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Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

twinstarcars
 

I am searching for pictures of International bulldozers loaded on flat cars. 

I need to know how far torn down the side arms and hydraulic assemblies are. 

How the blade is secured to the flatcar.

What is left attached.

Thanks in advance.


Ross Dando

Meridian, Idaho

Douglas Harding
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

 

 

I am searching for pictures of International bulldozers loaded on flat cars. 

I need to know how far torn down the side arms and hydraulic assemblies are. 

How the blade is secured to the flatcar.

What is left attached.

Thanks in advance.

 

Ross Dando

Meridian, Idaho

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Doug and List Members,

The web site you reference has some interesting images.

One example is shown below, SOUTHERN INDIANA gondola 5789...

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700099991045/9999014067-l.jpg

or

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:60,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM88876

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:25 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers


Here are some:

<http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:200,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM69184>http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:200,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM69184 <http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:240,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM70002>http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:240,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM70002Note a IH crawler, but nice shot of large crawler on flatcar<https://www.flickr.com/photos/hunter1828/7080763193/in/photolist-SqgoWd-bEA9DV-mvH47v-poA5VS-fJZyiU-8RSNjn-9a4DAq-9a4DAC-bsA6dW-q51VQC-RKnUJv-onzVCy-joU51F-8afsZr-bMGLd2-jou9ju-aACz3j-bsA6Vb-joU5c2-p79fMi-dYMnYk-mvHyEr-xgbMqB-rfemSs-jou7uN-AVJ98o-kYvJxU-nk3HKX-bFuZma-bszZQq-bsA44f-8RWcx1-dspv4F-8RT7b6-8RW9h1-Re4tr7-auBKPx-2s!
qdtm-97dhnu-cyrSRw-2vtQ4i-poBPmQ-bszWVw-aokFR5-gPFPen-p7Xgr9-8RW6fE-7e5cqQ-auBLkK-k3auut>https://www.flickr.com/photos/hunter1828/7080763193/in/photolist-SqgoWd-bEA9DV-mvH47v-poA5VS-fJZyiU-8RSNjn-9a4DAq-9a4DAC-bsA6dW-q51VQC-RKnUJv-onzVCy-joU51F-8afsZr-bMGLd2-jou9ju-aACz3j-bsA6Vb-joU5c2-p79fMi-dYMnYk-mvHyEr-xgbMqB-rfemSs-jou7uN-AVJ98o-kYvJxU-nk3HKX-bFuZma-bszZQq-bsA44f-8RWcx1-dspv4F-8RT7b6-8RW9h1-Re4tr7-auBKPx-2sqdtm-97dhnu-cyrSRw-2vtQ4i-poBPmQ-bszWVw-aokFR5-gPFPen-p7Xgr9-8RW6fE-7e5cqQ-auBLkK-k3auutDoug Harding <http://www.iowacentralrr.org> www.iowacentralrr.orgFrom: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:58 PMTo: STMFC@...: [STMFC] Flat Car Load Pictures of International BulldozersI am searching for pictures of International bulldozers loaded on flat cars.I need to know how far torn down the side arms and hydraulic assemblies are.How the blade is secured to the flatcar.What is left attached.Thanks in advance!
.Ross DandoMeridian, Idaho

Dennis Storzek
 

Oh, wow, did that picture strike a chord:

The year of the photo is 1947. While the location is given as Chicago, I believe the IH plant was in west suburban Broadview, switched by the CB&Q.

On April 3, 1947, while traveling through Downers Grove, IL, maybe ten miles west of Broadview, one of those crawler tractors fell off the side of a flatcar, right in front of the Twin Zephyr, which derailed at track speed and tore the front wall off the brick Downers Grove depot. Luckily, the station agent had just stepped across the street for a cup of coffee when the derailed train demolished his operator's bay. Subsequent investigation showed that some of the blocking was never nailed to the deck, allowing the crawler to shift and slide off the side of the car. For all we know, we are looking at the load in question.

Here is a link to a newspaper article from the time:


Overall history of the wreck:


Dennis Storzek

Steve and Barb Hile
 

IH had two plants in Chicago on either side of Western Avenue at 31 St and Blue Island Avenues.  They were older plants from the early days of International Harvester and known as the McCormick Works and Tractor Works.  See

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM27931

for a little bit of Tractor Works.  An old aerial view is available at

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/ref/collection/lakecou02z/id/1399

shows both plants.  They were both closed by the time I started with IH in 1979, but I recall Broadview as being a large parts depot, but not a plant.

Construction Equipment crawlers and engines were built at a plant in Melrose Park.  IH was once a major employer in the Chicago area (and other places, too.)

Just a bit of extra information.

Regards,
Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
Sent: Mar 30, 2017 7:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

 

Oh, wow, did that picture strike a chord:


The year of the photo is 1947. While the location is given as Chicago, I believe the IH plant was in west suburban Broadview, switched by the CB&Q.

On April 3, 1947, while traveling through Downers Grove, IL, maybe ten miles west of Broadview, one of those crawler tractors fell off the side of a flatcar, right in front of the Twin Zephyr, which derailed at track speed and tore the front wall off the brick Downers Grove depot. Luckily, the station agent had just stepped across the street for a cup of coffee when the derailed train demolished his operator's bay. Subsequent investigation showed that some of the blocking was never nailed to the deck, allowing the crawler to shift and slide off the side of the car. For all we know, we are looking at the load in question.

Here is a link to a newspaper article from the time:


Overall history of the wreck:


Dennis Storzek

Jim Betz
 

Dennis Storzek,

Thanks for that post with the link!

All,

If you didn't take the time to scan and read some of that GREAT Chicago
Tribune you missed some "good stuff". A very interesting "slice of history"
in that day's paper from 1947.
And there are other pages that covered the wreck later on in the same
paper including pictures and text about the ongoing investigation of the
cause of the wreck.
I found even the cartoons and ads interesting ... for instance check out
the page(s) covering "what's playing at the movies" that week. And the
classifieds. And ... well you get my drift.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1947/04/05/page/1/article/photos-bare-clew-to-cause-of-zephyr-wreck


It was also interesting to me to see so many really basic spelling
errors. Check the use of "clew" in the link. Notice how all thru the
paper "freight" is spelled "frate". Ya gotta laugh at that stuff ...
- Jim B.

________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers
Posted by: destorzek@... soolinehistory
Date: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:24 am ((PDT))

Oh, wow, did that picture strike a chord: http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:200,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM69184 http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:200,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM69184






The year of the photo is 1947. While the location is given as Chicago, I believe the IH plant was in west suburban Broadview, switched by the CB&Q.




On April 3, 1947, while traveling through Downers Grove, IL, maybe ten miles west of Broadview, one of those crawler tractors fell off the side of a flatcar, right in front of the Twin Zephyr, which derailed at track speed and tore the front wall off the brick Downers Grove depot. Luckily, the station agent had just stepped across the street for a cup of coffee when the derailed train demolished his operator's bay. Subsequent investigation showed that some of the blocking was never nailed to the deck, allowing the crawler to shift and slide off the side of the car. For all we know, we are looking at the load in question.




Here is a link to a newspaper article from the time:




http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1947/04/05/page/1/article/photos-bare-clew-to-cause-of-zephyr-wreck http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1947/04/05/page/1/article/photos-bare-clew-to-cause-of-zephyr-wreck






Overall history of the wreck:




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downers_Grove_train_wreck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downers_Grove_train_wreck






Dennis Storzek

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <shile@...> wrote :

IH had two plants in Chicago on either side of Western Avenue at 31 St and Blue Island Avenues.  They were older plants from the early days of International Harvester and known as the McCormick Works and Tractor Works
==================

Thanks Steve, I subsequently read the article and see they specify the load originated at 31st. & Western; was accepted by Santa Fe subsidiary Illinois Northern, then interchanged to the Q.

