Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon


John Barry
 

Two more of this distinctive end, spotted next to a composite gon with a Hutchins end.



 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC YahooGroup
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Gondola with coiled end corrugation

 


In the Wabash album of the Barrenger collection is this gondola with a very unusual end corrugation.  Looks like a coiled form was used to press the continuous corregation.  Any ideas whose car this is?  The same pattern end is on the opposite end as you can see the hollow side.  I think I found a project for my vaccuform!
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



Eric Hansmann
 

John,

The Monon had a number of gondolas with this kind of pressed steel end reminiscent of a Van Dorn end. If you look closely at the gondola with this end, you can make out part of MONON in the shadow near the top left corner of the car.


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN



On July 1, 2017 at 10:20 PM "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



Two more of this distinctive end, spotted next to a composite gon with a Hutchins end.



 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC YahooGroup <stmfc@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Gondola with coiled end corrugation

 
 


In the Wabash album of the Barrenger collection is this gondola with a very unusual end corrugation.  Looks like a coiled form was used to press the continuous corregation.  Any ideas whose car this is?  The same pattern end is on the opposite end as you can see the hollow side.  I think I found a project for my vaccuform!
 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736
 





Posted by: John Barry <northbaylines@...>


John Barry
 

Eric,

Thanks,  I've not had a chance to examine this on my larger screen.  Do you have a number series and know when they retired?  It would be a very interesting variation to model.  A little late in the same album is another photo with more of these unique ends plus another Hutchins ended gon.

John
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2017 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon

 
John,
The Monon had a number of gondolas with this kind of pressed steel end reminiscent of a Van Dorn end. If you look closely at the gondola with this end, you can make out part of MONON in the shadow near the top left corner of the car.

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On July 1, 2017 at 10:20 PM "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" wrote:



Two more of this distinctive end, spotted next to a composite gon with a Hutchins end.



 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC YahooGroup
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Gondola with coiled end corrugation

 
 


In the Wabash album of the Barrenger collection is this gondola with a very unusual end corrugation.  Looks like a coiled form was used to press the continuous corregation.  Any ideas whose car this is?  The same pattern end is on the opposite end as you can see the hollow side.  I think I found a project for my vaccuform!
 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736
 





Posted by: John Barry



Schuyler Larrabee
 

Actually, three. The last car in the string also appears to have a “coiled” end.


Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2017 12:21 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon





Two more of this distinctive end, spotted next to a composite gon with a Hutchins end.



30 021 <https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/19140882098/in/album-72157652984498874/>











Image removed by sender.


30 021







John Barry



ATSF North Bay Lines

Golden Gates & Fast Freights

Lovettsville, VA



707-490-9696



PO Box 44736

Washington, DC 20026-4736



_____

From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC YahooGroup <stmfc@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Gondola with coiled end corrugation





Wabash164 <https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12296990864/in/album-72157640471385906/>









Image removed by sender.


Wabash164





In the Wabash album of the Barrenger collection is this gondola with a very unusual end corrugation. Looks like a coiled form was used to press the continuous corregation. Any ideas whose car this is? The same pattern end is on the opposite end as you can see the hollow side. I think I found a project for my vaccuform!



John Barry



ATSF North Bay Lines

Golden Gates & Fast Freights < /div>

Lovettsville, VA



707-490-9696



PO Box 44736

Washington, DC 20026-4736







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ray Breyer
 

>>I've not had a chance to examine this on my larger screen.  Do you have a number series and know when they retired? 
>>It would be a very interesting variation to model.  A little late in the same album is another photo with more of these unique
>>ends plus another Hutchins ended gon.
>>John Barry


Hi John,

These can be considered THE standard Monon freight car for the steam era; nearly a quarter (1476 of 6184 freight cars) of their entire freight car fleet in 1930 was made up of these cars, which were essentially "Improved USRA" clones.

31000-31299 - built by the CI&L shops, 1922
32400-33299 - built 1923
33300-33599 - built by Pullman, 7/1923

The cars mostly didn't survive WWII, with only 525 of the cars left in 1945. Per the Monon's 1947 diagram book, only a few were left as captive service stone cars in the 4601-4716 series, with none at all showing up in the revenue roster.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
 



destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote :

These can be considered THE standard Monon freight car for the steam era; nearly a quarter (1476 of 6184 freight cars) of their entire freight car fleet in 1930 was made up of these cars, which were essentially "Improved USRA" clones.

