Topics

ORERs


Schuyler Larrabee
 

I’d appreciate assistance with establishing when Lackawanna’s 40’ DD box cars 11350 – 11599 went off the roster.  I know there were 294 still extant in 1950, but as rebuilt USRA cars, I suspect they diminished in number pretty quickly and were probably gone by the EL merger in 1960.

 

Any assistance welcomed.

 

Schuyler

 


Todd Sullivan
 

Schuyler,

My January 1952 ORER says series 11300-11599 (40' XMR auto boxcars, 12'-6" staggered side doors, 40t capy, with Evans Auto Loader devices) had 292 cars in it.  Is this the same series you asked about?

I think have a 1960 ORER buried in a storage box somewhere; I could try finding it tomorrow and check, if you want.

Todd Sullivan


Ray Breyer
 

There were still 98 of them on the roster in January 1959. beyond that I can't say.
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 9:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] ORERs



I’d appreciate assistance with establishing when Lackawanna’s 40’ DD box cars 11350 – 11599 went off the roster.  I know there were 294 still extant in 1950, but as rebuilt USRA cars, I suspect they diminished in number pretty quickly and were probably gone by the EL merger in 1960.
 
Any assistance welcomed.
 
Schuyler
 





Schleigh Mike
 

October 1959 ORER shows 16.

Mike Schleigh in snowy Grove City, Penna.



From: "'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 10:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] ORERs

 
I’d appreciate assistance with establishing when Lackawanna’s 40’ DD box cars 11350 – 11599 went off the roster.  I know there were 294 still extant in 1950, but as rebuilt USRA cars, I suspect they diminished in number pretty quickly and were probably gone by the EL merger in 1960.
 
Any assistance welcomed.
 
Schuyler
 



John Riddell
 

Schuyler,
 
July 1960 shows 6 still in revenue service.
 
John Riddell


George Eichelberger
 

Re car quantities in RER

Can I suggest using RERs to determine the quantity of any railroad equipment at a particular time is subject to a lot of error?

If a series of cars is due to be taken off the roster due to age or rebuilding, there is no need for a railroad to “count down” the number of cars in a series with any accuracy. For example, if car in a series was scrapped, it could never appear in interchange. No clerk would look in an RER and care there were XX number of cars still in service, they would only be looking for the data on the specific car number they were concerned about. All they would be looking for is the car series that single car comes from to determine the Capy, etc. they needed to know.

The Southern’s practice seemed to be to modify car quantities for cars in service but stop making RER changes if they decided to take that series out of service. Rather than try to keep changing continually declining numbers, they would wait until none were left and delete the entire series.

The reverse was also true, cars could be in the RER that were not yet on the roster. They would never be seen in interchange so there would be no problem. Because cars had to be in the RER before they could be interchanged, the entry needed to be in place before they were delivered or in service.

In at least one Southern Rwy case, a series of cars was in the RER that never existed. The plan was for a group of 40 foot box cars to be given 70-ton trucks and renumbered. That group of cars existed twice in the RER, once under their original number series and also with their new 70-ton capacity numbers. For whatever reason, the 70-ton trucks were not purchased. Some repainted/renumbered cars had to be changed back to their 50-ton road numbers.

RERs are a good, widely available resource but we need to be careful using them to answer questions they were never intended to deal with.

Ike


John Barry
 

Ike,

Case in point, the ATSF Bx-41 & 42. Listed in the Jan 45 ORER as series X to Y, 0 cars, so I thought I wouldn't need any for my Dec 44 layout.  Turns out when you look at the live lists, several dozen were actually converted by that date and they are valid for my time frame.  Gross numbers seem relatively close though if you are looking for relative fleet sizes.  With the data for the planned conversions listed, they were immediately available for interchange service.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "george eichelberger geichelberger@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 9:41 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORERs

 
Re car quantities in RER

Can I suggest using RERs to determine the quantity of any railroad equipment at a particular time is subject to a lot of error?

If a series of cars is due to be taken off the roster due to age or rebuilding, there is no need for a railroad to “count down” the number of cars in a series with any accuracy. For example, if car in a series was scrapped, it could never appear in interchange. No clerk would look in an RER and care there were XX number of cars still in service, they would only be looking for the data on the specific car number they were concerned about. All they would be looking for is the car series that single car comes from to determine the Capy, etc. they needed to know.

The Southern’s practice seemed to be to modify car quantities for cars in service but stop making RER changes if they decided to take that series out of service. Rather than try to keep changing continually declining numbers, they would wait until none were left and delete the entire series.

