Why bright colored reefers?


destorzek@...
 

Ah... I was thinking of the wood cars.

Dennis Storzek


---In STMFC@..., <riddellj@...> wrote :


Interestingly, the Grand Trunk Western followed the US practice with yellow-orange sides on their reefers. When in Rome... I guess.


Dennis Storzek
 
Dennis, actually GTW  painted its steel 8-hatch reefers the same gray as did CN.
 
John Riddell


John Riddell
 


Interestingly, the Grand Trunk Western followed the US practice with yellow-orange sides on their reefers. When in Rome... I guess.


Dennis Storzek
 
Dennis, actually GTW  painted its steel 8-hatch reefers the same gray as did CN.
 
John Riddell


destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <lamontc@...> wrote :
Certainly CN used their standard Red No. 11 (their version of boxcar red) on the woodside cars of the 1920s and 1930s for pretty much their entire career, and subsequently on the first two or three groups of steel side cars received in 1939-40.  I've always assumed that the steel side cars absorbed and transferred more solar heat as a result, and CN painted all subsequent groups in Grey No. 11.  When the new look was implemented beginning in 1961 (yeah I know, in the future...), the reefers were painted in Aluminum No. 11 -- however, the insulated boxcars continued to be painted in Red No. 11 through the last delivery in 1972.

Ian Cranstone
=====================
I was looking in our files for the trade press article on CN's silver paint on wood reefer experiment, but it's not filed where I expected to find it. I did, however, run into a couple photos of wood reefers in the CN "noodle" scheme, which dates to after 1960, I'm sure. The photos are B&W, but the lettering is light on a dark car, so I assume the cars are still freight car red.

Interestingly, the Grand Trunk Western followed the US practice with yellow-orange sides on their reefers.  When in Rome... I guess.

Dennis Storzek


Ian Cranstone
 

---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Also, bright colors tend to reflect the sun's rays, thus taking some stress off the insulation. Dark colors tend to absorb heat, causing the insulation to be less effective.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

and Dennis Storzek replied: 

As if the Canadian roads cared about this, both using freight car red for reefers well into the twentieth century. The CN did do some experiments with Aluminum paint in the thirties, I believe, and found that it helped, so long as the cars were clean, but the effect diminished as the cars got dirty. CN eventually went to light gray as being more cost effective.

Certainly CN used their standard Red No. 11 (their version of boxcar red) on the woodside cars of the 1920s and 1930s for pretty much their entire career, and subsequently on the first two or three groups of steel side cars received in 1939-40.  I've always assumed that the steel side cars absorbed and transferred more solar heat as a result, and CN painted all subsequent groups in Grey No. 11.  When the new look was implemented beginning in 1961 (yeah I know, in the future...), the reefers were painted in Aluminum No. 11 -- however, the insulated boxcars continued to be painted in Red No. 11 through the last delivery in 1972.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada



Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

As if the Canadian roads cared about this, both using freight car red for reefers well into the twentieth century. The CN did do some experiments with Aluminum paint in the thirties, I believe, and found that it helped, so long as the cars were clean, but the effect diminished as the cars got dirty. CN eventually went to light gray as being more cost effective.


    When I interviewed Earl Hopkins, retired CMO of PFE, he described a test done in the late 1940s by PFE, painting some ice car roofs aluminum and then instrumenting the car to see how it fared in service, compared to a then-standard BCR roof. Initially, he said, the results were dramatic in lower car interior temperature with the aluminum paint. But by the time the cars were in service a month, the dirt and grime on the roof reduced their performance to exactly that of BCR roofs. 
     In later years, with diesel locomotives universal, they did go to aluminum roof paint for mechanical cars.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <jekuban@...> wrote :

Also, bright colors tend to reflect the sun's rays, thus taking some stress off the insulation. Dark colors tend to absorb heat, causing the insulation to be less effective.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

As if the Canadian roads cared about this, both using freight car red for reefers well into the twentieth century. The CN did do some experiments with Aluminum paint in the thirties, I believe, and found that it helped, so long as the cars were clean, but the effect diminished as the cars got dirty. CN eventually went to light gray as being more cost effective.

The real reason why reefers were painted yellow / orange is like so many other things in railroading... "We've always done it that way."

Dennis Storzek


James E Kubanick
 

Also, bright colors tend to reflect the sun's rays, thus taking some stress off the insulation. Dark colors tend to absorb heat, causing the insulation to be less effective.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


On Sunday, April 16, 2017 10:42 PM, "randyhees@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Bright reefer colors date back to the 1860's and the creation of "Fast Freight Lines" which were cars which could be interchanged in a time before the Master Car Builders Association (MCB, later the AAR) had rules for interchange, including daily per diem (rent) or rules for repairs and allowable costs associated with repairs.

The earliest lines the Red line, (on the Vanderbilt owned railroads, later the NYC) the Blue Line and such were painted bright colors to identify them but also as a marketing tool. 

In fact, the MCB was created out of meetings to create the Red Line, then as it became obvious the value that the converstations had, other non-Vanderbilt railroad people were invited to attend...   The Car-Builder's Dictionary was created so the members were using a common vocabulary for parts, and so the accountants could understand what they were being billed for.

Randy Hees
Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City



Randy Hees
 

Bright reefer colors date back to the 1860's and the creation of "Fast Freight Lines" which were cars which could be interchanged in a time before the Master Car Builders Association (MCB, later the AAR) had rules for interchange, including daily per diem (rent) or rules for repairs and allowable costs associated with repairs.

The earliest lines the Red line, (on the Vanderbilt owned railroads, later the NYC) the Blue Line and such were painted bright colors to identify them but also as a marketing tool. 

In fact, the MCB was created out of meetings to create the Red Line, then as it became obvious the value that the converstations had, other non-Vanderbilt railroad people were invited to attend...   The Car-Builder's Dictionary was created so the members were using a common vocabulary for parts, and so the accountants could understand what they were being billed for.

Randy Hees
Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City


Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

Bright colors?................Why of course, advertising......Jim W.


On Sunday, April 16, 2017 5:11 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Chuck Peck wrote:

 
I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food  products?  

    Two of the PFE retirees I interviewed emphasized that employees were very aware that they were food cars. That was one reason PFE washed its cars until the mid-1950s.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Tony Thompson
 

Chuck Peck wrote:

 
I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food  products?  

    Two of the PFE retirees I interviewed emphasized that employees were very aware that they were food cars. That was one reason PFE washed its cars until the mid-1950s.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Tim O'Connor
 

Chuck

Making them "stand out" makes sense - everyone in the yard aware that the loaded
cars carried PERISHABLE lading, so maybe this aided expedited handling.


I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand
out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food
products?  Some other reason not to use the usual FCR colors? 
All I have is a couple of possibilities. Anyone have an actual answer?

Chuck Peck in FL


Charles Peck
 

I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand

out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food 

products?  Some other reason not to use the usual FCR colors?  

All I have is a couple of possibilities. Anyone have an actual answer?

Chuck Peck in FL