Tony's Clinic yesterday at BAPM


Jim Betz
 

Hi all - and especially Tony,


  I attended Tony's clinic on 'Signature Freight Cars' at the Bay Area

Prototype Modeler's meet in Richmond, Ca. I have a couple of

questions I'd like to toss out to the group.  Is this topic correct

for this group?

                                                                               - Jim B.


Rob M.
 

For those of us too distant to attend, I think it would be a great discussion!

Rob Mondichak


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Tony also gave the web address for the notes to his presentation. He also brought a display train highlighting the cars he discussed so the audience (and everybody else) could see the real cars instead of just photos. Of course, he also brought an SP consol and caboose to make it a real train.


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  Tony's clinic is available online from MRH, back issues April 2013 and
March 2015.  The text of those articles is essentially the same as what
Tony presented at BAPM here in the SF Bay Area yesterday.
                                                                                            - Jim


Tony Thompson
 

  Tony's clinic is available online from MRH, back issues April 2013 and
March 2015.  The text of those articles is essentially the same as what
Tony presented at BAPM here in the SF Bay Area yesterday.

      The written version does not have all the graphical info about individual railroad car fleets, but does have more about the individual models and how they were developed. The articles are better for some aspects, less complete for other aspects.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Jim Betz
 

Tony (and all),

  Yesterday you said "you can do the same thing for your layout ... I'm
going to present what my thinking process was for my SP 1953 layout"
(sic - but essentially what you said ... ???).

  The parts I didn't hear from you yesterday were comments about
how those national averages (percentages) of the freight car fleet
should be modified due to regional aspects (such as a West
Coast theme).  Would you expand on that a bit here please?

  I have heard many, many times and from many different guys
that the number of home road cars, on any RR and on any one 
day, is usually between 40% and 60% of the total cars on the 
RR that day.  Do you like those numbers for our layouts?

  Additionally - we need to also consider the industries on our
layouts.  For instance if you don't have any receivers of
tank cars (such as an oil dealer or another industry) then
the use and/or number of tank cars changes ... compared
to when you do have a particular industry.
  Some quick examples of industries that affect the freight
car fleet are lumber mills, mines, power plants, fishing
canneries, food canneries, oil and gas dealers, warehouses,
cement plants, quarries, manufacturing, steel mills, etc., etc.,
etc.
  To my way of thinking you want to first plan for the car types
you will need to serve on layout industries - then you start to
apply the percentages of home road cars (paying attention
to particular car types dictated by these same industries),
and finally you need to "fill out your layout roster" with the
cars based upon both national percentages -and- regional
variations.
  Do you agree with these concepts?  (I think you do - but
you didn't talk about it yesterday during your clinic).   

  And, for some car types, you also have to consider
the empties in/loads out thing ... mines, mills, cement
plants, etc. come quickly to mind.

Tony,

  PLEASE don't read the above as a criticism of your
Excellent clinic.  These are "additional ideas that
came to my mind -because of- your clinic".  And my
own spin on how they should/can be handled.
                                                                    - Jim B.


Bruce Smith
 

Jim,


I guess you missed my response to Armand's question on ratios June 13 (message #150564​), where I address most of those points.  A couple of quick pointers.


First, it depends on the car type.  For boxcars and flat cars, the regional bias idea is a myth. For gons, it is partly true and for hoppers it is generally true.


Second, the home fleet at 50% is an AVERAGE.  Boxcars were probably much less, gone about on the average and hoppers over that number.


In my message, I even give you a sequence of how to figure this all out ;)


Regards

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of jimbetz@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 1:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tony's Clinic yesterday at BAPM
 


Tony (and all),

  Yesterday you said "you can do the same thing for your layout ... I'm
going to present what my thinking process was for my SP 1953 layout"
(sic - but essentially what you said ... ???).

  The parts I didn't hear from you yesterday were comments about
how those national averages (percentages) of the freight car fleet
should be modified due to regional aspects (such as a West
Coast theme).  Would you expand on that a bit here please?

  I have heard many, many times and from many different guys
that the number of home road cars, on any RR and on any one 
day, is usually between 40% and 60% of the total cars on the 
RR that day.  Do you like those numbers for our layouts?