The reverse was also true, cars could be in the RER that were not yet on the roster. They would never be seen in interchange so there would be no problem. Because cars had to be in the RER before they could be interchanged, the entry needed to be in place before they were delivered or in service.

In at least one Southern Rwy case, a series of cars was in the RER that never existed. The plan was for a group of 40 foot box cars to be given 70-ton trucks and renumbered. That group of cars existed twice in the RER, once under their original number series and also with their new 70-ton capacity numbers. For whatever reason, the 70-ton trucks were not purchased. Some repainted/renumbered cars had to be changed back to their 50-ton road numbers.

RERs are a good, widely available resource but we need to be careful using them to answer questions they were never intended to deal with.

Ike




Schuyler Larrabee
 

OK, sure, but you’ve noted a Southern practice not shared by other roads. And in the case in point, these were USRA cars built 1919-1920, so as 1960 approached, they were beginning to reach the age (40 years) when they would be prohibited in interchange service. I was curious about whether these would be common in the era I am attempting to constrain my modeling to (without a whole lot of notable success, though it does affect my model and kit buying), circa 1950 and a little later. What I was able to find is that they lasted through most of the decade in respectable numbers and that they were converted to AB brakes. So I am good to go with more than one ancient version.



More recent results:





Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2017 9:41 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORERs





Re car quantities in RER

Can I suggest using RERs to determine the quantity of any railroad equipment at a particular time is subject to a lot of error?

If a series of cars is due to be taken off the roster due to age or rebuilding, there is no need for a railroad to “count down” the number of cars in a series with any accuracy. For example, if car in a series was scrapped, it could never appear in interchange. No clerk would look in an RER and care there were XX number of cars still in service, they would only be looking for the data on the specific car number they were concerned about. All they would be looking for is the car series that single car comes from to determine the Capy, etc. they needed to know.

The Southern’s practice seemed to be to modify car quantities for cars in service but stop making RER changes if they decided to take that series out of service. Rather than try to keep changing continually declining numbers, they would wait until none were left and delete the entire series.

The reverse was also true, cars could be in the RER that were not yet on the roster. They would never be seen in interchange so there would be no problem. Because cars had to be in the RER before they could be interchanged, the entry needed to be in place before they were delivered or in service.

In at least one Southern Rwy case, a series of cars was in the RER that never existed. The plan was for a group of 40 foot box cars to be given 70-ton trucks and renumbered. That group of cars existed twice in the RER, once under their original number series and also with their new 70-ton capacity numbers. For whatever reason, the 70-ton trucks were not purchased. Some repainted/renumbered cars had to be changed back to their 50-ton road numbers.

RERs are a good, widely available resource but we need to be careful using them to answer questions they were never intended to deal with.

Ike





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


George Eichelberger
 

Mmmm…… Can you provide some specific examples, from company data, that says I am only describing a Southern Railway practice? I assume you can because of your “not shared by other roads” comment. (NO other roads?)

My comments come directly from company files but the logic would seem to apply to any railroad. WHY would anyone spend the time and effort to “count down” car quantities as I describe?

I hazard a guess that RER entires were seldom exact. If a car was wrecked or condemned after the next entry for the RER had been sent off (I can provide some examples), would that matter to anyone?

Do you agree that the data for cars not yet delivered needed to be in the RER before they could be offered for interchange? Would that be an accurate number of cars in service for that date?

Ike


Tony Thompson
 

george eichelberger wrote:

 

My comments come directly from company files but the logic would seem to apply to any railroad. WHY would anyone spend the time and effort to “count down” car quantities as I describe?


    My friend Steve Peery, who was part of the submission of SP entries to the ORER for several years, told me that they did their best to be accurate about the number of cars in service in EVERY number group. Of course it couldn't be exactly accurate, even at the date of submission, but they certainly did, as you say, "spend the time and effort." The same effort went into accurate dimensional data, so far as possible. The ORER has the character of a tariff and it is "required" that data be accurate, obviously within reasonable effort.

Do you agree that the data for cars not yet delivered needed to be in the RER before they could be offered for interchange? Would that be an accurate number of cars in service for that date?


      Steve told me that they would submit the number group and earliest delivery group size as soon as they knew it. Sometimes they got caught by the timing, and cars would go into service before the corrected ORER issue would be distributed. But they tried to have an advance indication.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






SUVCWORR@...
 

