Topics

B&O O-27c trucks


Bruce Smith
 

​Folks,


I'm working on a couple of Walthers USRA gons and I realized that the cast sideframe trucks, at least on the PRR G25 were wrong - that car will get Andrews trucks (although we still don't have a 70 ton Andrews truck, right?).  However, as best I can determine, the O-27c class of the B&O were post WWI USRA "clones".  Did these gons have Andrews trucks as well, or did they have something else.  (FWIW, the Walters car is numbered 256506)


Regards

Bruce


Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


Dave Parker
 

Bruce:

The Bowser 2E-F8 truck is very close to the USRA 70-t Andrews truck, at least to me eye.  Subtle differences in the sideframe seems to be about it.  That's what I am using on a Walthers USRA gon that will be lettered for the PMickey.

Best regards.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Saturday, March 18, 2017 3:45 PM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
​Folks,

I'm working on a couple of Walthers USRA gons and I realized that the cast sideframe trucks, at least on the PRR G25 were wrong - that car will get Andrews trucks (although we still don't have a 70 ton Andrews truck, right?).  However, as best I can determine, the O-27c class of the B&O were post WWI USRA "clones".  Did these gons have Andrews trucks as well, or did they have something else.  (FWIW, the Walters car is numbered 256506)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



Bruce Smith
 

​Dave,


Yes, that's the truck I will use on the PRR car.  I've also used that truck on a G22... and if the B&O O-27c had andrews trucks, it is the truck I will use on that car as well... 


Regards

Bruce 

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC]
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 6:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] B&O O-27c trucks
 


Bruce:

The Bowser 2E-F8 truck is very close to the USRA 70-t Andrews truck, at least to me eye.  Subtle differences in the sideframe seems to be about it.  That's what I am using on a Walthers USRA gon that will be lettered for the PMickey.

Best regards.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Saturday, March 18, 2017 3:45 PM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
​Folks,

I'm working on a couple of Walthers USRA gons and I realized that the cast sideframe trucks, at least on the PRR G25 were wrong - that car will get Andrews trucks (although we still don't have a 70 ton Andrews truck, right?).  However, as best I can determine, the O-27c class of the B&O were post WWI USRA "clones".  Did these gons have Andrews trucks as well, or did they have something else.  (FWIW, the Walters car is numbered 256506)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL





rwitt_2000
 

Bruce,

These B&O gondolas had trucks with cast side frames.

These cars were rebuilt from class O-27a in 1929 for L.C.L. service.

I will send some photos off list.

Bob Witt


Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 3/18/2017 4:45 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

​Folks,


I'm working on a couple of Walthers USRA gons and I realized that the cast sideframe trucks, at least on the PRR G25 were wrong - that car will get Andrews trucks (although we still don't have a 70 ton Andrews truck, right?).  However, as best I can determine, the O-27c class of the B&O were post WWI USRA "clones".  Did these gons have Andrews trucks as well, or did they have something else.  (FWIW, the Walters car is numbered 256506)


Bruce,

I'm working off of memory, which I guarantee is faulty, but I think Kadee has a 70 ton Andrews truck.

Spen Kellogg


pennsylvania1954
 

Bruce and Dave--I have been on a project to get my freight cars equipped with correct trucks as nearly as possible so I have grown sensitive to truck names and references.

I think Dave meant to refer to the Bowser truck as 2E-F2. Richard Hendrickson, in his epic HO Scale Freight Trucks (Apr 1 2014) on pg 6,  captions this truck as "Bowser "Crown" Andrews 70 Ton 74091". Bowser developed this truck for their H21 hopper, but it has many other applications.

I have a copy of a typewritten document titled "FREIGHT CAR TRUCK CLASSIFICATION" showing trucks applied to PRR freight cars. Not sure where I found it--maybe Keystone Crossings. For the PRR G25 it shows class 2E-F3. Using the truck diagrams on Rob's Page,

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

the 2E-F3 is visually quite close to the 2E-F2 Crown, verifying what Dave found and our use of this truck as a very, very close stand in for the USRA gon.

We are indeed fortunate to have Richard's resource as well as several manufacturers creating a variety of trucks.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL











Benjamin Hom
 

Spen Kellogg wrote:
"I'm working off of memory, which I guarantee is faulty, but I think Kadee has a 70 ton Andrews truck."

Your memory is faulty. The Kadee truck is an early 50-ton Andrews truck. A check of their website would have confirmed this.
https://kadee.com/htmbord/page509_510_553_571_1571.htm


This is NOT the truck for the B&O gons in question.



Ben Hom


Bill Welch
 

Comparing the Tahoe 50-ton USRA Andrews truck to the longer Accurail version, could the Accurail truck be used as a 70-ton Andrews truck?

Bill Welch


anthony wagner
 

Hey, why not use Bowser's 70 ton Crown trucks? They're accurate for PRR. Tony Wagner


On Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:33 PM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Comparing the Tahoe 50-ton USRA Andrews truck to the longer Accurail version, could the Accurail truck be used as a 70-ton Andrews truck?

Bill Welch



Dave Parker
 

Bruce, Steve, Bill:

Bruce:  Sorry I could not address your question specifically about the B&O O-27c; I was only trying to say that, yes, I think we have truck that can pass for the 70-t Andrews (the Bowser Crown).  IIRC it does not have brake shoes but, based on my experience with the Bowser arch bars and 2D-F8s, the Kadee shoes should snap right onto the bolsters.