  Additionally - we need to also consider the industries on our
layouts.  For instance if you don't have any receivers of
tank cars (such as an oil dealer or another industry) then
the use and/or number of tank cars changes ... compared
to when you do have a particular industry.
  Some quick examples of industries that affect the freight
car fleet are lumber mills, mines, power plants, fishing
canneries, food canneries, oil and gas dealers, warehouses,
cement plants, quarries, manufacturing, steel mills, etc., etc.,
etc.
  To my way of thinking you want to first plan for the car types
you will need to serve on layout industries - then you start to
apply the percentages of home road cars (paying attention
to particular car types dictated by these same industries),
and finally you need to "fill out your layout roster" with the
cars based upon both national percentages -and- regional
variations.
  Do you agree with these concepts?  (I think you do - but
you didn't talk about it yesterday during your clinic).   

  And, for some car types, you also have to consider
the empties in/loads out thing ... mines, mills, cement
plants, etc. come quickly to mind.

Tony,

  PLEASE don't read the above as a criticism of your
Excellent clinic.  These are "additional ideas that
came to my mind -because of- your clinic".  And my
own spin on how they should/can be handled.
                                                                    - Jim B.



Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote:

 

  The parts I didn't hear from you yesterday were comments about how those national averages (percentages) of the freight car fleet should be modified due to regional aspects (such as a West Coast theme).  Would you expand on that a bit here please?


        If you follow Gilber-Nelson, as I do and as I emphasized in the talk, these NATIONAL relations ARE regional. No adjustments.

  I have heard many, many times and from many different guys that the number of home road cars, on any RR and on any one  day, is usually between 40% and 60% of the total cars on the  RR that day.  Do you like those numbers for our layouts?

        Yeah, I have heard lots of numbers thrown about too. But if you look at numbers, for example with SP, you will find home-road numbers not above a third and in some trains down to a fourth of the total. Of course you can choose any percentage that suits you, but most roads of any size with reasonable traffic balance will NOT be anywhere like 60 percent, when you look at actual data. Remember that Gilbert-Nelson relates to bridge-route and through traffic, obviously not for branches or small regional railroads.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Jim Betz
 

Tony,

  Thanks for your answers.                                                             - Jim B.


Clark Propst
 

Jim B wrote:
”I have heard many, many times and from many different guys
that the number of home road cars, on any RR and on any one
day, is usually between 40% and 60% of the total cars on the
RR that day. Do you like those numbers for our layouts?”
 
I’ve studied M&StL agents records and train lists from the 40s and 50s. You’re lucky to find any home road cars. I recently read an employee newsletter from the late 50s mentioning a turndown in national business where they had a high percentage of home road cars (over 50%? can’t remember the number). It stated normal was 6-7%! This was a bridge route. I need to re-read to verify those numbers, but I was shocked at how low it was.
 
In the last train records I transcribed the biggest percentage of box cars was NYC followed not far back by UTLX tank cars.
 
As for my layout – I have to completely revamp my roster from my last layout dealing with an industrial town to my now rural branchline. As an example - I had to sell off over a dozen Armour reefers that were for a packing plant on my old layout and replace them with a small variety of reefers for two canneries on the branch. Which is good because I hate making more than one of anything  ; ))
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Douglas Harding
 

I appreciate Clark’s comment related to the M&StL. I model the M&StL’s mainline in Iowa and am now relieved that I don’t need that many cars lettered for the M&StL. Now the M&StL had sizable cement and coal traffic, and thus hoppers and gons. But during the era of my interest, 1949, most of the coal traffic was central Illinois to Peoria. Very little coal traffic was on the mainline in Iowa. And most of the cement traffic from Mason City went north to Minnesota, again not on the section of track I model. So I don’t need a large number of M&StL hoppers or gons. That is an example of how one needs to know not just their railroad, but the section you plan to model and the type of traffic it carried in your chosen era.

 

I believe this thread started with mention of the need for 50-60% home road cars. If I recall correctly, that number goes back to some Model Railroader (Kalmback Pub) articles from the 50s, which was more modeler wants and speculation, not accurate prototype study of traffic patterns. When I came into the hobby that %figure was still being cited by many modelers, but not rail historians. Since then it has been since displaced by the Gilbert-Nelson studies of prototype patterns, and data such as Clark cited.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Tim O'Connor
 

Doug,

Exactly. Why do we have to keep re-visiting this? Just point people back to
the LENGTHY discussions - with tons of data to back it up - from Tim Gilbert,
Dave Nelson, and many others.

