Removable loads in freight cars - stupid question


Richard Stern
 

I am reporting having done something dumb.  I’ve got a number of Caswell gondolas with removable loads of gravel.  Problem is I have to lift the car off the tracks and turn it over to drop the load out.  I was looking for a way to make the loads magnetic and glued some supermagnets to the underside of the load, planning to use a large arch magnet to pull them out. 

 

And of course, I discovered that the magnets under the load were highly attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car.  Meaning that when I used the arch magnet it lifted the entire car off the track.  And pulling the load out of the car became much more difficult than before, since it was held by the steel weight.  All of which should have been foreseeable and makes me feel really dummmbbb. 

 

So I’m looking for some solutions.  How do you remove a solid cast sand/gravel/coal type load from a gondola without taking the car off the tracks?  Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?  Some other sort of magnetic force?  Spudgers inserted around the edges of the load?  Other? 

 

Thanks

Rick


Charles Peck
 

The solution as I see it is to put non-magnetized iron in the load then use a handheld magnet'
to remove the load.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 11:29 PM, 'Richard Stern' rjs8@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I am reporting having done something dumb.  I’ve got a number of Caswell gondolas with removable loads of gravel.  Problem is I have to lift the car off the tracks and turn it over to drop the load out.  I was looking for a way to make the loads magnetic and glued some supermagnets to the underside of the load, planning to use a large arch magnet to pull them out. 

 

And of course, I discovered that the magnets under the load were highly attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car.  Meaning that when I used the arch magnet it lifted the entire car off the track.  And pulling the load out of the car became much more difficult than before, since it was held by the steel weight.  All of which should have been foreseeable and makes me feel really dummmbbb. 

 

So I’m looking for some solutions.  How do you remove a solid cast sand/gravel/coal type load from a gondola without taking the car off the tracks?  Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?  Some other sort of magnetic force?  Spudgers inserted around the edges of the load?  Other? 

 

Thanks

Rick



Tim O'Connor
 

I'm in favor of mechanical methods - a tiny hole or two into which you can insert
a wire or hook of some kind and pull the load out. Or I slide a very thin blade between
the load and the car side and pry it out that way.

Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?


Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <lnnrr152@...> wrote :

The solution as I see it is to put non-magnetized iron in the load then use a handheld magnet'
to remove the load.
===============

Yeah, you don't need a magnet to be attracted to another magnet, a couple steel hex nuts will do. The Accurail "Magnetic" coal loads use a pair of 1/4" diameter ball bearings.

One potential problem with existing loads is if you can't get the steel close to the surface, you'll need a more powerful magnet to pick them out. If you use a rare earth magnet for the pick-up magnet, it may well pick up the car by the car weight, simply because the car weight is a larger target. Try and dig a couple holes in the bottom of the load (I assume the base of the load is foam) to move the steel closer to the surface.

Dennis Storzek


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 12/10/2017 8:34 PM, Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC] wrote:
attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car

    Too late now but for the future, eliminate the steel weight and use sheet lead in new cars you build..

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Rod Miller
 

On 12/10/17 8:29 PM, 'Richard Stern' rjs8@cinci.rr.com [STMFC] wrote:
I am reporting having done something dumb.� I�ve got a number of Caswell gondolas with removable loads of gravel.� Problem is I have to lift the car off the tracks and turn it over to drop the load out.� I was looking for a way to make the loads magnetic and glued some supermagnets to the underside of the load, planning to use a large arch magnet to pull them out.
And of course, I discovered that the magnets under the load were highly attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car.� Meaning that when I used the arch magnet it lifted the entire car off the track.� And pulling the load out of the car became much more difficult than before, since it was held by the steel weight.� All of which should have been foreseeable and makes me feel really dummmbbb.
So I�m looking for some solutions.� How do you remove a solid cast sand/gravel/coal type load from a gondola without taking the car off the tracks?� Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?� Some other sort of magnetic force?� Spudgers inserted around the edges of the load?� Other?
Thanks
Rick
I have several ore loads for my SP GS gons. Extruded foam is
cut to fit loosely in the car, then shaped for the top profile,
painted, and covered with
the load material. Do not make the depth of the foam such that
it sits on the floor of the car, you want to glue strips about
1/4 way from the end to raise the load as needed. Then to remove
the load, just push down on one end. It will pivot on the strips
and tilt up allowing you to grab it and remove it.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2018 Meet is May 24 - 26
http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com


Rod Miller
 

On 12/11/17 9:44 AM, Rod Miller rod@rodmiller.com [STMFC] wrote:
On 12/10/17 8:29 PM, 'Richard Stern' rjs8@cinci.rr.com [STMFC] wrote:


I am reporting having done something dumb.� I�ve got a number of Caswell
gondolas with removable loads of gravel.� Problem is I have to lift the car off
the tracks and turn it over to drop the load out.� I was looking for a way to
make the loads magnetic and glued some supermagnets to the underside of the
load, planning to use a large arch magnet to pull them out.

And of course, I discovered that the magnets under the load were highly
attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car.� Meaning that when I
used the arch magnet it lifted the entire car off the track.� And pulling the
load out of the car became much more difficult than before, since it was held by
the steel weight.� All of which should have been foreseeable and makes me feel
really dummmbbb.

So I�m looking for some solutions.� How do you remove a solid cast
sand/gravel/coal type load from a gondola without taking the car off the
tracks?� Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?� Some other sort of
magnetic force?� Spudgers inserted around the edges of the load?� Other?

Thanks

Rick
I have several ore loads for my SP GS gons. Extruded foam is
cut to fit loosely in the car, then shaped for the top profile,
painted, and covered with
the load material. Do not make the depth of the foam such that
it sits on the floor of the car, you want to glue strips about
1/4 way from the end to raise the load as needed. Then to remove
the load, just push down on one end. It will pivot on the strips
and tilt up allowing you to grab it and remove it.
Forgot to point out that the strips have to be placed laterally
to the load. I uploaded photos to my website. The modeling is
2-rail O scale. See:

www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load1.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load2.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load3.jpg

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2018 Meet is May 24 - 26
http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com


Bryian Sones
 

There are lots of ways to do it, Some of the most common ways to do it is to:
1) Make sure the load can be removed without any resistance
2) Insert/glue a metal object in the middle of the load such as a scrap piece of metal, nut, washer, nail etc.
3) camouflage the metal insert so it is not noticeable to the eye and it blends in with your load.  
4) locate a neodymium magnet. These are strong magnets. You can find these magnets on Ebay, There are some seller that sell them with a ring loop handle (They look like an old gag buzzer ring) Use this to remove your loads. You can use whatever magnet setup you want. I just like these because they look cool and you wont loose it or drop it because it is attached to your finger with the ring loop.


Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA 


On Monday, December 11, 2017 10:31 AM, "Rod Miller rod@... [STMFC]" wrote:


On 12/11/17 9:44 AM, Rod Miller rod@... [STMFC] wrote:
> On 12/10/17 8:29 PM, 'Richard Stern' rjs8@... [STMFC] wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am reporting having done something dumb.  I’ve got a number of Caswell
>> gondolas with removable loads of gravel.  Problem is I have to lift the car off
>> the tracks and turn it over to drop the load out.  I was looking for a way to
>> make the loads magnetic and glued some supermagnets to the underside of the
>> load, planning to use a large arch magnet to pull them out.
>>
>> And of course, I discovered that the magnets under the load were highly
>> attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car.  Meaning that when I
>> used the arch magnet it lifted the entire car off the track.  And pulling the
>> load out of the car became much more difficult than before, since it was held by
>> the steel weight.  All of which should have been foreseeable and makes me feel
>> really dummmbbb.
>>
>> So I’m looking for some solutions.  How do you remove a solid cast
>> sand/gravel/coal type load from a gondola without taking the car off the
>> tracks?  Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?  Some other sort of
>> magnetic force?  Spudgers inserted around the edges of the load?  Other?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rick
>
> I have several ore loads for my SP GS gons. Extruded foam is
> cut to fit loosely in the car, then shaped for the top profile,
> painted, and covered with
> the load material. Do not make the depth of the foam such that
> it sits on the floor of the car, you want to glue strips about
> 1/4 way from the end to raise the load as needed. Then to remove
> the load, just push down on one end. It will pivot on the strips
> and tilt up allowing you to grab it and remove it.
>