31000-31299 - built by the CI&L shops, 1922
32400-33299 - built 1923
33300-33599 - built by Pullman, 7/1923

The cars mostly didn't survive WWII, with only 525 of the cars left in 1945. Per the Monon's 1947 diagram book, only a few were left as captive service stone cars in the 4601-4716 series, with none at all showing up in the revenue roster.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
==============================

I've been away for a couple days, just catching up, had to read through to see how the turnout discussion turned out :-)

There were two more groups of gondolas built with these ends:

500 tight bottom cars (GB) built by Haskell & Barker in 1921 as Lot 5209 for the Clarkson Coal Mining Co. These cars went to the Soo Line in 1927 as 63801-64799 (odd numbers only).

250 tight bottom cars (GB) built by Pullman Car & Manufacturing Co. (the former Haskell & Barker Michigan City plant) in 1923 as Lot 5345 for the Soo Line, numbered 7001-7499 (odd numbers only). 

Between the two groups, the end pressings faced inward on the 1921 cars, outward on the 1923 order.

I suspect this was a Haskell & Barker proprietary end. When I was organizing the H&B drawing collection at the Pullman Library, I found more information on these ends than on any others; detailed drawings of the pressings that I seem to recall were marked as being for the pressing dies.

I do not recall any other lots using this end, unless some other road ordered just ends for a home shop car building program, this would seem to be the total of cars using this end.

Dennis Storzek




 



John Barry
 

Dennis, Ray, 

Thank you both!  

Checking the Jan 45 ORER, the post war depletion had yet to occur with the following:

CIL 31000, GB, 292 cars
CIL 32400, GS, 743
CIL 33300, GS, 233

SOO 63801, GB, 496 wood floor, 1 steel floor
SOO 7001, GB, 249 

The inward facing pressings on the 7001 series reduced the inside length and capacity compared to the other cars 40'10 vice 41'6 for the rest with a commensurate reduction in cubic capacity.

For my Christmas 44 layout, it seems reasonable that I could see one of the 1268 Monon or 746 SOO cars.

It could be an interesting model.

John
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon

 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

These can be considered THE standard Monon freight car for the steam era; nearly a quarter (1476 of 6184 freight cars) of their entire freight car fleet in 1930 was made up of these cars, which were essentially "Improved USRA" clones.

31000-31299 - built by the CI&L shops, 1922
32400-33299 - built 1923
33300-33599 - built by Pullman, 7/1923

The cars mostly didn't survive WWII, with only 525 of the cars left in 1945. Per the Monon's 1947 diagram book, only a few were left as captive service stone cars in the 4601-4716 series, with none at all showing up in the revenue roster.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
==============================

I've been away for a couple days, just catching up, had to read thro! ugh to see how the turnout discussion turned out :-)

There were two more groups of gondolas built with these ends:

500 tight bottom cars (GB) built by Haskell & Barker in 1921 as Lot 5209 for the Clarkson Coal Mining Co. These cars went to the Soo Line in 1927 as 63801-64799 (odd numbers only).

250 tight bottom cars (GB) built by Pullman Car & Manufacturing Co. (the former Haskell & Barker Michigan City plant) in 1923 as Lot 5345 for the Soo Line, numbered 7001-7499 (odd numbers only). 

Between the two groups, the end pressings faced inward on the 1921 cars, outward on the 1923 order.

I suspect this was a Haskell & Barker proprietary end. When I was organizing the H&B drawing collection at the Pullman Library, I found more information on these ends than on any others; detailed drawings of the pressings that I seem to recall were marked as being for the pressing dies.

I do not recall any other lots using this end, unless some other road ordered just ends for a home shop car building program, this would see! m to be the total of cars using this end.

Dennis Storzek




 





Mike Auf der Heide
 

Folks,

Sorry for the late response on this.  Inspired by the same Barriger  photo, I have modeled both of these ends on Shapeways.  See:


Both of these ends fit the Intermountain USRA car.  By the by the Hutchins end seems to be a replacement on the Monon cars since it only appears on a few cars.

Thanks for the info on the SOO variant!

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide
Modeling Monon 1947