[EXTERNAL] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

That IS a great photo. I just love flat cars in general, but the oddballs even more.

I don't know the details, but MILW had a nice (small) fleet of HD flats, including those nice cast steel GSC 4-trucks flats. Very like the PRR F34's.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:01 AM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car




This is a fascinating photo - I'm guessing circa 1940, with the heavy duty
flat car pressed into service to carry large timbers. But clearly the car is
very overqualified for this duty. Those hills in the background and the Harriman
cars give me the feeling this could be San Luis Obispo, California, on the
Coast Line. And that SP B-50-19 box car... is that a Klasing brake wheel??

Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191 <Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191>

Tim O'Connor


Bruce Smith
 

Elden,

I agree, with one minor point and that is that the PRR F34s were cast bodies (kits) from GSC and the MILW car has a neat riveted bodies :)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Sep 26, 2017, at 8:10 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

That IS a great photo.  I just love flat cars in general, but the oddballs even more.

I don't know the details, but MILW had a nice (small) fleet of HD flats, including those nice cast steel GSC 4-trucks flats.  Very like the PRR F34's.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:01 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car




This is a fascinating photo - I'm guessing circa 1940, with the heavy duty
flat car pressed into service to carry large timbers. But clearly the car is
very overqualified for this duty. Those hills in the background and the Harriman
cars give me the feeling this could be San Luis Obispo, California, on the
Coast Line. And that SP B-50-19 box car... is that a Klasing brake wheel??

Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191 <Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191>

Tim O'Connor






------------------------------------
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)" <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

<*> Your email settings:
   Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join
   (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
   STMFC-digest@...
   STMFC-fullfeatured@...

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   STMFC-unsubscribe@...

<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
   https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/



Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bruce;

I was just saying that the MILW also had cast steel 4-truck flats like the F34. Any idea how long these guys lasted?

Speaking of riveted flats, these early 20thC HD flats have that proliferation of riveting because they were sandwiching numerous plates together to get the necessary strength to resist failure, and in such great cases as this, the riveting almost overwhelms the available space in which to rivet!

One of my most favorite flats is the PRR F25 well flats, on which they sandwiched several shaped plates along the bottom of the side, to achieve necessary strength, and resulted in a really one of a kind look.

There weren't a lot of roads that owned HD, depressed center, well and well hole cars, but they sure are beautiful.

Love these cars!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:31 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car



Elden,

I agree, with one minor point and that is that the PRR F34s were cast bodies (kits) from GSC and the MILW car has a neat riveted bodies :)

Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

Blockedhttps://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Sep 26, 2017, at 8:10 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:

That IS a great photo. I just love flat cars in general, but the oddballs even more.

I don't know the details, but MILW had a nice (small) fleet of HD flats, including those nice cast steel GSC 4-trucks flats. Very like the PRR F34's.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:01 AM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:stmfc@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car




This is a fascinating photo - I'm guessing circa 1940, with the heavy duty
flat car pressed into service to carry large timbers. But clearly the car is
very overqualified for this duty. Those hills in the background and the Harriman
cars give me the feeling this could be San Luis Obispo, California, on the
Coast Line. And that SP B-50-19 box car... is that a Klasing brake wheel??

BlockedBlockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191 <BlockedBlockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191>

Tim O'Connor






------------------------------------
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)" <Elden.J.Gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:Elden.J.Gatwood@usace.army.mil> >
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 9/26/2017 6:43 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] wrote:
Speaking of riveted flats

    Seems this is similar to a flat Red Ball made.  Don't remember if the rivets were close or not.  Might have been a good stand in.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Jon;

I wish I had my old Red Balls. One of them was a kit based on an old P&LE prototype. Never did the research, but it was one cool car.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:09 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car



On 9/26/2017 6:43 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> [STMFC] wrote:


Speaking of riveted flats

Seems this is similar to a flat Red Ball made. Don't remember if the rivets were close or not. Might have been a good stand in.


--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Benjamin Hom
 

Elden Gatwood wrote:
"Speaking of riveted flats, these early 20thC HD flats have that
proliferation of riveting because they were sandwiching numerous plates
together to get the necessary strength to resist failure, and in such
great cases as this, the riveting almost overwhelms the available space
in which to rivet!

One of my most favorite flats is the PRR F25 well flats, on which they
sandwiched several shaped plates along the bottom of the side, to
achieve necessary strength, and resulted in a really one of a kind look."

Jon Miller replied:
"Seems this is similar to a flat Red Ball made.  Don't remember if the rivets were close or not.  Might have been a good stand in."

The Red Ball sides are actually pretty good.
http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/PRR-Photographs-Lost-to-History/PRR%20F25%20Flat%20Car%20-435475%20ME3605%20BLT%202-16%201024x.jpg
http://hoseeker.net/redball/redballpennsemiwellflatcar.jpg  

The biggest issue with building this kit following the instructions is the cross-section of the well is trapezoidal, with the sides angled in towards the centerline to provide clearance.  See Ian Fischer's "Remodeling The Red Ball Pennsylvania Railroad F-25 Well Car" in the December 1981 issue of Prototype Modeler for more details on how to correct this classic kit.


Ben Hom


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ben;

I'd agree. The Red Ball F25 sides are actually pretty good, but you have to do a scratched deck, well ends, sill ends and underbody, which halted me at some point. The lack of decals at that time was the final nail for me. I ultimately did a set of SK decals for a Rail Classics model I did finish, and was finally satisfied. I never did do an F25B, C, D or E, (diagonal plate loader or tank head loader), which would have involved a lot of work, but boy, what a unique car that would be!

