to you, Don Valentine

James McDonald
 

Hi Garth, Justin, and group,

If I might offer a small correction, RFP stock car 2409 was built from a different car series than the USRA cars. It came from the RFP 2251-2450 series delivered by Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1918. Those cars were shorter and wider than the USRA cars, had a different side stake configuration, and also a wider door opening. The majority of this series was off the RF&P’s roster in the late 1930s (at least 1 went to M&StL in the 28000 series, perhaps all?), but 10 were held back by the RF&P and converted to stock cars. What’s odd is that in the ORER the stock cars show up with the same dimensions as the USRA cars, but in the RF&P's documents 2409 (which survived into the 1960s) is clearly marked as PSC 1918 and the dimensional diagram matches the PSC cars. This is not the first weirdness I’ve uncovered in the RF&P’s ORER listings.

To the USRA cars, the doors are listed in RF&P documentation dated 1953 as “Camel, wood,” brakes as “Ajax geared - Westinghouse AB,” and the roof as “Murphy galvanized.” As of Jan. 1, 1955 the following cars numbers are listed as being in service: 1092, 1104, 2489, 2569, 2575, 2581, 2587, 2598, 2609, 2621, 2625, 2630, 2640, 2661, 2694, 2714, 2727, 2731, 2746, 2769, 2774, 2781, and 2782. That’s what’s in the documentation, but photographic evidence reveals this to be not 100% accurate as I have pictures of 1019, 1020, and 2775 all with reweigh dates from the 1960s. But at least that list may serve as a starting point for picking 1950s era numbers.

All the best,

James McDonald
Greenbelt, MD


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
3e. Re: RF&P USRA Boxcar
Posted by: "Garth Groff" sarahsan@... ggg9y
Date: Wed Mar 8, 2017 2:47 pm ((PST))

Justin, Eric and Friends,

Actually, there were two groups of RF&P USRA boxcars. RF&P 2451-2800
originally assigned to the RF&P by the USRA. Subsidiary Washington
Southern was assigned 981-1130, later merged into the RF&P. This gave
the RF&P a total of 500 cars. In January 1958, there were still 9 cars
left in the 2451 group, and 8 in the 981 group. There was also a stock
car, 2409, which had the same dimensions as the USRA boxcars. These were
some of the longest serving USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service
in more-or-less original condition. I have a photo in my collection of
RF&F 1131 with a 1965 reweigh date. Quite a few USRA boxcars also were
in RF&P's MOW fleet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Douglas Harding
 

According to Gene Green the M&StL 28000 series of box cars were 102 used boxcars purchased in 1939. 28000 to 28202; 40'-6";          80,000;  ex-RF&P 2251-2450 40'-6" SS box cars . they only lasted till 1944.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 7:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 

 

Hi Garth, Justin, and group,

If I might offer a small correction, RFP stock car 2409 was built from a different car series than the USRA cars. It came from the RFP 2251-2450 series delivered by Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1918. Those cars were shorter and wider than the USRA cars, had a different side stake configuration, and also a wider door opening. The majority of this series was off the RF&P’s roster in the late 1930s (at least 1 went to M&StL in the 28000 series, perhaps all?), but 10 were held back by the RF&P and converted to stock cars. What’s odd is that in the ORER the stock cars show up with the same dimensions as the USRA cars, but in the RF&P's documents 2409 (which survived into the 1960s) is clearly marked as PSC 1918 and the dimensional diagram matches the PSC cars. This is not the first weirdness I’ve uncovered in the RF&P’s ORER listings.

To the USRA cars, the doors are listed in RF&P documentation dated 1953 as “Camel, wood,” brakes as “Ajax geared - Westinghouse AB,” and the roof as “Murphy galvanized.” As of Jan. 1, 1955 the following cars numbers are listed as being in service: 1092, 1104, 2489, 2569, 2575, 2581, 2587, 2598, 2609, 2621, 2625, 2630, 2640, 2661, 2694, 2714, 2727, 2731, 2746, 2769, 2774, 2781, and 2782. That’s what’s in the documentation, but photographic evidence reveals this to be not 100% accurate as I have pictures of 1019, 1020, and 2775 all with reweigh dates from the 1960s. But at least that list may serve as a starting point for picking 1950s era numbers.

All the best,

James McDonald
Greenbelt, MD

>
> Messages in this topic (9)
> __________________________________________________________
> 3e. Re: RF&P USRA Boxcar
> Posted by: "Garth Groff" sarahsan@... ggg9y
> Date: Wed Mar 8, 2017 2:47 pm ((PST))
>
> Justin, Eric and Friends,
>
> Actually, there were two groups of RF&P USRA boxcars. RF&P 2451-2800
> originally assigned to the RF&P by the USRA. Subsidiary Washington
> Southern was assigned 981-1130, later merged into the RF&P. This gave
> the RF&P a total of 500 cars. In January 1958, there were still 9 cars
> left in the 2451 group, and 8 in the 981 group. There was also a stock
> car, 2409, which had the same dimensions as the USRA boxcars. These were
> some of the longest serving USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service
> in more-or-less original condition. I have a photo in my collection of
> RF&F 1131 with a 1965 reweigh date. Quite a few USRA boxcars also were
> in RF&P's MOW fleet.
>
> Yours Aye,
>
>
> Garth Groff

Justin May
 

Thank you all who have responded thus far. I've also located some additional photos of these cars via Fallenflags.org -


I have an underlying project for this car, which once I get some additional Evergreen styrene in hand, I'll share via my blog, but for now, thank you again for all who have responded.

Justin May


On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:47 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Justin, Eric and Friends,

Actually, there were two groups of RF&P USRA boxcars. RF&P 2451-2800 originally assigned to the RF&P by the USRA. Subsidiary Washington Southern was assigned 981-1130, later merged into the RF&P. This gave the RF&P a total of 500 cars. In January 1958, there were still 9 cars left in the 2451 group, and 8 in the 981 group. There was also a stock car, 2409, which had the same dimensions as the USRA boxcars. These were some of the longest serving USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service in more-or-less original condition. I have a photo in my collection of RF&F 1131 with a 1965 reweigh date. Quite a few USRA boxcars also were in RF&P's MOW fleet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/8/17 5:11 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Justin,

 

That is a USRA single-sheathed box car. RF&P were assigned 350 in the 2451-2800 series. It looks like RF&P 2538 in the image has been upgraded with an AB brake system and a second grab on the left side of the car.

 

The USRA freight car assignments can be found here.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 2:34 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] RF&P USRA Boxcar

 




Can anyone provide me with the details on this series of RF&P boxcars? 

 

 

The cars appear to be USRA boxcars and similar to that of the Tichy USRA boxcar kit, 4026, but I wanted to confirm if there were any known differences besides the application of a wooden door? 

 

In RPC #8, a small caption gives some very pertinent details of a series converted to express service, but I was curious to know their original roster information and number series.

 

Thank you,

Justin May