We also ought to mention, since this is a modeling forum, the the IH tractors were painted red.

Dennis Storzek

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote :


It was also interesting to me to see so many really basic spelling
errors. Check the use of "clew" in the link. Notice how all thru the
paper "freight" is spelled "frate". Ya gotta laugh at that stuff ...
- Jim B.
==================

I noticed that too, but suspect they were in the midst of one of the simplified spelling fads that went around periodically, back when people actually cared about such things.

Dennis Storzek

Douglas Harding
 

Here’s a color photo of an early IH T-4 crawler, restored.  https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/70/26/a4/7026a4fa8fc8c47133b1e3cfa81d842d.jpg

Here’s what may be a photo of a TD-18, which was the model of crawler being loaded on flatcars in a previous post http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tractors/images/b/bf/International_TD18_Crawler_tractor_at_Newark_VTH_08_-_IMG_3441.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090425095757

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., <shile@...> wrote :

IH had two plants in Chicago on either side of Western Avenue at 31 St and Blue Island Avenues.  They were older plants from the early days of International Harvester and known as the McCormick Works and Tractor Works
==================

Thanks Steve, I subsequently read the article and see they specify the load originated at 31st. & Western; was accepted by Santa Fe subsidiary Illinois Northern, then interchanged to the Q.

We also ought to mention, since this is a modeling forum, the the IH tractors were painted red.

Dennis Storzek

Bill Welch
 

Doug, were these strictly for construction or did some farmers use these? Is thier an approximate model year for either crawler. Gorgeous restoration.

Bill Welch

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

Doug, were these strictly for construction or did some farmers use these? Is thier an approximate model year for either crawler. Gorgeous restoration.

Bill Welch
=================

Both Holt, which became Caterpillar, and McCormick Deering, Which became IH, initially sold these to farmers, for field work. The idea was the tracks would let them get out in the field earlier, allowing one man to work more land. If you'll remember the classic film version of Grapes of Wrath, the Joad's house in Oklahoma was demolished by a field hand plowing with a crawler tractor, although I don't remember what brand.

By WWII construction outfits realized the utility of these machines equipped with a push blade (the classic bulldozer.) There are lots of photos of bulldozers building the Alcan Hwy.

The double jointed excavator bucket seems to be a post war development, but they were in use by the fifties.

The photo of the TD-18 seems to match the machines in the loading photos, which date to 1947.

The color photo of the TD-4 has newer styling, but likely dates to the mid fifties.

Dennis Storzek

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill,

I don't have any sources for International crawlers, but I have the book CATERPILLAR PHOTO GALLERY edited by P.A. Letourneau (Iconographics, 1997). It includes many photos of crawlers used in farming. In fact, Holt tractors, Caterpillar's original manufacturer, were developed for farming in California's central valley.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 3/30/17 1:04 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Doug, were these strictly for construction or did some farmers use these? Is thier an approximate model year for either crawler. Gorgeous restoration.


Bill Welch

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

 
I don't have any sources for International crawlers, but I have the book CATERPILLAR PHOTO GALLERY edited by P.A. Letourneau (Iconographics, 1997). It includes many photos of crawlers used in farming. In fact, Holt tractors, Caterpillar's original manufacturer, were developed for farming in California's central valley.

     Garth, the Holt machines were certainly first developed to serve as "link-belt tractors" for harvesters, but were extensively used from the beginning for western logging and road building.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Douglas Harding
 

Bill others have already sent confirmation that crawler tractors were used in ag service. In my experience in Iowa, not so much. In Iowa crawler tractors were mostly construction equipment. Farmers in the mid-west preferred rubber tired tractors. In the past decade or so large farms have been using tracked tractors, but they have rubber tracks not metal tracks. I may be making assumptions but I believe several factors influenced the choice of farmers.