I looked for the photo I had of the prototype for the Red Ball P&LE flat, and was wondering if anyone knew what lot number that car was?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 1:45 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car



Elden Gatwood wrote:
"Speaking of riveted flats, these early 20thC HD flats have that
proliferation of riveting because they were sandwiching numerous plates
together to get the necessary strength to resist failure, and in such
great cases as this, the riveting almost overwhelms the available space
in which to rivet!

One of my most favorite flats is the PRR F25 well flats, on which they
sandwiched several shaped plates along the bottom of the side, to
achieve necessary strength, and resulted in a really one of a kind look."

Jon Miller replied:
"Seems this is similar to a flat Red Ball made. Don't remember if the rivets were close or not. Might have been a good stand in."

The Red Ball sides are actually pretty good.
Blockedhttp://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/PRR-Photographs-Lost-to-History/PRR%20F25%20Flat%20Car%20-435475%20ME3605%20BLT%202-16%201024x.jpg <Blockedhttp://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/PRR-Phot ographs-Lost-to-History/PRR%20F25%20Flat%20Car%20-435475%20ME3605%20BLT%202-16%201024x.jpg>
Blockedhttp://hoseeker.net/redball/redballpennsemiwellflatcar.jpg


The biggest issue with building this kit following the instructions is the cross-section of the well is trapezoidal, with the sides angled in towards the centerline to provide clearance. See Ian Fischer's "Remodeling The Red Ball Pennsylvania Railroad F-25 Well Car" in the December 1981 issue of Prototype Modeler for more details on how to correct this classic kit.


Ben Hom


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gang;

So, looking at the ORER "Heavy Capacity and Special Type Flat Cars" table provides interesting reading. Obviously NYC and PRR had the biggest fleets, but some of the others are very interesting, too.

Unfortunately, 67053 cannot be found at the end of this list, but there appears 601051 and 601052, maybe in their place. Are these the cast steel cars as replacements? Anyone know the history of HD flats on the MILW?

Similarly, what do you guys know about the FW cars on B&O, C&O, D&H, LV, RDG, WM, MILW, GN, MP, UP, and CP? They are so rare, each one must have a unique history!

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 1:45 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car



Elden Gatwood wrote:
"Speaking of riveted flats, these early 20thC HD flats have that
proliferation of riveting because they were sandwiching numerous plates
together to get the necessary strength to resist failure, and in such
great cases as this, the riveting almost overwhelms the available space
in which to rivet!

One of my most favorite flats is the PRR F25 well flats, on which they
sandwiched several shaped plates along the bottom of the side, to
achieve necessary strength, and resulted in a really one of a kind look."

Jon Miller replied:
"Seems this is similar to a flat Red Ball made. Don't remember if the rivets were close or not. Might have been a good stand in."

The Red Ball sides are actually pretty good.
Blockedhttp://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/PRR-Photographs-Lost-to-History/PRR%20F25%20Flat%20Car%20-435475%20ME3605%20BLT%202-16%201024x.jpg <Blockedhttp://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/PRR-Phot ographs-Lost-to-History/PRR%20F25%20Flat%20Car%20-435475%20ME3605%20BLT%202-16%201024x.jpg>
Blockedhttp://hoseeker.net/redball/redballpennsemiwellflatcar.jpg


The biggest issue with building this kit following the instructions is the cross-section of the well is trapezoidal, with the sides angled in towards the centerline to provide clearance. See Ian Fischer's "Remodeling The Red Ball Pennsylvania Railroad F-25 Well Car" in the December 1981 issue of Prototype Modeler for more details on how to correct this classic kit.


Ben Hom


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 9/27/2017 11:52 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] wrote:
Unfortunately, 67053 cannot be found at the end of this list

    My old eyes aren't that good but that could be 67058.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Benjamin Hom
 

Elden Gatwood wrote:
"I'd agree. The Red Ball F25 sides are actually pretty good, but you have to do a scratched deck, well ends, sill ends and underbody, which halted me at some point. The lack of decals at that time was the final nail for me. I ultimately did a set of SK decals for a Rail Classics model I did finish, and was finally satisfied. I never did do an F25B, C, D or E, (diagonal plate loader or tank head loader), which would have involved a lot of work, but boy, what a unique car that would be!"

I've got two of these in the stash.  It might be time to cut a deal with John Frantz for a decal set.


"I looked for the photo I had of the prototype for the Red Ball P&LE flat, and was wondering if anyone knew what lot number that car was?"

My best guess is P&LE 6885-6889, Lot R-1, built 1911 at McKees Rocks.  Unfortunately, the best I can do is a clearance diagram on Terry Link's site, which for the NYCS are pretty minimalist:

This would be another neat project as the cars lasted until 1957.


Ben Hom


Charlie Vlk
 

I see 67058 as well.  Looks like one of the MILW “gun flats” that MDC had in their line with the ends extended to accommodate the bolstered tandem trucks!

Charlie Vlk

.



Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

You are right!

It looks from my ORER that they grouped their HD/specialty flats into a different higher number series at one point. I will try to find out.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 3:03 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car



On 9/27/2017 11:52 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> [STMFC] wrote:


Unfortunately, 67053 cannot be found at the end of this list

My old eyes aren't that good but that could be 67058.


--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS