Box Car Crack Filler For Grain Transport
|
Thought members would enjoy this interesting excerpt from the Fort Madison, Iowa Evening Democrat - December 18, 1919 USE OF PATENT CRACK FILLER FOR CARS SUCCESSFUL The test of the Baco combination which was recently introduced on the railroads for use in freight cars to stop small grain leakage has been carried on for some time by the Santa Fe and is said by the local employees of the company to be a success in every way. In composition it contains a very large percentage of tar mixed with a small percentage of other and unknown ingredients
The method of procedure in the case of mending car floors and sides is to place a considerable quantity of “Baco” over a fire to reduce it from a lumpy stiff mass to a simmering ebony liquid in which state it is poured along the seams and tiny openings in the car floor to make the car grain proof. The loss in grain leakage in freight cars is said to be considerable, several bushels dropping out of a loaded car while in transportation." Michael Gross Pasadena, CA |
||||
|
|
||||
|
At first I thought this was a joke! "tar mixed with a small percentage of other and unknown ingredients" !! I wonder whether it might have stuck to some of the grain itself. Ah the good old days. Tim O' Thought members would enjoy this interesting excerpt from the Fort Madison, Iowa Evening Democrat - December 18, 1919 |
||||
|
|
||||
|
destorzek@...
---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote : At first I thought this was a joke! "tar mixed with a small percentage of other and unknown ingredients" !! I wonder whether it might have stuck to some of the grain itself. Ah the good old days. Tim O' ===================== I think the key is the part where they say the material has to be heated to flow. It's likely a glassy non-sticky solid when it cools. Anyway, we don't eat grain, horses eat grain. We eat flour. The tar would come off with the chaff. Dennis Storzek |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Tony Thompson
Um, we eat rice (and sometimes rice flour, too, to be sure). And it's a grain. Tony Thompson |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
Tony, you seem to forget that white rice (the most common type found in the US) also has a coat which often is milled off before it is consumed (of course, brown rice is rice that is not milled... but until recently it's consumption by humans was relatively uncommon.) Bill Daniels San Francisco, CA On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:06 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:
Um, we eat rice (and sometimes rice flour, too, to be sure). And it's a grain. |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Tony Thompson
Bill Daniels wrote:
Bil, contrary to what you apparently think, rice is a grain whether or not it is milled. I I will paste in below the definition of "grain" provided by Wikipedia. Not also that legumes are considered grains, though I didn't mention them. Grains are small, hard, dry seeds, with or without attached hulls or fruit layers, harvested for human or animal consumption.[1] "Grain crops" are grain seed producing plants. The two main types of commercial grain crops are cereals (wheat, rye) and legumes (beans, soybeans). Feel free to follow any of the links if you wish to learn more. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
||||
|
|
||||
|
destorzek@...
---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :
Um, we eat rice (and sometimes rice flour, too, to be sure). And it's a grain. Tony Thompson ======================= I thought in the U.S. rice was reserved for making bad beer (ducking for cover :-) Dennis Storzek |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Dave Parker
Tony: This is why you need to fact-check Wikipedia. From a more authoritative source (link below): Oilseeds and legumes (such as flax, chia, sunflower seeds, soy, chickpeas, etc.) are not considered whole grains by the WGC, the AACC International, or the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Several dictionaries MOL agree in that the strictest definition of a grain is the seed of one the cereal grasses
Dave Parker Riverside, CA On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:38 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote: Bill Daniels wrote:
Bil, contrary to what you apparently think, rice is a grain whether or not it is milled. I I will paste in below the definition of "grain" provided by Wikipedia. Not also that legumes are considered grains, though I didn't mention them. Grains are small, hard, dry seeds, with or without attached hulls or fruit layers, harvested for human or animal consumption.[1] "Grain crops" are grain seed producing plants. The two main types of commercial grain crops are cereals (wheat, rye) and legumes (beans, soybeans). Feel free to follow any of the links if you wish to learn more. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Tony Thompson
Dennis Storzek wrote:
There is a big company that uses rice to make a thin beverage, but many of us do not consider it beer. Tony Thompson |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Tony Thompson
Dave Parker wrote:
Um, rice is a cereal grain. The rice plant is a grass species. That was my original comment. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Dave Parker
Absolutely no quibble there; rice is as grainy as it gets. It's Wikipedia's inclusion of the legumes that doesn't pass muster. Dave Parker Riverside, CA On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 7:45 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote: Dave Parker wrote:
Um, rice is a cereal grain. The rice plant is a grass species. That was my original comment. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Dave Parker
Tony wrote: There is a big company that uses rice to make a thin beverage, but many of us do not consider it beer. Well said, but there are many companies that use what are called adjuncts in the brewing of "beer". An adjunct is any source of fermentables that is not malted barley (or wheat or rye). Rice is particularly prevalent in beers brewed to the west of California, but my sense is that corn is just as (perhaps more) common in U.S. lagers from the large macrobreweries. The Germans have traditionally been rather stuffy about the use of adjuncts, with various iterations of their Reinheitsgebot (purity regulations) dating back to the 16th century. Traditionally, to be called beer in Germany, the only ingredients allowed are malt, hops, water, and yeast. Actually, many very good beers contain adjuncts, often some form of table sugar (sucrose). FBOFW, these additions increase the alcohol content without making the beer too heavy. Examples include many Belgian ales and even some "big" American IPAs. And, as a rule, these adjuncts were and often still are transported in FREIGHT CARS. Dave Parker Riverside, CA (who used to brew beer before model railroading took over his entire life) On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:39 PM, "Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC]" Absolutely no quibble there; rice is as grainy as it gets. It's Wikipedia's inclusion of the legumes that doesn't pass muster. Dave Parker Riverside, CA On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 7:45 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote: Dave Parker wrote:
Um, rice is a cereal grain. The rice plant is a grass species. That was my original comment. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
||||
|
|
||||
|
billinsf@...
Tony, in reviewing my previous comment, I have to say that I NEVER said rice wasn't a grain. All I was saying was that rice, like most other grains, has a seed coat that is often removed by milling.
Bill Daniels |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Brian Termunde
Dave,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
When you say "west of California", do you mean Hawaii, Guam, PI, Japan or maybe China? Or further west? Take Care,
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC To: STMFC Sent: Wed, Oct 4, 2017 6:39 pm Subject: [STMFC] Digest Number 11176 Messages ________________________________________________________________________ 2a. Re: Box Car Crack Filler For Grain Transport
Posted by: "Dave Parker" spottab@... spottab Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 7:56 am ((PDT)) Tony wrote:There is a big company that uses rice to make a thin beverage, but many of us do not consider it beer. Well said, but there are many companies that use what are called adjuncts in the brewing of "beer". An adjunct is any source of fermentables that is not malted barley (or wheat or rye). Rice is particularly prevalent in beers brewed to the west of California, but my sense is that corn is just as (perhaps more) common in U.S. lagers from the large macrobreweries. The Germans have traditionally been rather stuffy about the use of adjuncts, with various iterations of their Reinheitsgebot (purity regulations) dating back to the 16th century. Traditionally, to be called beer in Germany, the only ingredients allowed are malt, hops, water, and yeast. Actually, many very good beers contain adjuncts, often some form of table sugar (sucrose). FBOFW, these additions increase the alcohol content without making the beer too heavy. Examples include many Belgian ales and even some "big" American IPAs. And, as a rule, these adjuncts were and often still are transported in FREIGHT CARS. Dave ParkerRiverside, CA(who used to brew beer before model railroading took over his entire life) |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Dave Parker
Brian: I was thinking specifically about the Land of the Rising Sun, and its ubiquitous and insipid Sapporo. But there are many similar "rice lagers" from that part of the world, none of them measurably better (IMO). BTW, I don't share your disdain for all Utah beer. Uinta makes a couple of IPAs that I am rather fond of, although the double Detour is something of a head-kicker. An of course, back in the day, beer was commonly transported in colorful refrigerator cars (obligatory stay-out-of-jail sentence). Dave Parker Riverside, CA On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:40 PM, "Brian Termunde GCRDS@... [STMFC]" wrote: Dave,
When you say "west of California", do you mean Hawaii, Guam, PI, Japan or maybe China? Or further west? Take Care,
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC To: STMFC Sent: Wed, Oct 4, 2017 6:39 pm Subject: [STMFC] Digest Number 11176 Messages ________________________________________________________________________ 2a. Re: Box Car Crack Filler For Grain Transport
Posted by: "Dave Parker" spottab@... spottab Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 7:56 am ((PDT)) Tony wrote:There is a big company that uses rice to make a thin beverage, but many of us do not consider it beer. Well said, but there are many companies that use what are called adjuncts in the brewing of "beer". An adjunct is any source of fermentables that is not malted barley (or wheat or rye). Rice is particularly prevalent in beers brewed to the west of California, but my sense is that corn is just as (perhaps more) common in U.S. lagers from the large macrobreweries. The Germans have traditionally been rather stuffy about the use of adjuncts, with various iterations of their Reinheitsgebot (purity regulations) dating back to the 16th century. Traditionally, to be called beer in Germany, the only ingredients allowed are malt, hops, water, and yeast. Actually, many very good beers contain adjuncts, often some form of table sugar (sucrose). FBOFW, these additions increase the alcohol content without making the beer too heavy. Examples include many Belgian ales and even some "big" American IPAs. And, as a rule, these adjuncts were and often still are transported in FREIGHT CARS. Dave ParkerRiverside, CA(who used to brew beer before model railroading took over his entire life) |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Alaska and parts of Washington are further west than the furthest west extent of California. What any of this has to do with freight cars, only the Sheriff can say. I think beer may have travelled in steam era freight cars to Alaska. Tim O' When you say "west of California", do you mean Hawaii, Guam, PI, Japan or maybe China? Or further west? |
||||
|
|
||||
|
Nelson Moyer
Actually, it went by boat in the 1950s and earlier, but I was too young to imbibe when I lived in Alaska.
Nelson Moyer
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 11:16 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Box Car Crack Filler For Grain Transport
|
||||
|
|
||||
|
Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
So is part of Oregon, such as the deep water port of Coos Bay, the railroad line to which was part of the Southern Pacific system in the Steam Era. I imagine most of the freight cars on it then were flat cars or boxcars with lumber doors in their ends. Perhaps some refrigerator cars for seafood shipping. On Oct 4, 2017 21:15, "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
|
||||
|
|
||||
|
np328
I had mentioned the following before, perhaps not on this list. Seafood shipping is where refrigerators went to die, not unlike hide cars in the same manner. I have a copy of a letter (somewhere in the pile of research data spread about the house) that an officer of the (my studied) railroad stated "refrigerator cars, once used for the shipment of fish, are unsuitable for any other commodity". Not unlike the fish impregnated Styrofoam coolers that people state innocently "Oh, I've got a cooler you can have, for free". How did my railroad keep this usage in check? A number series sufficient to handle said fish trade was transferred out of general (reefer) usage and into the fish/seafood trade. .......... I need to find my file on a product with brochure not unlike what Michael posted that was sprayed in boxcars/other railroad car interiors to bring this string back on track (no pun intended) as it seems to be veering a bit off the subject line. Not that I as a person of German heritage, I dislike the discussion of beer. Jim Dick |
||||
|
|
||||
|
np328
On October 2, Michael Gross started the string: Box Car Crack Filler For Grain Transport in which mention was made of tar to fill cracks in cars (coopering of a form). In addition, some time back my brother Brian found some correspondence about warm freshly milled floor being loaded into cool (from the overnight air) and the moisture of the flour condensing on the roofs of the cars and then dripping down back onto the grain rendering it unfit for human consumption. Those posts are somewhere back in files years past. I have just uploaded a folder titled Dednox brochure. Anyway, the product that the brochure touts is called Dednox, and one of the qualities of this tar/cork product which can be sprayed to apply is that it claims to prevent such sweating of car interiors. It was found in the Northern Pacific Company files located at the Minnesota Historical Society, St. Paul, MN. I found it while researching and it was just one of those things that I found interesting and cannot explain why I otherwise would have shot photos of the brochure. Perhaps I found it postdate when my brother located the above correspondence. Of the file I found at the MHS and in other NP Mechanical Dept. files found there also; for some time the NP must have really liked this stuff as it was applied to several thousand of the NP’s newly built boxcars as part of the build process. Other railroads must have liked it also as in the brochure use on 200,000 cars is claimed. Note that it can be used on open and covered hoppers. Of special note is photo 4, which shows its use on the exterior end of NRC 18364 and on the roof surfaces of a car build date 3-46. There are NP reefers of around this build date however the obscured end stencil does not readily allow for positive ID. However, note the granular surface around and on the roof hatch when the photo is enlarged. In the past this group has talked about roof surface textures. This product could be what otherwise looked to be anything from really heavy weathering to blistering paint and spurred those conversations. The photo caption (lower) mentions "natural red slate granules" applied. To bring this full circle, the brochure notes an “estimated 50 year life cycle”. Real life was a bit different as the NP and Omaha traded notes that the compound was breaking loose earlier than 50 years and dropping into loads and otherwise contaminating what it was to protect. Causing them to be rejected just as the earlier interior sweating caused. Ending the of use of this product on the NP and perhaps other roads in the mid to late 50s well within this lists time frame. Jim Dick – Roseville, MN |
||||
|
|