Topics

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


hubert mask
 

Coal Shute ?

Hubert Mask 


On Jul 29, 2017, at 1:28 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


SUVCWORR@...
 

The ramp leads to a coal dump for the railroad.  This is an engine servicing facility.  Note the water tank beyond the end of the ramp; the coal chute which can be lowered over a tender on the left of the housing at the top of the ramp.  Note the fire barrels along the right of the ramp.  In the back ground on the left is a station with a train order signal.  On the right, it appears these are livestock pens most likely for loading cars.  There is another facility to the right of the ramp in the background that maybe a grain elevator or fuel tank.  

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Jul 29, 2017 1:27 pm
Subject: [STMFC] What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund



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Posted by: "Claus Schlund" <claus@...>
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D. Scott Chatfield
 

Claus Schlund asked:

>What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

I think it's a rr-owned coaling facility for steam locos.  Note the water tower behind it.  


Scott Chatfield


Steve and Barb Hile
 

Hi Claus,
 
This is, most likely, a simple type of coal dock where coal can be dumped from GS gondolas (mostly) into pockets and then discharged into the waiting tender of the engine on the mainline.  Note that you can see clear through it to the water tank beyond.
 
Steve Hile



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 12:28 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

 

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


Clark Propst
 

Coal for steamers. Push coal cars up the incline and dump into a steamer tender on the adjacent track.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


 

Looks like a livestock pen

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:27 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


np328
 

As other have already stated, it is a "coaling station". I believe that is the proper term. 

    I do not believe that locomotives were coaled directly from gons here. It looks like a very long throw and I would think that there are platforms in the area behind the ladder where coal is shoveled off the gons into bins or buckets or just a flat surface. It then would be shoveled from there onto locomotives. 
    These were called on the NP trestle type coaling stations because they (the NP) could not bring themselves to call them Great Northern type coaling stations. Looking in older records, the GN got (stole)  the idea from the AT&StF.

    Reason I believe there is an intermediary platform: My studied railroad kept tabs on cars being detained for long periods of time and would issue letters to locals to "unload these cars ASAP and get them back into revenue service. Yesterday if not sooner!", and there were quite honestly, real cost involved in retaining cars even home road cars for extended periods of time.

     There is a reprint of a very old engineering book at the Minnesota Historical Society, on the open shelves that in one of the chapters, detailed some of these older style docks. In these reports of various railroads docks was included reports of how much labor costs were involved, down to hundredths of a penny.
      There were also docks were coal was shoveled into fixed bin bodies that could be tilted into the tenders to dump. (think of a mine car dumping) also some times, five ton buckets that could be hoisted over the tender and dumped.

       All in the quest to lower the times that the coal must be handled and therefore, lower the labor costs.
I wonder if this was an important fueling location as the awning over the tender was a convenience not often seen. The water tank looks to be 48,000 gallons or greater. (CNW guys - what was a standard size?)
 
       Also, on the lower left of the track, look at that knife edge on the ballast.   

It would be nice to see more of the tank car and tank farm however all in all, a good photo of past days.     
                                                                                                          Jim Dick - St. Paul MN


Charlie Vlk
 

Claus
The ramp is for a railroad coal dock. The siding serves a stock pen and a fuel depot.
Charlie Vlk


On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:27 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


Jerry Breon
 

While I agree with the majority of group members that the incline ramp in the photo below is leading to a small, steam locomotive coaling facility, I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed?

Thanks,

Jerry Breon

Mooresville, NC 


Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Claus Schlund" clausschlund

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


Charles Morrill
 

A ramp set up like this was used to transfer bulk commodities from narrow gauge cars to standard gauge cars.  The SP had a similar facility at its narrow gauge/standard gauge interchange.
 
Charlie
 

From: Jerry Breon jbreon@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 12:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 


While I agree with the majority of group members that the incline ramp in the photo below is leading to a small, steam locomotive coaling facility, I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed?

Thanks,

Jerry Breon

Mooresville, NC

 

Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Claus Schlund" clausschlund

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


mark_landgraf
 

The LV had a coal transfer facility in Rochester NY  that was about twice as high. It could store and dump into hopper‎s on the sides. 

This CNW facility is a little strange in that there is not enough elevational change ‎to make the coal flow. The ramp is also very clean, unlike the LV ramp that was heavily covered in coal. Maybe the CNW facility wasn't for coal. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

From: 'Charles Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

 

A ramp set up like this was used to transfer bulk commodities from narrow gauge cars to standard gauge cars.  The SP had a similar facility at its narrow gauge/standard gauge interchange.
 
Charlie
 

From: Jerry Breon jbreon@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 12:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 


While I agree with the majority of group members that the incline ramp in the photo below is leading to a small, steam locomotive coaling facility, I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed?

