Topics

using blue flags


Tony Thompson
 

I recently got interested in modeling and using blue flags, and wrote two blog posts, one about the prototype and one about how I decided to make model blue flags. If you're interested, here are links to the two posts:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2017/04/blue-flags.html

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2017/04/blue-flags-part-2-modeling.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 


I like it ! Unfortunately I heard Don Manlick passed away. I don't know
if anyone picked up his art work. He made many interesting decals.

Tim O'Connor




I recently got interested in modeling and using blue flags, and wrote two blog posts, one about the prototype and one about how I decided to make model blue flags. If you're interested, here are links to the two posts:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2017/04/blue-flags.html

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2017/04/blue-flags-part-2-modeling.html

Tony Thompson


Stic Harris
 

Tony,

Nice blogs!
Do you (or anyone else on this list) know when this practice began?

Stic

Sent from Stic's iPad

On Apr 30, 2017, at 03:35, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I recently got interested in modeling and using blue flags, and wrote two blog posts, one about the prototype and one about how I decided to make model blue flags. If you're interested, here are links to the two posts:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2017/04/blue-flags.html

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2017/04/blue-flags-part-2-modeling.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


rwitt_2000
 

I found a court judgement from 1911 deigning damages for not using them so it has to be earlier than that.

Bob Witt


rwitt_2000
 

Best I can find ...

Found this in: Guidelines for the Specification of Blue Safety Flags in Railroad Operations

p. 12

“According to Dreyfus (1972), the use of blue as a safety color in the railroad industry has a long
history dating back to the 1800s.”

Reference: Dreyfuss, H. (1972). Symbol Source Book, New York: McGraw-Hill.

Link: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=origins+of+blue+flag+rules+in+railroad


Bob Witt

The date of the blue flag rules origins is outside the date limits of this group.


Tim O'Connor
 


Good point. I also object to any discussions of steel, oil, wood, or paint,
since all of those were first employed prior to 1900.



Bob Witt

The date of the blue flag rules origins is outside the date limits of this group.


Jim Betz
 

Tony (and all),

I know of one layout that has modeled one of the permanent
(fold up) blue flags ... in the laying down position between the
rails. (I don't believe it can be raised but at least it is nice
"eye candy".

Seth Neumann uses blue flags to limit tracks available to his
Nummi plant switching jobs ... he places them and removes
them during the Op. Seth's Nummi job is run as a series of
jobs where each job works one of the areas of his enormous
Nummi plant ... there are Nummi 1 thru Nummi 4 before it
repeats. I believe that Seth leaves the status of the Nummi
job alone across sessions so if this session only finishes 2 of
the 4 the next session starts with Nummi 3. Some times the
same person does more than one Nummi job, sometimes not.

It occurs to me that you should paint both sides of the blue
flag blue rather than have one side grey ... that way your
operators can see it no matter where they are standing or
how square it is with the rails.
- Jim B.


Eric Hansmann
 

Here's another take on modeling blue flags and using them in operating
sessions. This was posted last June on the DesignBuildOp blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2016/06/24/blue-flags/



Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


thecitrusbelt@...
 

The blue flag decals mentioned in Tony's blog were from:

 

DM Custom Decals

Donald Manlick

2127 South 11th Street
Manitowoc, WI 54220

920-684-8688

 

I tried calling several times but after the phone was answered I was cut-off. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
The blue flag decals mentioned in Tony's blog were from:

 

DM Custom Decals
Donald Manlick
2127 South 11th Street
Manitowoc, WI 54220
920-684-8688

 

I tried calling several times but after the phone was answered I was cut-off. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

  Yes, I added a comment to my modeling post, identifying Don. In fact, Don passed away in February 2015 and the existing stock of decals was auctioned off. But I have not been able to find out whether the artwork survives and if it is in use by anyone. The reach of this list might be great enough to turn up an answer.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Brian Termunde
 

I agree with Tim, but by going with that standard, it's going to be AWFULLY quiet here, as we cannot discuss freight cars as they most assuredly originated prior to 1900!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah

************************************************

________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: using blue flags
Posted by: "Tim O&#39;Connor" timboconnor@... cf5250
Date: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:04 pm ((PDT))


Good point. I also object to any discussions of steel, oil, wood, or paint,
since all of those were first employed prior to 1900.



>Bob Witt
>
>The date of the blue flag rules origins is outside the date limits of this group.






Dennis Storzek
 

http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption

Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.

Dennis Storzek


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags


http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.
Dennis Storzek


Bruce Smith
 

This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags


http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption


Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.


Dennis Storzek


rwitt_2000
 

I agree and there is the Western Union office, REA trucks behind the station, ...


Bob Witt


Brian Termunde
 

Bruce is so right about the wealth of details. I also love the Santa Fe truck. Not the newest of models, but still clean and functional.

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah



*********************************************

3c. Re: using blue flags
Posted by: "Bruce F. Smith" smithbf@... smithbf36832
Date: Wed May 3, 2017 5:28 am ((PDT))

This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags


> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.


Tom Vanwormer
 

Bob,
Because Don Manlick passed away.
Tom VanWormer

thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

The blue flag decals mentioned in Tony's blog were from:

 

DM Custom Decals

Donald Manlick

2127 South 11th Street
Manitowoc, WI 54220

920-684-8688

 

I tried calling several times but after the phone was answered I was cut-off. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


John Barry
 

You see something new each time you look at it.  It's particularly interesting for me as I lived six blocks east of this location when I was in Albuquerque, many years in the future.  


Even more Steam Era Freight cars at the loading dock.  Note the fuel cars.  The first car is the same in both pictures Tk-K 100563.  The second car seems to be the same Tk-J, ???54.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.
>
>
> Dennis Storzek



Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

John and friends,

Did anyone else notice the nominal 37' boxcar at the freight platform to the left? Another possible car from Dennis' new offering.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/3/17 11:23 PM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
You see something new each time you look at it.  It's particularly interesting for me as I lived six blocks east of this location when I was in Albuquerque, many years in the future.  


Even more Steam Era Freight cars at the loading dock.  Note the fuel cars.  The first car is the same in both pictures Tk-K 100563.  The second car seems to be the same Tk-J, ???54.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.
>
>
> Dennis Storzek




John Barry
 

Garth,

If you are referring to the short car to the left of the box in the map scheme, it is an AT&SF  car which would likely make it a Bx-O/14.  Those cars had fishbelly side sills and can't be built out of the box from the new (and very nice) Acurail car.  It may be the foundation for a kitbash, but I haven't figured that out yet as all three of the kits I've gotten are with the straight center sill.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
John and friends,
Did anyone else notice the nominal 37' boxcar at the freight platform to the left? Another possible car from Dennis' new offering.
Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

On 5/3/17 11:23 PM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
You see something new each time you look at it.  It's particularly interesting for me as I lived six blocks east of this location when I was in Albuquerque, many years in the future.  


Even more Steam Era Freight cars at the loading dock.  Note the fuel cars.  The first car is the same in both pictures Tk-K 100563.  The second car seems to be the same Tk-J, ???54.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.
>
>
> Dennis Storzek