On the SP the -average- of all freight cars was about 30% home road, but that
is because so many GONDOLAS and company service cars remained on line and rarely
left home rails. For BOX CARS, on most major roads, Gilbert-Nelson demonstrated
that the proportions were very close to national proportions during periods of
a healthy economy. For GN and NP, both roads were constantly griping about their
box cars disappearing for long periods of time, producing frequent car shortages.

And people often cite yard photos showing lots of home road cars, until one points
out that cars needing repairs were often held in yards, so it was not unusual to see
long strings of home road cars in a yard. But consists (conductor books) and waybills
are more revealing about actual traffic patterns.

Tim O'Connor




I believe this thread started with mention of the need for 50-60% home road cars. If I recall correctly, that number goes back to some Model Railroader (Kalmback Pub) articles from the 50s, which was more modeler wants and speculation, not accurate prototype study of traffic patterns. When I came into the hobby that %figure was still being cited by many modelers, but not rail historians. Since then it has been since displaced by the Gilbert-Nelson studies of prototype patterns, and data such as Clark cited.
 
Doug  Harding


Bill Welch
 

Just a thought: Would it be possible for someone familiar and has some history in this discussion to take the most relevant posts and files related to this topic and put them into a resource more easily accessible over on the "Steam Era Freight Cars" website? Rob Adams who currently administers the site will be at Collinsville later this week and I would be happy to speak to him about it.

Maybe a two or three person job but this seems to come up from time-to-time. Having the material and the research involved live some place accessible would have great value I think.

Bill Welch


Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

Several of you, including Doug have mistakenly included home road cars the Gilbert-Nelson model.  That model only applies to FOREIGN cars.  Mssr. Gilbert and Nelson indicated this repeatedly.  

The urban legend promulgated in the hobby press was the “nearest neighbor” or “interchange partner” approach, also known as the “regional approach” that Jim postulated in his original email. While false for box cars, it does apply pretty well to hopper traffic.

Home road car percentages vary depending on the road, but the actual numbers for the PRR are right at 50% for most of the steam era…. but again, as I indicated in my post last week, that is an average of all car types.  Unfortunately, the numbers for car types were not broken out in the statistics, but a good estimate is 25% boxcars, 50% gons and 75% hoppers were home road on the PRR. Fortunately for the PRR modeler, these “sub-fleets” were very close in size, each comprising about 1/3 of the total fleet.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jun 18, 2017, at 11:57 PM, 'Doug Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
I believe this thread started with mention of the need for 50-60% home road cars. If I recall correctly, that number goes back to some Model Railroader (Kalmback Pub) articles from the 50s, which was more modeler wants and speculation, not accurate prototype study of traffic patterns. When I came into the hobby that %figure was still being cited by many modelers, but not rail historians. Since then it has been since displaced by the Gilbert-Nelson studies of prototype patterns, and data such as Clark cited. 
 Doug  Harding


devansprr
 

Bruce, All,

I have been following the freight car distribution concept for many years on this and other lists, and Bruce's summary is consistent with the majority of prior posts.

However, there may be an interesting nuance some may need to consider for their layouts - routing of MTY box cars.

The G-N model applies to loaded Box Cars, but the RR's had the option to deliver MTY's to each car's nearest home road interchange if it interchanged with that road (as opposed to routing it to the road it received the car from while loaded). If your modeled road has a significant flow of empties for your era (as did all of the PRR's WWII WB mainline traffic between Philadelphia and points west - the majority of WB box cars were empties), then some interesting distortions are likely, or even essential to model (to keep your yard crews on their toes!)