To add to what Tony said,  the PRR added new groups as soon as they knew they were coming.  In place of a specific number they entered "NEW" in that column.   If you check you will see numerous groups of cars showing 1, 2 or 3 remaining. The effort to be accurate was made.  Keep in mind that the PRR dated their submission 90 days before the issue date because of the enormous size of the fleet and the accounting necessary to provide accurate data.

Rich Orr



D. Scott Chatfield
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

>And in the case in point, these were USRA cars built 1919-1920, so as 1960 approached, they were beginning to reach the age (40 years) when they  would be prohibited in interchange service.  


I think I've pointed this out before on this list, but let me repeat.  The 40-Year Law was not enacted until 1974 and started at 50 years and ratcheted down one year each year until reaching 40 years in 1983.  So such age limits were far into the future as far as this august list is concerned.  Please commit this to memory. Thank you.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming....

Scott Chatfield


Robert Heninger
 

I'll take a contrary position: If the number of cars in service wasn't important to know, why was there a column for it in the ORER? It would seem to me the GN tried to be accurate, as the number of cars in service changes for each number series  in the various issues of the ORER I have examined.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


D. Scott Chatfield
 

I should also like to point out that just because a group of older cars is listed in the ORER doesn't mean they actually in service.  News reports from the late '50s indicated huge numbers of cars owned by the northeastern railroads were in dead storage, never to used in revenue service again.  In 1958 one-quarter of the Pennsy's fleet was stored bad order.  That's a lot of freight cars!  So while sizable numbers of older classes were still listed in the Register, unless you model some old yard or nearly-abandoned branchline where all those miles of cars were stored, you probably don't need them.

Just sayin'....


Scott Chatfield


Dave Parker
 

I can only speak to the B&M, and only to an early era (teens to 1945).  Every series that I have tabulated from the ORERs in my collection has declined in number in a systematic and even predictable way.  This is especially true of the WUF cars that disappeared completely between the 1930 and 1935 registers that I own.  I have no reason to believe that this does not represent a sincere effort to report the car counts as accurately as was reasonably possible (as per Tony's comment).

As for "company papers" that would tell a different story, if they ever existed for the B&M they are now at the bottom of some landfill in eastern MA (AFAIK).  Mercifully, the B&M never renumbered their cars in the pre-WWII era or, if they did, this is easy to tease out of  the registers. 

Consequently, I find the ORERs to be a decent (at least) source of information to help understand fleet composition, and it's about all there is in this particular instance.  I am particularly grateful for the sizeable number of these that have been scanned and made available at little or no cost.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Saturday, April 8, 2017 8:29 PM, "blindog blindog@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I should also like to point out that just because a group of older cars is listed in the ORER doesn't mean they actually in service.  News reports from the late '50s indicated huge numbers of cars owned by the northeastern railroads were in dead storage, never to used in revenue service again.  In 1958 one-quarter of the Pennsy's fleet was stored bad order.  That's a lot of freight cars!  So while sizable numbers of older classes were still listed in the Register, unless you model some old yard or nearly-abandoned branchline where all those miles of cars were stored, you probably don't need them.

Just sayin'....


Scott Chatfield



Eric Lombard
 

Well, as usual, I am late to the fray...
I offer here a full service abstract for combined UP 161000-161099, 161100-161199. I'll make no comment on what you'll find as you work through leaving it to you to decide if there is concordance and care in reporting dwindling cars available for service in the ORER.


I have compiled service abstracts for all UP box cars built 1901-1942 and all their subsequent rebuildings and renumberings: 319 series overall. Only a few have been abstracted in such detail as the following but the others could be. Those that have been done in this way are consistent in the concordance of counts in the ORER and events in their service as life recorded in UP records with a nod to the delays encumbered by accident reporting and the US Mail. For all of the series, the final retirement of the last 10 or so *has* been compiled to provide individual car road numbers that made it to the end. The concordance of this "dwindling" in the ORER and company records is consistent.


I should add that the P&R series histories compiled by John Hall at :
http://www.readingmodeler.com/index.php/articles/rolling-stock-reference/99-rolling-stock-reference-files/freight/214-reading-company-boxcars http://www.readingmodeler.com/index.php/articles/rolling-stock-reference/99-rolling-stock-reference-files/freight/214-reading-company-boxcars

provide the raw material to similarly construct ORER / RR Record service abstracts. I have done so for some of the P&R series with similar results to the UP exercise. There are other sets of company records available, as well.


A copy of the UP service abstract has been uploaded to the file section. It will preserve the formatting making reading much easier. Open as an ASCI text.