1)      The tracks were hard on road and bridge surfaces. Rubber tires were far less destructive, and easier to fix/repair.

2)      Crawler tractors are slow, a factor when moving from field to barn or when taking farm products to town for sale or shipment.

3)      Crawler tractors had more power than was needed on smaller farms. Midwest grain farms were small until past the time era of this list.

4)      Crawler tractors were expensive, esp diesel powered units. If you didn’t need it why spend money for it. Mid-west farmers are frugal

 

Well you get the idea. I think you had to be a very large farmer to justify the use of a crawler tractor in typical mid-west farm operations. The John Deere B or McCormick Deering Farmal (later IH) was the tractor of choice up through the mid 50s.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <doug.harding@...> wrote :

Bill others have already sent confirmation that crawler tractors were used in ag service. In my experience in Iowa, not so much. In Iowa crawler tractors were mostly construction equipment. Farmers in the mid-west preferred rubber tired tractors. In the past decade or so large farms have been using tracked tractors, but they have rubber tracks not metal tracks. I may be making assumptions but I believe several factors influenced the choice of farmers.

1)      The tracks were hard on road and bridge surfaces. Rubber tires were far less destructive, and easier to fix/repair.

2)      Crawler tractors are slow, a factor when moving from field to barn or when taking farm products to town for sale or shipment.

3)      Crawler tractors had more power than was needed on smaller farms. Midwest grain farms were small until past the time era of this list.

4)      Crawler tractors were expensive, esp diesel powered units. If you didn’t need it why spend money for it. Mid-west farmers are frugal

 

Well you get the idea. I think you had to be a very large farmer to justify the use of a crawler tractor in typical mid-west farm operations. The John Deere B or McCormick Deering Farmal (later IH) was the tractor of choice up through the mid 50s.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org



    In this nation most crawler tractors used on farms have remained fairly small in size if for no other reason than larger ones simply were rarely needed. I do not agree that they had more power than was needed on smaller farms. Small John Deere crawlers were popular for New England and many New York farmers for years

and the Oliver OC-4 provided excellent competition to them. Perhaps farmers in the northeast have always been more diversified than those elsewhere and that may shed some light on the subject. My family sold the

family dairy in the early 1950's but by the time I was in 10th grade in the late 1950's my school vacations 

were spent back on our former neighbors farm, where I'm sitting as this is typed but it is now house lots. By that time Bert had acquired an Oliver OC-4 with a six way blade and a winch that was a wonderful small dozer.

It was great for moving stones too big to be moved otherwise and it replaced a team of horse formerly used to

draw saw logs in the winter and a collecting tank mounted on a dray for sugaring in the spring. If a field were

really muddy in the late spring one could usually get onto it with a small crawler where one would risk getting stuck with a rubber tired tractor. I've worked driving a team of horses to draw logs and sugar and have always liked working with a good team. A good horse can think and that will sometimes keep one from getting into trouble where the same cannot be said for any crawler or tractor. But I always enjoyed the OC-4 as well and 

could get more done with it than with a two horse team. The horses had to be fed whether they were working 

or not while the crawler did not. But the capitalization was without question more expensive and as much as

I like an OC-4 or a John Deere 50, or even a newer 450, the machine just never provided the satisfaction of 

working with a good team. I feel that way about my Massey-Ferguson 35 Deluxe as well but it has served me

well for nearly forty years.


    In the Black Earth area of Southern Russia where my wife's family lives crawlers were the choice on the collective farms just because the soil was so soft and deep. Wheel tractors often became mired in soft soil

until the modern tractors became available with eight wheels on longer axles to spread their weight more. 

When we last visited I was pleased to pass three John Deere and five New Holland combines on the way to

the village to visit my father-in-law. And when the tractor station at the collective farm was passed there was the old Soviet combine, a real Rube Goldberg machine, rusting at the rear of it. Good farmers know good

equipment when they experience it no matter where in the world they are located. 


Cordially, Don Valentine