Specific to the PRR at Harrisburg, PA, any MTY B&O box car was routed west down to Martinsburg, WV, and any NYC MTY box car was routed west up towards Newberry Junction near Williamsport, PA. So even though these two roads had, during WWII, the fourth and second largest US boxcar fleets respectively (behind the PRR), WB MTY B&O and NYC box cars on the mainline out of Harrisburg would not be seen. So only loaded B&O and NYCentral box cars would appear on the ML west of Harrisburg, and since loads were less than 1/2 of the WB consists, they would be under-represented. Conversely, the PRR's Cumberland Valley line from Harrisburg towards Martinsburg would have a whole bunch of B&O boxcars in WB consists (on a line with a fraction of the WB mainline traffic.)

So delivery of MTY's to their home road interchanges could significantly distort the G-N distribution model, if you are modeling such a location.

This data is from a PRR document snagged on e-bay - an 87 page general notice for yard agents on where to route MTY's. Where the PRR routed MTY cars with PRR-home road interchanges appears, in general, to be biased towards the shortest run - so east coast ATSF MTY's on the PRR were routed to Chicago, not East St. Louis (150 miles further away.)

But there are some interesting exceptions - a quick scan of the PRR's routing of MTY B&O and NYCentral cars would suggest a bias towards delivering MTY's to locations that were rather remote points on the B&O and NYC systems - almost as if the PRR was making life more difficult for the B&O and NYC. (e.g. for NYCentral MTY's in Philadelphia, the document specifies routing the MTY cars to Newberry Junction, PA, (200 miles distant, in central PA, far from the heart of the NYCentral's mainlines), instead of South Amboy NJ (83 miles away.))

RR wars...

Dave Evans


---In STMFC@..., <smithbf@...> wrote :

Folks,

Several of you, including Doug have mistakenly included home road cars the Gilbert-Nelson model.  That model only applies to FOREIGN cars.  Mssr. Gilbert and Nelson indicated this repeatedly.  

The urban legend promulgated in the hobby press was the “nearest neighbor” or “interchange partner” approach, also known as the “regional approach” that Jim postulated in his original email. While false for box cars, it does apply pretty well to hopper traffic.

Home road car percentages vary depending on the road, but the actual numbers for the PRR are right at 50% for most of the steam era…. but again, as I indicated in my post last week, that is an average of all car types.  Unfortunately, the numbers for car types were not broken out in the statistics, but a good estimate is 25% boxcars, 50% gons and 75% hoppers were home road on the PRR. Fortunately for the PRR modeler, these “sub-fleets” were very close in size, each comprising about 1/3 of the total fleet.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


Jim Betz
 

Doug,

If you had been able to attend Tony's clinic Saturday you
would have understood his focus on the percentages of the
national fleet. That isn't a criticism - it's an acknowledgement
of how difficult it is to read and get the same 'feeling' out of
a clinic as you do if you are there in attendance - and I
understand why you weren't there. ;-) The part that is
missing when you read Tony's blog -vs- when you are
there when he is presenting the same topic are the
nuances of expression (the "emphasis").
And, as Tony himself pointed out, the version of his
clinic that was published in MRH does not include -all-
of the charts he presented at BAPM. Those extra charts
showed how he arrived at the final ones for his analysis of
the national freight car fleet - what he did to make better
sense out of the raw data.
An example will explain this better than just words ... one
of the things that Tony did was to eliminate hoppers being
used in mineral service because they skew the numbers.
(Yes, grasshopper, if you are modeling a coal road you can
have - actually NEED - a lot of home road coal hoppers.)

What Tony said - and has reaffirmed in posts here since -
is that if your home road has a smaller percentage of the
national freight car fleet ... you can expect that your
home road will have a smaller percentage of home road
cars "on your layout". And, if I'm understanding Tony
correctly, the number of home road to off road cars
will be different (some number more than the national
average) ... but not as significantly different as you
might think by the oft quoted (and usually erroneous)
percentages such as 40% to 60% (which I suspect that I
shouldn't even be citing those numbers here because it
tends to propagate them even though I'm saying you
shouldn't use them).

There is one aspect that I suspect does contribute to
the increases in home road cars - "captive service".
There are several car types which didn't roam much at
all during the STMFC era (and the further back you push
your date the more this is true). For example, any
cars used in mineral service, cars used by a specific
industry (such as cement hoppers).
In addition, there are "rushes" ... both seasonal and
some for a particular 'era' ... for example the building
boom in California during the 50's tended to keep
flat cars (lumber) busy running back and forth between
the PNW and California.

However, as has been pointed out many times - for
box cars especially - you can't go 'wrong' if you simply
use the national percentages of the car fleet (for your
chosen era).
- Jim B.

P.S. Tony - I have tried to represent you faithfully - if I
have missed on anything PLEASE correct me.

________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Tony's Clinic yesterday at BAPM
Posted by: "Doug Harding" doug.harding@... hardingdouglas
Date: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:58 pm ((PDT))

I appreciate Clark's comment related to the M&StL. I model the M&StL's
mainline in Iowa and am now relieved that I don't need that many cars
lettered for the M&StL. Now the M&StL had sizable cement and coal traffic,
and thus hoppers and gons. But during the era of my interest, 1949, most of
the coal traffic was central Illinois to Peoria. Very little coal traffic
was on the mainline in Iowa. And most of the cement traffic from Mason City
went north to Minnesota, again not on the section of track I model. So I
don't need a large number of M&StL hoppers or gons. That is an example of
how one needs to know not just their railroad, but the section you plan to
model and the type of traffic it carried in your chosen era.


I believe this thread started with mention of the need for 50-60% home road
cars. If I recall correctly, that number goes back to some Model Railroader
(Kalmback Pub) articles from the 50s, which was more modeler wants and
speculation, not accurate prototype study of traffic patterns. When I came
into the hobby that %figure was still being cited by many modelers, but not
rail historians. Since then it has been since displaced by the
Gilbert-Nelson studies of prototype patterns, and data such as Clark cited.


Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Tim O'Connor
 


Dave Evans wrote

  > the RR's had the option to deliver MTY's to each car's nearest home road
  > interchange if it interchanged with that road (as opposed to routing it to
  > the road it received the car from while loaded).

While true, RR's also had the option to deliver MTY's AWAY from the home road,
including to other railroads (!) if the intention was to load the car "in the
direction of" the home road. In other words, if the D&H or CNJ were crying for
empty box cars, the PRR could send ATSF or SP empties east from Harrisburg to
New Jersey or New York for loading - but not necessarily back to the ATSF. For
example, the load may only be headed west from NJ or NY. In this way, it would
be perfectly legal and valid to hijack an ATSF box car and ping-pong it back
and forth between PA and NJ, for example - forever. If the car was new and had
roller bearings, well ... why not? Of course per diem had to be paid, but it was
so low (by Law) back then that it did not cover the cost of ownership of new cars.

There are 18 separate car service rules in the 1953 ORER and most of them have
subsections - I don't know whether anyone has gone through them with a fine tooth
comb to see if they are completely consistent i.e. whether they contain any
contradictions of one another. They certainly seem to contain ambiguities. The
ORER includes a few Q&A statements since the implications of the rules are often
not obvious to the reader.

Tim O'Connor


Tony Thompson
 

Dave Evans wrote:

 

This data is from a PRR document snagged on e-bay - an 87 page general notice for yard agents on where to route MTY's. Where the PRR routed MTY cars with PRR-home road interchanges appears, in general, to be biased towards the shortest run - so east coast ATSF MTY's on the PRR were routed to Chicago, not East St. Louis (150 miles further away.)


     I would think most railroads would have had "Equipment Instructions" to serve the purpose Dave describes. I have seen a couple of SP ones, and of course such documents are rare because they were re-issued frequently, and the old one thrown away. I constructed a document of this kind for the SP Coast Division (which I model), in the format and with much of the content I had seen in the prototype documents. This was described in the blog post below. The document itself is on Google Drive (formerly called Google Docs), and the link to it there is contained in the blog post I have linked here:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Aley, Jeff A
 

Dave and Tony,

 

                Am I correct in assuming that these documents were prepared in accordance with SCO 99 [I think that’s the right number]?

 

                SCO 99 was a Special Car Order that directed the movement of empties back to their owners by the shortest route, INSTEAD of routing them back via the way they came.  I’m sure a search of the archives will reveal a learned discussion on this topic, from gurus who know far more about it than I do.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 10:23 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tony's Clinic yesterday at BAPM

 

 

Dave Evans wrote:



 

This data is from a PRR document snagged on e-bay - an 87 page general notice for yard agents on where to route MTY's. Where the PRR routed MTY cars with PRR-home road interchanges appears, in general, to be biased towards the shortest run - so east coast ATSF MTY's on the PRR were routed to Chicago, not East St. Louis (150 miles further away.)

 

     I would think most railroads would have had "Equipment Instructions" to serve the purpose Dave describes. I have seen a couple of SP ones, and of course such documents are rare because they were re-issued frequently, and the old one thrown away. I constructed a document of this kind for the SP Coast Division (which I model), in the format and with much of the content I had seen in the prototype documents. This was described in the blog post below. The document itself is on Google Drive (formerly called Google Docs), and the link to it there is contained in the blog post I have linked here:

 

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 

 


Aley, Jeff A
 

Tim O’Connor recommended searching the archives.  The implication is that the data in the STMFC archives, but I found this data that pre-dates STMFC (see the 20-year old message below)

 

I believe the interpretation of the data is this:

Taking the first row, of all the cars on the B&A during 1944, 5.21% of them were home-road cars and 94.79% were foreign-road cars.

 

> From: Dave Nelson

> To: Freight Car List Server

> Subject: Re: Freight Car Distribution Probabilities

> Date: Saturday, April 19, 1997 1:43 AM

>

> Here are some real numbers (annual averages for 1944) taken from

> Railway Age.  I beleive April data is missing.  The percentage

> shown is for cars on home tracks, not percentage of home fleet.

>

> I'll do some spreadsheet work to see if I can make some

> add'l estimates of how many Pensy, NYC, etc. cars would

> be online each of these roads *assuming a homogeneous

> distribution*.  Might be interesting; the first cut

> has the NYC showing about 5% of the national _offline_

> fleet of cars for September, 1944.

>

> Dave

> -----------

>

>

> Online.XLS                      

> 4/18/97                            

> Home vs foreign                          

> cars for 1944                  

>             Annual, as percentage.

>             Home    Foreign

> New England                 

> B&A   5.21%    94.79%

> B&M  16.79%  83.21%

>

> Great Lakes                   

> D&H   35.56%  64.44%

> Erie     24.80%  75.20%

> NYC    30.81%  69.19%

> NKP    15.79%  84.21%

> WAB  31.38%  68.62%

>

> Central East                   

> B&O   40.44%  59.56%

> CNJ     24.31%  75.69%

> PRR    49.71%  50.29%

>

> Pocahontas                    

> C&O   68.52%  31.48%

> N&W 78.20%  21.80%

>

> Southern                        

> ACL     28.42%  71.58%

> IC        35.26%  64.74%

> LN       65.95%  34.05%

> SOU   32.42%  67.58%

>

> Northwest                     

> C&NW               40.75%  59.25%

> CMStP&P         43.46%  56.54%

> GN      52.33%  47.67%

> NP      45.16%  54.84%

>

> Central West                 

> ATSF  46.39%  53.61%

> CB&Q 35.75%  64.25%

> CRI&P                31.31%  68.69%

> D&RGW            49.16%  50.84%

> SP       30.55%  69.45%

> UP      39.75%  60.25%

>

> Southwest                     

> MP     28.30%  71.70%

> T&NO                17.10%  82.90%

 

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tony's Clinic yesterday at BAPM

 

 

Jim Betz wrote:

 

 

  The parts I didn't hear from you yesterday were comments about how those national averages (percentages) of the freight car fleet should be modified due to regional aspects (such as a West Coast theme).  Would you expand on that a bit here please?

 

        If you follow Gilber-Nelson, as I do and as I emphasized in the talk, these NATIONAL relations ARE regional. No adjustments.



  I have heard many, many times and from many different guys that the number of home road cars, on any RR and on any one  day, is usually between 40% and 60% of the total cars on the  RR that day.  Do you like those numbers for our layouts?

 

        Yeah, I have heard lots of numbers thrown about too. But if you look at numbers, for example with SP, you will find home-road numbers not above a third and in some trains down to a fourth of the total. Of course you can choose any percentage that suits you, but most roads of any size with reasonable traffic balance will NOT be anywhere like 60 percent, when you look at actual data. Remember that Gilbert-Nelson relates to bridge-route and through traffic, obviously not for branches or small regional railroads.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

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