Enjoy




Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL
-------------------------------------------------------------------
UP 161000-161099
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin and disposition of all cars in this series are accounted for in this service abstract.


Dates expressed as 19xx[0] (square brackets) are from Union Pacific records made available to us all by Don Strack at:
http://utahrails.net/up/equipment-record.php com


Dates expressed as 19xx(0) (parentheses) are from issues of the ORER.


Serial numbers ending in 000-099 are class A-50-14 (rivited underframe) 100-199 are class A-50-15 (welded underframe).


1937[5]-
1937[9] 100 161000-161099, A-50-14, BLT Omaha, NB.
1937(7) ... ORER lists series but without car count.
1938[4] 1 #161100 BLT Omaha, NB.
This is likely a sample car.
1938(4) 100 In combined 161000-161199. However, this count would
appear to be for 161000-161099, A-50-14 only.
1938[8]-
1938[9] 99 161101-161199, A-50-15, BLT Omaha, NB
1939(1) 200 In combined 161000-161199, A-50-14, A-50-15.
1939[1] 1 A-50-14 written off account accident on C&O, 11-25-38,
#161055.
1939(10) 199
1939[11] 1 A-50-14 set up XAP & RENO into 861000-861199 by
changing '1' to '8' in first digit of serial:
#861059.
1940(4) 198
1940[4]-
1940[5] 5 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 861000-861199 by
changing '1' to '8' in first digit of serial.
#861051, 063, 065, 075, 079.
1940(10) 193
1940[11] 1 A-50-15 RBLT IH = 11-6, set up XAP, and RENO into
661100-661199 by changing '1' to '6' in first digit of
serial:
#661176.
1941(1) 198
1941[4]-
194x 5 are leased to CCC&StL 161010-161179 and back by
1944[7].
1941[4] 192 93 A-50-14.
99 A-50-15, 54 programmed to be fitted up for airplane
wings.
1941[4]-
1941[5] 54 A-50-15 RBLT IH = 11-6, set up XAP, and RENO into
661100-661199 by changing '1' to '6' in first digit of
serial:
#661101, 102, 104, 106, 107, 108, 110, 111, 112, 117,
118, 119, 120, 121, 125, 126, 128, 130, 132, 138,
139, 142, 144, 150, 151, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157,
160, 162, 163, 164, 165, 168, 169, 170, 171, 175,
178, 181, 183, 185, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192,
196, 197, 198, 199.
1941[10] 1 A-50-14 written off account accident on GM&O, 6-24-41.
#161001.
1942[3] 4 A-50-15 RBLT to IH = 12-4 and RENO into
961134-961182 changing '1' to '9' in first digit of serial.
#961134, 158, 180, 182.
1942[3]-
1942[4] 6 A-50-15 RBLT to IH = 11-7 and RENO into
761100-761199 by changing '1' to '7' in first digit of
serial:
#761105, 116, 161, 167, 184, 195.
1942(4) 132
1942[6]-
1942[7] 17 A-50-15 RBLT to IH = 12-4 and RENO into
561100-561199 by changing '1' to '5' in first digit of
serial:
#561109, 114, 115, 122, 123, 129, 131, 135, 136, 137,
140, 141, 145, 166, 173, 186, 193.
1943(1) 111
1943[4] 8 A-50-15 RBLT to IH = 12-4 and RENO into
561100-561199 by changing '1' to '5' in first digit of
serial:
#561100, 103, 113, 143, 148, 152, 176, 177.
1943[4]-
1943[5] 11 A-50-14 RBLT to IH = 12-4 and RENO into
561000-561099, by changing '1' to '5' in first digit
of serial:
#561024, 025, 044, 047, 050, 062, 069, 071, 076, 087,
090.
1943(7) 92
1944[2] 5 A-50-14 RBLT to IH = 11-7 and RENO into
361000-361099, by changing '1' to '3' in first digit
of serial:
#361031, 040, 078, 096, 097.
1944{7} 87
1945(1) 87
1945(7) 87
1945[12] 18 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 844000-844199,
1st, by changing '161' to '844' in first three digits of
serial:
#844005, 008, 009, 010, 013, 016, 018, 020, 022, 028,
041, 057, 064, 068, 074, 077, 092, 099.
1946(1) 87
1946[6] 1 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 461000-461099 by
changing '1' to '4' in first digit of serial:
#461081.
1946(10) 68
1947[3] 1 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 861000-861099 by
changing '1' to '8' in first digit of serial:
#861007.
1947[1]-
1947[2] 21 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
