PRR Keystones ??


Jim Betz
 

Hi,


  I'm not a Pennsy modeler.  Would someone please provide the years

for the introduction of the various forms of the keystone logo - I think

there are only(?) 3 ... keystone, circle keystone, and shadow keystone.


                                                                     TIA - Jim B.


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

The circle keystone herald was used from approximately 1936 up to 1954. It was replaced by the shadow keystone which lasted until about the early 1960s. Sorry for the vagueness but I'm going from memory on these. Remember that the earlier heralds lasted until the car was repainted... which may have been as much as 10 years (or even later...).
 
Bill Daniels


Jim Betz
 

Bill and all,

  I also think there were cars that had 'just the keystone' (i.e. without
the circle or the shadow) but I don't have a clue as to when those
were being done.

  Thanks for the date range for the circle -vs- shadow.  Yes, I 
understand that a car with a circle keystone paint might have
lasted well beyond the introduction of the shadow ... it always
depends upon when the car was repainted.
  However, there is another aspect to those date ranges ... if
your layout/ops scheme is set for "1953" then you should not
be running any shadow keystone cars.  *G*  But many of us
do not adhere to "era" as tightly as others ... and that's OK
if that is your thing.
                                                                           - Jim


Dave Parker
 

Everything I have read, including Al Westerfield's history sheets, suggest that the circle keystone was first applied in 1930.  I model 1934-35, and will have a MOL even mix of with and without the keystone.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA.


On Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:35 AM, "jimbetz@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Bill and all,

  I also think there were cars that had 'just the keystone' (i.e. without
the circle or the shadow) but I don't have a clue as to when those
were being done.

  Thanks for the date range for the circle -vs- shadow.  Yes, I 
understand that a car with a circle keystone paint might have
lasted well beyond the introduction of the shadow ... it always
depends upon when the car was repainted.
  However, there is another aspect to those date ranges ... if
your layout/ops scheme is set for "1953" then you should not
be running any shadow keystone cars.  *G*  But many of us
do not adhere to "era" as tightly as others ... and that's OK
if that is your thing.
                                                                           - Jim



SUVCWORR@...
 

The Shadow Keystone first appeared on the X48 (PS-1 cushion underframe) in January 1954.  Application to repaints and subsequent construction began in late July 1954.  The plain keystone appeared circa 1962.  The shadow and circle keystones could be found on cars into the Penn Central era.

Rich Orr


Ed Shoben
 

I am far from a PRR guru, but I do have access to Ben Hom’s description of lettering for X29 boxcars.  I don’t know of my own knowledge, but I would be very surprised if Ben were in error.  His listing:

 

Circle K 1/30

 

SK1a       2/54  “Calendar style” numerals

 

SK1b      8/54  Serif-style numerals

 

SK2a     11/54  Serif style PRR and numerals

 

SK2b     11/57  Plain style PRR and numerals

 

PK            6/60

 

Where SK is Shadow Keystone and PK is Plain Keystone, and the dates given are the inaugural dates of each scheme.  Hope this helps.  –Ed Shoben

 

 


Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello All,

Was there a keystone herald prior to the circle keystone version of 1/30?

Thanks & Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jun 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, 'Shoben, Edward J' ejshoben@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


I am far from a PRR guru, but I do have access to Ben Hom’s description of lettering for X29 boxcars.  I don’t know of my own knowledge, but I would be very surprised if Ben were in error.  His listing:

 

Circle K 1/30

 

SK1a       2/54  “Calendar style” numerals

 

SK1b      8/54  Serif-style numerals

 

SK2a     11/54  Serif style PRR and numerals

 

SK2b     11/57  Plain style PRR and numerals

 

PK            6/60

 

Where SK is Shadow Keystone and PK is Plain Keystone, and the dates given are the inaugural dates of each scheme.  Hope this helps.  –Ed Shoben

 

 




Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Keene asked:
"Was there a keystone herald prior to the circle keystone version of 1/30?"

No. So that Mantua "1860s" boxcar with the circle keystone is bogus. ;)


Ben Hom


Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Ben,

Thanks. Learned something today. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jun 19, 2017, at 1:53 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bill Keene asked:
"Was there a keystone herald prior to the circle keystone version of 1/30?"

No. So that Mantua "1860s" boxcar with the circle keystone is bogus. ;)

Ben Hom



Eric Hansmann
 

The Pennsylvania Railroad was not the only line without logos on their freight cars in the 1920s. The B&O was not yet applying the Capitol Dome. The Erie seemed to go 10-15 years without applying the diamond herald to their freight cars. The Western Maryland had no logo on freight cars at this time. The New York Central was using their distinctive oval, bt it was NYC Lines, not System.

These are a few of the nuances encountered when modeling the 1920s.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

...for a couple more days...





On June 19, 2017 at 2:53 AM "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bill Keene asked:
"Was there a keystone herald prior to the circle keystone version of 1/30?"

No. So that Mantua "1860s" boxcar with the circle keystone is bogus. ;)

Ben Hom

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Posted by: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>

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Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


SUVCWORR@...
 

No.

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Jun 19, 2017 1:06 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR Keystones ??



Hello All,

Was there a keystone herald prior to the circle keystone version of 1/30?

Thanks & Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jun 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, 'Shoben, Edward J' ejshoben@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


I am far from a PRR guru, but I do have access to Ben Hom’s description of lettering for X29 boxcars.  I don’t know of my own knowledge, but I would be very surprised if Ben were in error.  His listing:

 

Circle K 1/30

 

SK1a       2/54  “Calendar style” numerals

 

SK1b      8/54  Serif-style numerals

 

SK2a     11/54  Serif style PRR and numerals

 

SK2b     11/57  Plain style PRR and numerals

 

PK            6/60

 

Where SK is Shadow Keystone and PK is Plain Keystone, and the dates given are the inaugural dates of each scheme.  Hope this helps.  –Ed Shoben