Steve:  Thanks for correcting my brain-f**t on the 2E-F2 trucks; don't know why I typed in 2E-F8.  Also thanks for nudging me to look more closely at the drawings of the 2E-F3 (USRA) trucks.  To my eye the F2s and F3s are "more different" in the drawings that they are in prototype photos.  YMMV of course.

Bill:  IMHO, the Accurail Andrews doesn't really represent any prototype (at least to an Exxtreme modeler).  Yes, it has the longer wheelbase of the 70-t USRA truck, but the sideframes are not nearly beefy enough, nor is the spring-box anywhere near wide enough to pass for the 70-tonner.  To my eye, it's just a 50-ton USRA truck with an elongated wheelbase.  Again, YMMV.

Best,


Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



James E Kubanick
 

Kadee #441 brake shoes fit nicely on the Bowser Crown truck. I just did this for a PRR H21 project.

 Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


On Sunday, March 19, 2017 7:45 PM, "Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Bruce, Steve, Bill:

Bruce:  Sorry I could not address your question specifically about the B&O O-27c; I was only trying to say that, yes, I think we have truck that can pass for the 70-t Andrews (the Bowser Crown).  IIRC it does not have brake shoes but, based on my experience with the Bowser arch bars and 2D-F8s, the Kadee shoes should snap right onto the bolsters.

Steve:  Thanks for correcting my brain-f**t on the 2E-F2 trucks; don't know why I typed in 2E-F8.  Also thanks for nudging me to look more closely at the drawings of the 2E-F3 (USRA) trucks.  To my eye the F2s and F3s are "more different" in the drawings that they are in prototype photos.  YMMV of course.

Bill:  IMHO, the Accurail Andrews doesn't really represent any prototype (at least to an Exxtreme modeler).  Yes, it has the longer wheelbase of the 70-t USRA truck, but the sideframes are not nearly beefy enough, nor is the spring-box anywhere near wide enough to pass for the 70-tonner.  To my eye, it's just a 50-ton USRA truck with an elongated wheelbase.  Again, YMMV.

Best,


Dave Parker
Riverside, CA





Jim Mischke
 



The B&O O-27c was a rare car, unsuccessful, and seldom seen.    A few B&O O-27a gondolas were refitted for merchandise LCL containers for Pittsburgh - New York overnight service.  Equipped in 1929, they were pulled from intermittent service in 1941, called a complete waste of money per B&O memo.


So due to narrow traffic lane, overnight transit, brief service, and disuse, these O-27c LCL gondolas would be contextually inaccurate on almost every layout.




Bruce Smith
 

Jim,


You would tell me AFTER I started to weathered the car ;)  Before weathering, I would have just changed the number to an 0-27A.  


Of course NOW I look in the 1943 ORER and I note that the car I have, 256506 is not listed in the ORER :(  There are over 5,000 cars in the previous series, which look like O-27A and it  looks like 11 cars are in the series 256508-256548.   Are these the leftover O-27C in general service?


Guess my car is headed for the stripper... after I finish weathering it for practice.  


Any ideas for HO scale O-27A decals?


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of jmischke@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O O-27c trucks
 




The B&O O-27c was a rare car, unsuccessful, and seldom seen.    A few B&O O-27a gondolas were refitted for merchandise LCL containers for Pittsburgh - New York overnight service.  Equipped in 1929, they were pulled from intermittent service in 1941, called a complete waste of money per B&O memo.


So due to narrow traffic lane, overnight transit, brief service, and disuse, these O-27c LCL gondolas would be contextually inaccurate on almost every layout.






rwitt_2000
 

Westerfield made this car and still lists decals.

  D8101 DECAL, O-27/O-27A MILL GONDOLA, B&O   $5.50 
Note also that the drop-end was modified by the B&O on the O-27a series. Not easy to describe, but a side-by-side comparison makes it obvious. I haven't looked at the Walthers car in awhile, but it maybe more suitable as an original USRA mill gondola, B&O class O-27.

Here are my notes mostly from the Westerfield History and Instructions:

B&O received 500 USRA mill gondolas from Standard Steel Car Co. in 1919.  They were given series 250000-250499 and classed O-27. Like NYC and Reading, B&O adopted the USRA design with minor changes as its standard throughout the 1920's.  A total of 6,000 clones were purchased between 1922 and 1925.  While all were classed O-27A, three of the five purchases differed physically from one another and from the USRA design.  The 1922 cars built by Cambria differed only in the removal of poling pockets and the use of Washburn/Tatum-design arch bar trucks.  Beginning with 1923 Bethlehem Steel took over the Cambria plant and continued filling orders for the gondolas.  On 1923 deliveries the corner was strengthened with a pressed steel post which allowed the end opening to be expanded from 7'11" on earlier cars to 9'0".  There was also a switch from Carmer cut levers to bent rod style.  The trucks on the early 1923 deliveries were Washburn/Tatums but beginning at about car 252400 they were switched to Symingons.  With the 1925 deliveries the drop ends were changed to a style uniquely B&O.  A single large, inward "crease" ran the width of the end.  The stake hold-downs were revised to three links of chain secured at both ends; the tack boards were placed in a higher location and standard 70-ton cast side-frame trucks were used.


Regards,

Bob Witt