Underframe Ban


thecitrusbelt@...
 

I've consulted several sources on the banning of older freight car underframes. For the year 1974 I found two conflicting notes:

 

1974 - No underframes over 40 years if built before July 1, 1974.

 

1974 - No underframes over 50 years if built before July 1, 1974.

 

So is 40 or 50 years?

 

And was this a ban from interchange initiated by the industry or did the federal government outlaw such older underframes?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


mark_landgraf
 

50 years
Although you can get extensions
Many private passenger cars exceed 50 yrs old. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

From: thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Underframe Ban

 

I've consulted several sources on the banning of older freight car underframes. For the year 1974 I found two conflicting notes:

 

1974 - No underframes over 40 years if built before July 1, 1974.

 

1974 - No underframes over 50 years if built before July 1, 1974.

 

So is 40 or 50 years?

 

And was this a ban from interchange initiated by the industry or did the federal government outlaw such older underframes?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <mark_landgraf@...> wrote :

50 years
Although you can get extensions
Many private passenger cars exceed 50 yrs old. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY
=====================

Waaaay more complicated than that... but since this is all in the future for this list, I'm NOT looking it up. However, having lived through it, from memory...

The initial FRA rule was fifty years, with the limit decreasing two months every month until the limit reached forty years. At that point all the really elderly junk was expected to be gone, and the limit expanded out to fifty years again. I remember this because it spelled the end of finding really neat OLD cars in work service, although as it turned out, there were waivers available, so it didn't really have that much effect on the oldest cars. The poor economy of the early eighties did more to clear out the oldest cars from the interchange fleet than the rule, I think.

Dennis Storzek


Randy Hees
 

There are FRA rules, AAR rules (for interchange) and for passenger cars, Amtrak rules...

Currently, per FRA rules, for operation on a FRA regulated railroad, any "Freight" cars (including cabooses) need a waiver for operation if over 50 years old. ) Passenger cars do not have a similar rule and are legal if mandated maintenance and inspections have been preformed.

I have three freight cars under waiver, and that waiver limits those cars to 20 mph, and requires a "comprehensive" inspection every two years.  That calls for lifting the cars off their trucks, inspecting the frames, draft gear and center plates, and a single car air test.

I have 5 passenger cars in service, ranging from 97 years old to 70 years old.  They need the single car air test but don't require a waiver or a more detailed inspection for legal operation.

Randy Hees
Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City
Nevada Southern Railroad


Eric Lombard
 

Good Morning, Folks...

60-year-old box cars.exlx

I am uploading an Excel file that includes data on 29 box car series listed in the ORER with underframes that have achieved 60 years service. If the list were to include series that were retired between 50 and 60 years the count would be higher. Caveat: some of these listings may represent stale ORER entries for series some time after actual retirement but in most cases the data is convincing. 

The spreadsheet includes a column: SERVICE. In that column for each series is an abstract of its service history. Double click on a cell and it will expand to show the entire entry for your inspection. You can double click on any of the other cells, as well. Cells in in the COMMENT column contain notes about construction and other things.

This spreadsheet is an export from my relational database in Microsoft Access. The database currently contains data on over 8000 box car series including those built new primarily between 1910 and 1944, or RBLT and/or RENO from those series, but also including many series built 1900-1910 - a period I never intended to include but am finding too interesting to ignore. The cryptic numbers in brackets such as "[3456, 78]" represent citations to publications. Just ignore them. In the actual database the citations for each series can be listed out in full. 

Hope you find this interesting,

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


Greg Martin
 

Bob,
 
Minor correction to your post in RED
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 3/15/2017 10:33:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

I've consulted several sources on the banning of older freight car underframes. For the year 1974 I found two conflicting notes:

 

1974 - No underframes over 40 years if built before July 1, 1974.

 

1974 - No underframes over 50 years if built  AFTER  July 1, 1974.

 

So is 40 or 50 years?

 

And was this a ban from interchange initiated by the industry or did the federal government outlaw such older underframes?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


William Dale
 

As I have been following along on this topic, I photographed a covered hopper in 10-7-2013.  Now I AM FULLY AWARE, that this car exceeds the scope of this group, but it was in service after the "40" years being built in August 1971.  The car in question is PC / CR 888854 (PS-2CD) still wearing its original green paint and trust stencil.  There was a stencil painted on the side, "50 Year Life AAR Rule 88-EXS".  This car was clearly in active interchange delivering ammonium nitrate to the Zehners siding on the Reading & Northern.  Now said, this clearly violates the dates above, I'm no expert by any means, any thoughts, further input would be appreciated.

Bill


Randy Hees
 

As I understand the 50 year freight car rule, it was created because 1) freight cars were not as routinely updated and upgraded, so were more likely to have obsolete brake valves, draft gear and trucks, and 2) they can roam the North American railroad system, away from home for in some cases years...

There is a wavier program, which allows older cars to be used.  It is most commonly applied to cars in captive service on a single railroad, or on very special cars, like heavy duty cars for special service which are worth updating, and those updates, and history of inspection is used to support the waiver.

Your hopper is likely in captive service, on a single railroad or maybe a pair of railroads...

Randy Hees


destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <randyhees@...> wrote :

As I understand the 50 year freight car rule, it was created because 1) freight cars were not as routinely updated and upgraded, so were more likely to have obsolete brake valves, draft gear and trucks, and 2) they can roam the North American railroad system, away from home for in some cases years... 
===================

Not brake valves, etc, which are easily noted at each inspection of inbound interchange, but rather the overall condition of the underframe which nobody inspects. This fact was noted about the time the railroads were moving to 100 ton capacity cars, and the lack of inspection for structural cracks and fatigue cracking was worrisome.


Dennis Storzek