Forgot to point out that the strips have to be placed laterally
to the load. I uploaded photos to my website. The modeling is
2-rail O scale. See:

www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load1.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load2.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load3.jpg


--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,  |  O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More    |  2018 Meet is May 24 - 26
http://www.rodmiller.com               |  http://www.oscalewest.com


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Bryian Sones
 

On Monday, December 11, 2017 11:59 AM, "Bryian Sones bryian.sones@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
There are lots of ways to do it, Some of the most common ways to do it is to:
1) Make sure the load can be removed without any resistance
2) Insert/glue a metal object in the middle of the load such as a scrap piece of metal, nut, washer, nail etc.
3) camouflage the metal insert so it is not noticeable to the eye and it blends in with your load.  
4) locate a neodymium magnet. These are strong magnets. You can find these magnets on Ebay, There are some seller that sell them with a ring loop handle (They look like an old gag buzzer ring) Use this to remove your loads. You can use whatever magnet setup you want. I just like these because they look cool and you wont loose it or drop it because it is attached to your finger with the ring loop.


Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA 


On Monday, December 11, 2017 10:31 AM, "Rod Miller rod@... [STMFC]" wrote:


On 12/11/17 9:44 AM, Rod Miller rod@... [STMFC] wrote:
> On 12/10/17 8:29 PM, 'Richard Stern' rjs8@... [STMFC] wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am reporting having done something dumb.  I’ve got a number of Caswell
>> gondolas with removable loads of gravel.  Problem is I have to lift the car off
>> the tracks and turn it over to drop the load out.  I was looking for a way to
>> make the loads magnetic and glued some supermagnets to the underside of the
>> load, planning to use a large arch magnet to pull them out.
>>
>> And of course, I discovered that the magnets under the load were highly
>> attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car.  Meaning that when I
>> used the arch magnet it lifted the entire car off the track.  And pulling the
>> load out of the car became much more difficult than before, since it was held by
>> the steel weight.  All of which should have been foreseeable and makes me feel
>> really dummmbbb.
>>
>> So I’m looking for some solutions.  How do you remove a solid cast
>> sand/gravel/coal type load from a gondola without taking the car off the
>> tracks?  Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?  Some other sort of
>> magnetic force?  Spudgers inserted around the edges of the load?  Other?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rick
>
> I have several ore loads for my SP GS gons. Extruded foam is
> cut to fit loosely in the car, then shaped for the top profile,
> painted, and covered with
> the load material. Do not make the depth of the foam such that
> it sits on the floor of the car, you want to glue strips about
> 1/4 way from the end to raise the load as needed. Then to remove
> the load, just push down on one end. It will pivot on the strips
> and tilt up allowing you to grab it and remove it.
>

Forgot to point out that the strips have to be placed laterally
to the load. I uploaded photos to my website. The modeling is
2-rail O scale. See:

www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load1.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load2.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load3.jpg


--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,  |  O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More    |  2018 Meet is May 24 - 26
http://www.rodmiller.com               |  http://www.oscalewest.com


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Bryian Sones
 

That link was the first one I came to so it maybe too powerful but you get the idea of what they look like. They are fishing magnets. You can find less powerful samples elsewhere on ebay.

Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Monday, December 11, 2017 12:06 PM, "Bryian Sones bryian.sones@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 




On Monday, December 11, 2017 11:59 AM, "Bryian Sones bryian.sones@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
There are lots of ways to do it, Some of the most common ways to do it is to:
1) Make sure the load can be removed without any resistance
2) Insert/glue a metal object in the middle of the load such as a scrap piece of metal, nut, washer, nail etc.
3) camouflage the metal insert so it is not noticeable to the eye and it blends in with your load.  
4) locate a neodymium magnet. These are strong magnets. You can find these magnets on Ebay, There are some seller that sell them with a ring loop handle (They look like an old gag buzzer ring) Use this to remove your loads. You can use whatever magnet setup you want. I just like these because they look cool and you wont loose it or drop it because it is attached to your finger with the ring loop.


Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA 


On Monday, December 11, 2017 10:31 AM, "Rod Miller rod@... [STMFC]" wrote:


On 12/11/17 9:44 AM, Rod Miller rod@... [STMFC] wrote:
> On 12/10/17 8:29 PM, 'Richard Stern' rjs8@... [STMFC] wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am reporting having done something dumb.  I’ve got a number of Caswell
>> gondolas with removable loads of gravel.  Problem is I have to lift the car off
>> the tracks and turn it over to drop the load out.  I was looking for a way to
>> make the loads magnetic and glued some supermagnets to the underside of the
>> load, planning to use a large arch magnet to pull them out.
>>
>> And of course, I discovered that the magnets under the load were highly
>> attracted to the steel weights in the bottom of the car.  Meaning that when I
>> used the arch magnet it lifted the entire car off the track.  And pulling the
>> load out of the car became much more difficult than before, since it was held by
>> the steel weight.  All of which should have been foreseeable and makes me feel
>> really dummmbbb.
>>
>> So I’m looking for some solutions.  How do you remove a solid cast
>> sand/gravel/coal type load from a gondola without taking the car off the
>> tracks?  Small wires embedded in the load to grab on to?  Some other sort of
>> magnetic force?  Spudgers inserted around the edges of the load?  Other?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rick
>
> I have several ore loads for my SP GS gons. Extruded foam is
> cut to fit loosely in the car, then shaped for the top profile,
> painted, and covered with
> the load material. Do not make the depth of the foam such that
> it sits on the floor of the car, you want to glue strips about
> 1/4 way from the end to raise the load as needed. Then to remove
> the load, just push down on one end. It will pivot on the strips
> and tilt up allowing you to grab it and remove it.
>

Forgot to point out that the strips have to be placed laterally
to the load. I uploaded photos to my website. The modeling is
2-rail O scale. See:

www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load1.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load2.jpg
www.rodmiller.com/images/GS_gon_load3.jpg


--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,  |  O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More    |  2018 Meet is May 24 - 26
http://www.rodmiller.com               |  http://www.oscalewest.com


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spsalso
 

Using a STRONGER magnet helps HOW?

Maybe you can lift up the car AND the two adjacent?


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Bryian Sones
 

Umm Ed,
I never implied that a stronger magnet made a difference. I just stated neodymium magnets are stronger magnets that's all. However, they could be better at pulling the load up if you are try to camouflage the metal insert.



Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta , CA. 


On Monday, December 11, 2017 1:10 PM, "Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Using a STRONGER magnet helps HOW?

Maybe you can lift up the car AND the two adjacent?


Ed

Edward Sutorik



frograbbit602
 

I do not use magnets for removable loads. On all my loads: coal, scrap, gravel, etc., I like to have a small hole at the corner of the load. The hole allows me to remove the loads with a dental pick that has a hook on the end which is inserted in the load hole to lift the load out of a car. Rather than a dental tool, a wire could be bent to have a hook and inserted into a handle such as a wood dowel. I have used this method for load removal for years with no frustration.

If you really prefer the magnet, some operators use metal washers purchased at the local hardware store and glue them to the bottom of the loads to allow magnet removal.
Lester Breuer


 

Hi Rick,

  I use the wire hook method. Yep... old school... but simple and cost effective. I use floral wire off a spool.  I drill a hole through the load... insert wire and bend to a hook or "u" shape... pull wire so it touches the load... nip off the bottom leaving about an inch of wire... bend and super glue to underside of load. Heavily spray paint the top of the load to match the type of load and coat... with gravel in your case. The hook is nearly invisible. I use bamboo skewers to uncouple my cars so these are readily available on the layout and work great to lift out the removable loads. So far none of my operators have noticed the wire hooks or found them intrusive.

Gordon Spalty
   


Jared Harper
 

My solution is live loads.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Tony Thompson
 

Lester Breuer wrote:

 

I do not use magnets for removable loads. On all my loads: coal, scrap, gravel, etc., I like to have a small hole at the corner of the load. The hole allows me to remove the loads with a dental pick that has a hook on the end which is inserted in the load hole to lift the load out of a car. Rather than a dental tool, a wire could be bent to have a hook and inserted into a handle such as a wood dowel. I have used this method for load removal for years with no frustration.


     I use exactly this method. Small edge or corner holes are invisible.


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
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