761100-761199 by changing '7' to '1' in first digit of
serial:
#161104, 105, 106, 107, 116, 130, 139, 142, 153, 160,
161, 165, 167, 184, 190, 191, 192, 195, 196, 197, 199.
5 A-50-14 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
combined 361000-161199 by changing '3' to '1' in first
digit of serial:
#161031, 040, 078, 096, 097.
10 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
combined 361000-161199 by changing '3' to '1' in first
digit of serial:
#161101, 108, 110, 119, 120, 121, 168, 175, 178, 187.
1947[2]-
1947[3] 5 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
562000-562199 by changing '562' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161114, 115, 136, 145, 177.
1 A-50-14 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
565000-565199 by changing '565' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161076.
7 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
565000-565199 by changing '565' to '161' in first three
digits of serial;
#161131, 134, 137, 158, 166, 176, 180.
1947[2]-
1947[5] 16 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
261100-261199 by changing '2' to '1' in first digit of
serial:
#161117, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 151, 154, 155, 163,
164, 169, 170, 171, 183, 198.
1947[3]-
1947[4] 2 A-50-14 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
563000-563199 by changing '563' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161050, 087.
2 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
563000-563199 by changing '563' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161129, 186.
1947(7) 132
1947[7] 1 A-50-14 RENO back out of 461000-461099 by changing
'4' to '1' in first digit of serial:
#161081.
7 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
261100-261199 by changing '2' to '1' in first digit of
serial:
#161102, 111, 112, 125, 128, 162, 185.
1947[7] ORER: 58,083 North American box cars with IL >49-8. This
is only about 8% of national box car fleet at this time.
1948[1]-
1948[2] 1 A-50-14 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
562000-562199 by changing '562' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161062,
3 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
562000-562199 by changing '562' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161122, 135, 141.
3 A-50-14 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
563000-563199 by changing '563' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161025. 044, 069.
1 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
562000-562199 by changing '564' to '161' in first three
digits of serial:
#161113.
6 A-50-15 RBLT back to IH = 10-6 and RENO back out of
261100-261199 by changing '2' to '1' in first digit of
serial:
#161118, 156, 157, 181, 188, 189.
1948(4) 155
1948[12] 2 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 957000-957199,
by changing '161' to '957' in first three digits of serial:
#957014, 072.
6 A-50-15 set up XAP and RENO into 957000-957199,
by changing '161' to '957' in first three digits of serial:
#957116, 166, 168, 170, 174, 187.
1949(1) 155
1949[1]-
1949[3] 14 A-50-14 RENO into 851001-851199, by changing
'16' to '85' in first two digits of serial:
#851017, 019, 023, 027, 031, 033, 034, 038, 039, 043,
060, 076, 089, 096.
20 A-50-15 RENO into 851001-851199, by changing
'16' to '85' in first two digits of serial:
#851104, 105, 110, 114, 124, 128, 131, 132, 133, 135,
139, 150, 151, 171, 179, 186, 188, 195, 198, 199.
1949[4] It appears that the following cars are freshly RBLT to
IH = 12-4 despite other cars in these series having
been RBLT back to 10-6 as recently as 1-1948
(see above).
1 A-50-15 RBLT IH = 12-4 & RENO into 562000-562199 by
changing '161' to '562' in first three digits of serial:
#562149 (no prior rebuilding history for #161149).
1 A-50-15 RBLT IH = 12-4 & RENO into 563000-563199 by
changing '161' to '563' in first three digits of serial:
#363162 (RBLT IH = 11-6 in 1941, back to 10-6 1947).
1 A-50-15 at IH = 12-4 RENO into 564000-564199 by
changing '161' to '564' in first three digits of serial:
#564129 (RBLT IH = 12-4 in 1942, back to 10-6 1947).
1949[5]-
1949[6] 26 A-50-14 set up XME and RENO into 511000-511100 by
changing '16' to '51' in first two digits of serial:
#511000, 004, 015, 021, 025, 026, 029, 030, 035, 042,
046, 048, 050, 052, 069, 070, 073, 080, 081, 084,
086, 087, 088, 093, 095, 097.
28 A-50-15 set up XME and RENO into 511000-511100 by
changing '16' to '51' in first two digits of serial:
#511101, 106, 115, 118, 121, 125, 127, 130, 134, 137,
141, 142, 144, 146, 154, 155, 156, 160, 165, 167,
175, 176, 180, 181, 185, 190, 191, 192.
1949[6] 1 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 957000-957199,
by changing '161' to '957' in first three digits of serial:
#957082.
1 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 261000-261099 by
changing '1' to '2' in first digit of serial:
#261002.
5 A-50-14 set up XML and RENO into 501000-501199 by
changing '16' to '50' in first two digits of serial:
#501006, 011, 037, 061, 098.
8 A-50-15 set up XML and RENO into 501000-501199 by
changing '16' to '50' in first two digits of serial:
#501102, 112, 119, 157, 164, 183, 194 197.
1 A-50-15 retired:
#161134.
1949(7) 110
1949[9]-
1949[10] 5 A-50-15 set up XAP and RENO into 753000-753199 by
changing '161' to '753' in first three digits of serial:
#753126, 153, 159, 163, 189.
1950[1] 1 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 261000-261099 by
changing '1' to '2' in first digit of serial:
#261045.
1950[2]-
1950[3] 14 A-50-14 set up XML and RENO into 854000-854028
15 A-50-15 set up XML and RENO into 854000-854028:
#161003 RENO to #854006
#161012 RENO to #854001
#161036 RENO to #854007
#161049 RENO to #854017
#161053 RENO to #854005
#161054 RENO to #854020
#161056 RENO to #854000
#161058 RENO to #854002
#161062 RENO to #854004
#161066 RENO to #854024
#161078 RENO to #854026
#161083 RENO to #854021
#161085 RENO to #854016
#161094 RENO to #854003
#161107 RENO to #854023
#161111 RENO to #854025
#161113 RENO to #854018
#161117 RENO to #854008
#161120 RENO to #854015
#161122 RENO to #854027
#161138 RENO to #854014
#161147 RENO to #854009
#161158 RENO to #854010
#161161 RENO to #854011
#161169 RENO to #854019
#161172 RENO to #854012
#161178 RENO to #854022
#161184 RENO to #854028
#161196 RENO to #854013.
1950[4] 2 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 261000-261099 by
changing '1' to '2' in first digit of serial:
#261040, 091.
1950(4) 35
1950[9] 1 A-50-14 set up XAP and RENO into 957000-957199,
by changing '161' to '957' in first three digits of serial:
#957044.
1950(10) 4 ( #161032, 067, 108, 113: the first two are only serials not
RENO during service life of cars)
1951(10) 3 ( #161032, 067, 108)
1951[11]-
1952[1] 18 A-50-14 RENO out of 844000-844199, by changing
'844' to '161' in first three digits of serial:
#161005, 008, 009, 010, 013, 016, 018, 020, 022, 028,
041, 057, 064, 068, 074, 077, 092, 099.
6 A-50-15 RENO out of 844000-844199, by changing
'844' to '161' in first three digits of serial:
#161103, 123, 136, 145, 177, 193.
1952[1] 2 A-50-14 RENO back out of 957000-957199 by changing
'957' to'161' in first three digits of serial:
#161014, 044.
1952(4) 29 #161005, 008, 009, 010, 013, 014, 016, 018, 020, 022,
028, 032, 041, 044, 057, 064, 067, 068, 074, 077,
092. 099, 103, 108, 123, 136, 145, 177, 193.
1952[11]-
1952[12] 5 A-50-15 RENO back out of 753000-753199 by changing
'753' to '161' in first three digits of serial:
#161126, 153, 159, 163, 189.
1953(1) 29
1954[3]-
1954[4] 4 A-50-14 RENO back out of 261000-261099 by changing
'2' to '1' in first digit of serial:
#261002, 040, 045, 091.
1954(7) 38
1954[12] 1 A-50-14 RENO back out of 957000-957199 by changing
'957' to'161' in first three digits of serial:
#161082.
4 A-50-15 RENO back out of 957000-957199 by changing
'957' to'161' in first three digits of serial:
#161116, 168, 170, 174.
1955[1] 1 A-50-14 RENO back out of 861000-861099 by changing
'8' to '1' in first digit of serial:
#161007.
1955(4) 44
1955[4] 4 A-50-14 RENO out of 851001-851199, by changing
'85' to '16' in first two digits of serial:
#161033, 060, 089, 096.
5 A-50-15 RENO out of 851001-851199, by changing
'85' to '16' in first two digits of serial:
#161104, 151, 188, 198, 199.
1955(10) 53
1956(4) 53
1956[4] 1 A-50-14 RENO into 361000-361199, by changing '1'
to '3' in first digit of serial:
#161013,
1 A-50-14 retired to #0301.
1956[5] 1 A-50-15 RENO into 361000-361199, by changing '1'
to '3' in first digit of serial:
#161193,
1956(10) 49
1957(1) 49
1957[12] 1 A-50-14 RENO out of 844000-844009:
#161072 RENO from #844006.
1 A-50-15 RENO out of 844000-844009:
#161187 RENO from #844008.
1958(1) 49
1958[2] 1 A-50-15 RENO out of 844000-844009:
#161166 RENO from #844007.
1958[2] 1 A-50-14 RENO out of combined 361000-361199, by
changing '3' to '1' in first digit of serial:
#161013.
1 A-50-15 RENO out of combined 361000-361199, by
changing '3' to '1' in first digit of serial:
#161193.
1958[3] 1 A-50-15 RENO out of 851000-851199, 4th:
#161195 RENO from #161015.
1958[7]-
1858[11] 9 A-50-14 RENO out of 851000-851199 4th, to original
serials:
#161017 RENO from #851017
#161019 RENO from #851006
#161023 RENO from #851002
#161027 RENO from #851018
#161031 RENO from #851001
#161034 RENO from #851012
#161038 RENO from #851011
#161043 RENO from #851010
#161076 RENO from #851004.
14 A-50-15 RENO out of 851000-851199, 4th, to original
serials:
#161105 RENO from #851003
#161110 RENO from #851005
#161114 RENO from #851008
#161124 RENO from #851023
#161128 RENO from #851000
#161131 RENO from #851007
#161132 RENO from #851020
#161133 RENO from #851022
#161135 RENO from #851013
#161139 RENO from #851014
#161150 RENO from #851009
#161171 RENO from #851016
#161179 RENO from #851036.
#161186 RENO from #851021.
1959(4) 79
1959(10) 79
1960(4) 79
1960(10) 79
1961[3] 1 A-50-14, #161033, written off account fire at Seattle, WA,
10-9-1960.
1961(7) 78
1962(1) 78
1962[1]-
1962[3] 20 A-50-14 RBLT to wood chip gondola and RENO to
149400-149419:
#161002, 007, 008, 014, 019, 022, 023, 028, 031, 032,
040, 043, 044, 060, 068, 074, 076, 082, 091, 092.
1962[10] 1 A-50-15 retired:
#161151.
1963(1) 57
1963 12 A-50-14 retired:
#161009, 010, 013, 018, 027, 034, 041, 045, 064, 067,
089, 099.
18 A-50-15 retired:
#161114, 116, 123, 133, 135, 150, 153, 163, 166, 171.
174, 177, 186, 188, 189, 195, 198, 199.
1963[6] 1 A-50-15, #161179, written off account accident on ACL,
4-5-1961.
1964 3 A-50-14 retired:
#161020, 039, 077.
9 A-50-15 retired:
#161104, 124, 126, 128, 132, 139, 143, 168, 193.
1964(7) 21
1964[9]-
1965[3] 3 A-50-14 are among 84 A-50-14, A-50-15, out of several
series, RBLT to wood chip gondolas and RENO into
149541-149643 in 149420-149699 of mixed class
(A-50-12, -14, -15, -18) origin RBLT 1963[1]-1965[12].
#161017, 057, 096.
5 A-50-15 are among 84 A-50-14, A-50-15, out of several
series, RBLT to wood chip gondolas and RENO into
149541-149643 in 149420-149699 of mixed class
(A-50-12, -14, -15, -18) origin RBLT 1963[1]-1965[12].
#161103, 108, 110, 131, 136.
1965[1] 1 A-50-15, #161187 retired.
1965[2] 1 A-50-14, #161072 retired.
1965(7) 5
1965[8] 1 A-50-15, #161145 retired.
1966(1) 4
1967(1) 4
1967[7] 2 A-50-15 retired:
#161105, 125.
1968(1) 3
1968[6] 1 A-50-15, #161170 retired.
1969(1) 2 1 A-50-14, #161038
1 A-50-15, #161159.
1969[3] 1 A-50-14 #161037, RENO from #541112 out of
541000-541399. No end doors. Not originally out of
161000-161099.
1970(1) 3 As 161037-161159.
1970[3] 1 A-50-14, #161038, last original A-50-14 sold.
1970(7) 2 1 A-50-14, #161037, XM (no auto end doors)
1 A-50-15, #161159. XM.
1971(1) 2
1971[2] 1 A-50-14, #161037, sold.
1 A-50-15, #161159 last original A-50-15 sold.
1972(1) ... Not listed in ORER.








---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <spottab@...> wrote :

I can only speak to the B&M, and only to an early era (teens to 1945). Every series that I have tabulated from the ORERs in my collection has declined in number in a systematic and even predictable way. This is especially true of the WUF cars that disappeared completely between the 1930 and 1935 registers that I own. I have no reason to believe that this does not represent a sincere effort to report the car counts as accurately as was reasonably possible (as per Tony's comment).


As for "company papers" that would tell a different story, if they ever existed for the B&M they are now at the bottom of some landfill in eastern MA (AFAIK). Mercifully, the B&M never renumbered their cars in the pre-WWII era or, if they did, this is easy to tease out of the registers.



Consequently, I find the ORERs to be a decent (at least) source of information to help understand fleet composition, and it's about all there is in this particular instance. I am particularly grateful for the sizeable number of these that have been scanned and made available at little or no cost.


Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 8:29 PM, "blindog blindog@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




I should also like to point out that just because a group of older cars is listed in the ORER doesn't mean they actually in service. News reports from the late '50s indicated huge numbers of cars owned by the northeastern railroads were in dead storage, never to used in revenue service again. In 1958 one-quarter of the Pennsy's fleet was stored bad order. That's a lot of freight cars! So while sizable numbers of older classes were still listed in the Register, unless you model some old yard or nearly-abandoned branchline where all those miles of cars were stored, you probably don't need them.


Just sayin'....




Scott Chatfield


Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <gn2059@...> wrote :

I'll take a contrary position: If the number of cars in service wasn't important to know, why was there a column for it in the ORER? It would seem to me the GN tried to be accurate, as the number of cars in service changes for each number series  in the various issues of the ORER I have examined.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND
================

I am also late to the party here. The arguments already presented that the actual number of cars makes no difference, since if the car didn't exist, no one would be looking it up, make some sense, as far as they go.

However, that ignores the times when a shipper complains, "why can't you send me more cars like the last one, instead of this junk." It becomes an easy reference to find the answer, "Because we only own six of them, and they are scattered all over the country." I'm sure there were other instances of agents being asked to find cars with a specific dimension or other characteristic, and having some idea how large the potential target population was would be useful.

Anyway, It is my understanding that updates to the ICC valuation reports were still required at least until 1960, so someone was already counting the cars for this purpose. It would be trivial to mine this data to provide mostly accurate numbers for remaining cars in each series for inclusion in the ORER.

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

I'll give an example of why this was definitely IMPORTANT to know - some
number series had ZERO cars. Who suggested that knowing how many cars there
were is unimportant? :-) Also in many sparsely populated series, railroads
sometimes list every single car number in service. That tells me they cared
very much about the accuracy of the ORER. "Mistakes happen" is the name of
this story!

Tim O'




I'll take a contrary position: If the number of cars in service wasn't important to know, why was there a column for it in the ORER? It would seem to me the GN tried to be accurate, as the number of cars in service changes for each number series  in the various issues of the ORER I have examined.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <blindog@...> wrote :

I should also like to point out that just because a group of older cars is listed in the ORER doesn't mean they actually in service.  News reports from the late '50s indicated huge numbers of cars owned by the northeastern railroads were in dead storage, never to used in revenue service again.  In 1958 one-quarter of the Pennsy's fleet was stored bad order.  That's a lot of freight cars!  So while sizable numbers of older classes were still listed in the Register, unless you model some old yard or nearly-abandoned branchline where all those miles of cars were stored, you probably don't need them.

Just sayin'....
====================

Not sure that either the time, or the railroad, makes for a typical example.

The country was in an economic recession from August 1957 to April 1958 (one of the few times my dad, a construction worker, was laid off and didn't work through the winter). So, with traffic down, I'm sure a lot of roads were storing cars.

In the case of the PRR, the malaise that eventually resulted in the Penn Central debacle had already set in.

Dennis Storzek



Tim O'Connor
 


Indeed, what happened after WWII was a mass migration of heavy industry away
from the eastern states (where industry had originally developed) to "greenfield"
developments everywhere else. If you follow car loadings after WWII up to the PRR-NYC
merger, you see a steady (sometimes steep) drop in car loadings on those eastern roads
and a steady rise for other roads (SP, Southern, others). At one point in the 1950's
I recall SP bragging that a new rail-served customer was being added every day. In the
case of the PRR it was probably losing one every day. I figured it out once but at
some point in the 1960's the SP's revenue-ton-miles exceeded those of the PRR+NYC for
the first time.

Tim O'


In the case of the PRR, the malaise that eventually resulted in the Penn Central debacle had already set in. Dennis Storzek