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Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

spsalso
 

I find myself with an unpainted 65 foot mill gon by Precision Scale.  It is part number 15474.  And is referenced as "Bethlehem Steel".


I found one of these factory painted for B&O (part number 15474-2):


https://www.brasstrains.com/BrassGuide/PDG/Detail/18564/HO-Rolling-Stock-Precision-Scale-Co-Baltimore-Ohio-GONDOLA


Now, B&O is a fine railroad, and I wouldn't mind painting mine to match.  But I do wonder what other railroads also had this car.




Ed


Edward Sutorik




Todd Sullivan
 

Ed,

The side stakes (ribs) appear to be spaced closer than the AAR design for these 65ft mill gondolas.  I recall seeing some P&LE and perhaps NYC gondolas that also had close spacing, but I have no idea where to check for photos.

Todd Sullivan

Tim O'Connor
 


CNJ owned this car - I don't know if there were other owners as well.

Richard Hendrickson had one and lettered it for CRP, I think, which was a
short lived CNJ tax dodge immortalized in a Paul Newman movie. :-) Richard's
model was CRP #89065.

Tim O'



I find myself with an unpainted 65 foot mill gon by Precision Scale.  It is part number 15474.  And is referenced as "Bethlehem Steel".

I found one of these factory painted for B&O (part number 15474-2):

https://www.brasstrains.com/BrassGuide/PDG/Detail/18564/HO-Rolling-Stock-Precision-Scale-Co-Baltimore-Ohio-GONDOLA

Now, B&O is a fine railroad, and I wouldn't mind painting mine to match.  But I do wonder what other railroads also had this car.

Edward Sutorik

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Hendrickson had one and lettered it for CRP, I think, which was a
short lived CNJ tax dodge immortalized in a Paul Newman movie. :-) Richard's
model was CRP #89065.


    Ed, I have this car now and can send you a photo of the model, if you like.            Tony Thompson

spsalso
 

Tony, 

I would be thrilled to receive such a photo.

At least for now, it sounds like this was only a CNJ car????

I did look through my two NYC photo books.  The NYC surely loved having lotsa ribs, but I couldn't find a match.

The ends are certainly interesting (2 "reversed" ribs).

I did find a photo (on Fallen Flags, hooray!) of the prototype for the B&O car, and "it ain't it".  

Mine is a very nice looking model, and it would be great to have it in proper lettering (whichever that is).



Ed

Edward Sutorik

Ted Culotta
 

Ed,

PSC produced more than one variant of this model, including the CRP/CNJ and NYC/P&LE cars. Be sure to check which you have. I don't know the stock numbers, but there are differences. Perhaps a check of brasstrains.com will highlight which you have.

Cheers,
Ted

proto48er
 

Guys - PSC imported the same cars in O scale.

 PSC #15499 is an O scale CNJ 67' mill gondola built by Bethlehem Steel.  A photo of the prototype car appears in the 1937 CBC.  The car has somewhat unique drop ends, having inward pressed corrugations with a reinforcing angle riveted inside each corrugation.

PSC #16251 is an O scale 67' NYC mill gondola, Lot 623-G, with "normal looking" drednaught drop ends.

Precision Scale also imported PSC #15497, an O scale PRR class G27 mill gondola in the same project.

A.T. Kott

Tim O'Connor
 


PSC produced multiple 65 foot gondolas

15474 = CRP/CNJ (23 ribs)
15472 = PRR G26 (same prototype as ECW plastic kit, also ALCO imports)
16034 = NYC 623-G (21 ribs)

Tim O'



PSC produced more than one variant of this model, including the CRP/CNJ and NYC/P&LE cars. Be sure to check which you have. I don't know the stock numbers, but there are differences. Perhaps a check of brasstrains.com will highlight which you have.

Cheers,
Ted

spsalso
 

And they managed to offer 15474 in at least one incorrect paint scheme (B&O).

I appreciate everyone's help with this car.  I am looking forward to getting it layout-presentable.

Thanks,


Ed

Edward Sutorik

brianleppert@att.net
 

I have two of the PSC 65-foot mill gons.

#16034-2  Painted and lettered for P&LE's 49300-49499 series cars..  21 side stakes.  Compares well to photo in Freight Car Equipment of the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Railroad Volume 1.

#15474-1  Painted and lettered for Nickle Plate.  23 side stakes. I have no prototype info for NKP 65' cars.

These are both great looking cars.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

Todd Horton
 

I have one of the PSC G26 PRR gons they did. It came in the standard PRR freight car "black" :-)      

I bought it cheap...................
 
Todd Horton



From: "brianleppert@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

 
I have two of the PSC 65-foot mill gons.

#16034-2  Painted and lettered for P&LE's 49300-49499 series cars..  21 side stakes.  Compares well to photo in Freight Car Equipment of the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Railroad Volume 1.

#15474-1  Painted and lettered for Nickle Plate.  23 side stakes. I have no prototype info for NKP 65' cars.

These are both great looking cars.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


SUVCWORR@...
 

Todd,

Then your car is painted incorrectly.  Freight cars were not painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel aka Brunswick Green aka DGLE often mistaken for black.  Fregiht cars were painted in PRR terminology Fregiht Car Color which was an iron sesquioxide based paint --  red orange when first manufacturered as FCC changed over time see   http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/general/172-paints   The only freight cars painted black were open top hoppers beginning with the H36 in the mid 50's

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Horton toddchorton@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Jul 29, 2017 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?



I have one of the PSC G26 PRR gons they did. It came in the standard PRR freight car "black" :-)      

I bought it cheap...................
 
Todd Horton



From: "brianleppert@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

 
I have two of the PSC 65-foot mill gons.

#16034-2  Painted and lettered for P&LE's 49300-49499 series cars..  21 side stakes.  Compares well to photo in Freight Car Equipment of the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Railroad Volume 1.

#15474-1  Painted and lettered for Nickle Plate.  23 side stakes. I have no prototype info for NKP 65' cars.

These are both great looking cars.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV




Todd Horton
 

Rich, thanks I was just having some fun. I'm not sure how PSC missed that one but they did

 
Todd Horton



From: "SUVCWORR@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

 
Todd,

Then your car is painted incorrectly.  Freight cars were not painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel aka Brunswick Green aka DGLE often mistaken for black.  Fregiht cars were painted in PRR terminology Fregiht Car Color which was an iron sesquioxide based paint --  red orange when first manufacturered as FCC changed over time see   http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/general/172-paints   The only freight cars painted black were open top hoppers beginning with the H36 in the mid 50's

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Horton toddchorton@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Jul 29, 2017 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?



I have one of the PSC G26 PRR gons they did. It came in the standard PRR freight car "black" :-)      

I bought it cheap...................
 
Todd Horton



From: "brianleppert@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

 
I have two of the PSC 65-foot mill gons.

#16034-2  Painted and lettered for P&LE's 49300-49499 series cars..  21 side stakes.  Compares well to photo in Freight Car Equipment of the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Railroad Volume 1.

#15474-1  Painted and lettered for Nickle Plate.  23 side stakes. I have no prototype info for NKP 65' cars.

These are both great looking cars.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV






spsalso
 

I found the plans for this car (but no prototype photo) in "Train Shed Cyclopedia No.5"  (1940).  It was definitely CNJ.  Just preceding the plan are two photos of similar (but NOT at all identical) cars: NKP 65018 and B&O 450200.

I expect someone sent the drawings to Korea--"No problem.  What should we paint it?"  And then the NKP and B&O photos were sent.  Or, more likely, the whole book.


I checked out the CNJ car series (89000-89199) in assorted ORER's.

It was in January 1939 as that full series.
In July 1945, that was still true.  There was a listing for CRP, but not for this series.  Still all CNJ.
In October 1947, there were 119 CNJ and 81 CRP.
In October 1950, there were 14 CNJ and 186 CRP.
In July 1956 and April 1961, there were 199 listed with CNJ/CRP (not separated)
In January 1965, 22 CNJ
In October 1966, 3 CNJ
In April 1968, none

Probably much more than you wanted to know, but that 1947--1950 flip in number count is somethin'.

Thanks, all, for your help,


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Ed Hawkins
 


On Jul 30, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I found the plans for this car (but no prototype photo) in "Train Shed Cyclopedia No.5"  (1940).  It was definitely CNJ.  Just preceding the plan are two photos of similar (but NOT at all identical) cars: NKP 65018 and B&O 450200.


Ed,
A Bethlehem Steel Co. builder photo of CNJ 89108, built 1-30, series 89000-89199, was published in the 1931 and 1937 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia on pages 221 and 245, respectively.

Both books also include a related figure with plans that are the same as those in Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 5.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Tim O'Connor
 


I have a PDF of the 1940 Car Builder Cyc - this is the image on page 212.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/timboconnor/36237701146/

Tim O'



I found the plans for this car (but no prototype photo) in "Train Shed Cyclopedia No.5"  (1940).  It was definitely CNJ.  Just preceding the plan are two photos of similar (but NOT at all identical) cars: NKP 65018 and B&O 450200.



 Ed,

 A Bethlehem Steel Co. builder photo of CNJ 89108, built 1-30, series 89000-89199,
 was published in the 1931 and 1937 Car Builders� Cyclopedia on pages 221 and 245,
 respectively.

 Both books also include a related figure with plans that are the same as those in
 Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 5.

 Regards,
 Ed Hawkins

spsalso
 

The drawing that Tim cited is the same one I have in the paperback reprint that I mentioned.

I will have to keep an eye out for a copy of the '31 or '37 Cyclopedia that Ed mentioned.



This has been a fun bit of research about something from the back of the closet.

Thanks, folks, for you help and guidance.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

spsalso
 

Well.

With a full minute of on-line research plus the click of a button, I will apparently be in receipt of the 1937 version, shortly.

There IS an upside to this internet thing.



Ed

Edward Sutorik