Thanks,

Jerry Breon

Mooresville, NC

 

Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Claus Schlund" clausschlund

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund



Douglas Harding
 

Remember many of the trestle style coaling stations were built in the early days of railroading. Engines were small, labor was cheap. The first were indeed simple raised platforms on which coal was shoveled from a gon, then when an engine needed coaling the crew shoveled coal form the platform to the tender. As engines got larger the trestles got taller, and bins replaced the platforms. Many were covered. One or more gons or hoppers were shoved up the trestle and coal was shoveled or dumped into the bins. The bins had chutes on the side so an engine could be coaled by spotting the tender under the chute. The coaling station with a trestle was used by many railroads up into the 20s. But I believe they are all gone, replaced with coaling towers. As engine size increased, the appetite for coal grew, but also the distance an engine could go on one load of coal. Railroads began replacing their trestle coaling stations with coaling towers for faster more efficient coaling of locomotives. The first were built out of wood, but then concrete and steel. Some of these concrete behemoths still stand, no longer used and stripped of their metal parts.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:32 PM
To: 'Charles Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC]
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

 

 

The LV had a coal transfer facility in Rochester NY  that was about twice as high. It could store and dump into hopper‎s on the sides. 

 

This CNW facility is a little strange in that there is not enough elevational change ‎to make the coal flow. The ramp is also very clean, unlike the LV ramp that was heavily covered in coal. Maybe the CNW facility wasn't for coal. 

 

Mark Landgraf

Albany NY

 

From: 'Charles Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC]

Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:49 PM

Reply To: STMFC@...

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

 

 

A ramp set up like this was used to transfer bulk commodities from narrow gauge cars to standard gauge cars.  The SP had a similar facility at its narrow gauge/standard gauge interchange.

 

Charlie

 

From: Jerry Breon jbreon@... [STMFC]

Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 12:15 PM

Subject: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

 




While I agree with the majority of group members that the incline ramp in the photo below is leading to a small, steam locomotive coaling facility, I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed?

Thanks,

Jerry Breon

Mooresville, NC

 

Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Claus Schlund" clausschlund

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund

 




Dennis Storzek
 

---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <mark_landgraf@...> wrote :





This CNW facility is a little strange in that there is not enough elevational change ‎to make the coal flow. The ramp is also very clean, unlike the LV ramp that was heavily covered in coal. Maybe the CNW facility wasn't for coal.


Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

===================


And what would it be for? It's not a transfer facility, as the only track it serves is the main line.

It may just be out of service. These empty the gon with a shovel, then shovel into the tender facilities were painfully labor intensive, and were eventually superseded by either coaling towers, or mechanized plants. As the railroads adopted larger capacity tenders, a lot of these intermediate coaling facilities were no longer needed, but possibly left in place against future need, until the decision was made to tear them down. The Soo Line had several of these through central Wisconsin; as far as I know, none lasted beyond WWII.

Dennis Storzek


Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Some of these coaling stations did not have even platforms.  A coal-carrying-gondola was spotted and blocked on the top of a raised track.  Manual labor moved the coal from the car directly to the tender of the locomotive strategically spotted on an adjacent track.  No cover, no lighting, no platform, no chutes, no machinery, and no extra help for the one worker who did this between the switching shifts of those terminals.  He was likely also the keeper of the locomotive's fire and the night watchman.  Times have changed.

From Grove City, Penna.----Mike Schleigh 


From: "'Doug Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

 
Remember many of the trestle style coaling stations were built in the early days of railroading. Engines were small, labor was cheap. The first were indeed simple raised platforms on which coal was shoveled from a gon, then when an engine needed coaling the crew shoveled coal form the platform to the tender. As engines got larger the trestles got taller, and bins replaced the platforms. Many were covered. One or more gons or hoppers were shoved up the trestle and coal was shoveled or dumped into the bins. The bins had chutes on the side so an engine could be coaled by spotting the tender under the chute. The coaling station with a trestle was used by many railroads up into the 20s. But I believe they are all gone, replaced with coaling towers. As engine size increased, the appetite for coal grew, but also the distance an engine could go on one load of coal. Railroads began replacing their trestle coaling stations with coaling towers for faster more efficient coaling of locomotives. The first were built out of wood, but then concrete and steel. Some of these concrete behemoths still stand, no longer used and stripped of their metal parts.
 
Doug  Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:32 PM
To: 'Charles Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC]
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 
 
The LV had a coal transfer facility in Rochester NY  that was about twice as high. It could store and dump into hopper‎s on the sides. 
 
This CNW facility is a little strange in that there is not enough elevational change ‎to make the coal flow. The ramp is also very clean, unlike the LV ramp that was heavily covered in coal. Maybe the CNW facility wasn't for coal. 
 
Mark Landgraf
Albany NY
 
From: 'Charles Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:49 PM
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 
 
A ramp set up like this was used to transfer bulk commodities from narrow gauge cars to standard gauge cars.  The SP had a similar facility at its narrow gauge/standard gauge interchange.
 
Charlie
 
From: Jerry Breon jbreon@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 12:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 



While I agree with the majority of group members that the incline ramp in the photo below is leading to a small, steam locomotive coaling facility, I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed?
Thanks,
Jerry Breon
Mooresville, NC
 
Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Claus Schlund" clausschlund

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund
 





np328
 

Jerry Breon wrote:  I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed? 

Those were called Transfer Stations, however if you look for Transfer Stations, you will find that covers quite a lot, such as dry goods transfer in addition to mineral transfer. 
                                                                                                         Jim Dick - St. Paul